To defend myself, do I need to carry a weapon?

[Christian Soldier]

I've seen some vids of peper spray used and it's not pretty. It's still neccesary to learn empty hand to compliment whatever you use, but as far as real weapons you can carry, pepper spray looks good in court. Nothing is ever 100% guranteed in street fighting. Expect the unexpected and have a back up plan and a back up plan to the back up plan. If you can't just run, peper spray is a good option B, if that doesn't work, move on to whatever is your option C or D.

 

[Cyriacus]

I've seen some vids of peper spray used and it's not pretty. It's still neccesary to learn empty hand to compliment whatever you use, but as far as real weapons you can carry, pepper spray looks good in court. Nothing is ever 100% guranteed in street fighting. Expect the unexpected and have a back up plan and a back up plan to the back up plan. If you can't just run, peper spray is a good option B, if that doesn't work, move on to whatever is your option C or D.

But do you really want to rely on producing a pepper spray canister, then successfully spraying it into someones eyes before they can do anything at all to you, and have faith in it completely incapacitating them? Tis the same reason I dont trust strikes to the groin.

 

[Instructor]

A layered defense seems logical, if the pepper spray fails switch to martial arts or perhaps a tazer. If that fails we always have the handgun solution. Frankly the environments I live and work in simply don't require this kind of thinking.

As for me I would rather sort it out rapidly but not lethaly if possible. The longer the fight goes on the greater the chance I could lose.

 

[Cyriacus]

A layered defense seems logical, if the pepper spray fails switch to martial arts or perhaps a tazer. If that fails we always have the handgun solution. Frankly the environments I live and work in simply don't require this kind of thinking.

As for me I would rather sort it out rapidly but not lethaly if possible. The longer the fight goes on the greater the chance I could lose.

Again: Someone is physically assaulting You, RIGHT NOW. So, Your steps are:
Step 1; See if theres a way to escape.
Step 2; Take out Pepper Spray, aim it at the eyes, spray, somehow actually hit the eyes, and then hope it did something.
Step 3; Take out Tazer or switch to Martial Arts.
Step 4; If Step 3 fails, produce a handgun, chamber a round, raise and fire.

All whilst someone is physically assaulting You? No thanks

 

[jks9199]

I've seen some vids of peper spray used and it's not pretty. It's still neccesary to learn empty hand to compliment whatever you use, but as far as real weapons you can carry, pepper spray looks good in court. Nothing is ever 100% guranteed in street fighting. Expect the unexpected and have a back up plan and a back up plan to the back up plan. If you can't just run, peper spray is a good option B, if that doesn't work, move on to whatever is your option C or D.

Have you actually used OC? Have you been exposed to it? Fought through the exposure?

As nasty as it is when you're exposed in a training scenario, in the real world? It doesn't work worth a damn. It works best on fellow cops. If the bad guy is pissed off and drunk or high? He may not notice. One of my partners dumped an entire large can on a guy in a fight. The guy didn't notice until about 30 or 40 minutes later. When he'd been cuffed, stuffed and was in the back of a cruiser. (Sweating enough to reactivate some of it despite decontamination...)

 

[Marcy Shoberg]

I fear that by the time I have finished reading all of these other great posts I am too tired to formulate a good thought. I'll try, though.

Any weapon carried for self defense would be most effective if it also detered a predator from choosing you as a victim. That's the problem with knives and keys as a weapon: the predator doesn't know you have them at an early enough point. Carry a stick maybe? Umbrella?

In a territorial self defense situation, no weapon is necessary because by definition leaving will solve the problem.

In an accidental confrontation self defense situation, deescalation will solve the problem unless the other party doesn't listen to you. So in that case, a knife could be useful I guess, but I'm not sure it's more useful than empty handed strikes. A stick is certainly useful in that situation as well, but not as convenient to carry.

For the ambush situation where one has no idea if it is predatory or accidental confrontation, no weapon is likely to be easy enough to reach.

Pepper spray can be a deterrent as well as a weapon for a predatory or accidental confrontation situation (but is unreliable as a weapon as others have mentioned).

I see quite a few other problems with knives as self-defense weapons. It has always seemed to me that they just help a person do more permanent damage to the attacker and wouldn't actually end the attack any quicker than palm strikes to the head and knees to the groin. Also, if weapons are held by both parties, stick beats knife, and gun beats knife, and bigger knife beats smaller knife.

I think a legally concealed handgun would be better than body weapons in many situations, though (long distance, good deterrant if there is time to display, beats other weapons).

Goodnight all.

 

[Cyriacus]

I fear that by the time I have finished reading all of these other great posts I am too tired to formulate a good thought. I'll try, though.

Any weapon carried for self defense would be most effective if it also detered a predator from choosing you as a victim. That's the problem with knives and keys as a weapon: the predator doesn't know you have them at an early enough point. Carry a stick maybe? Umbrella?

In a territorial self defense situation, no weapon is necessary because by definition leaving will solve the problem.

In an accidental confrontation self defense situation, deescalation will solve the problem unless the other party doesn't listen to you. So in that case, a knife could be useful I guess, but I'm not sure it's more useful than empty handed strikes. A stick is certainly useful in that situation as well, but not as convenient to carry.

For the ambush situation where one has no idea if it is predatory or accidental confrontation, no weapon is likely to be easy enough to reach.

Pepper spray can be a deterrent as well as a weapon for a predatory or accidental confrontation situation (but is unreliable as a weapon as others have mentioned).

I see quite a few other problems with knives as self-defense weapons. It has always seemed to me that they just help a person do more permanent damage to the attacker and wouldn't actually end the attack any quicker than palm strikes to the head and knees to the groin. Also, if weapons are held by both parties, stick beats knife, and gun beats knife, and bigger knife beats smaller knife.

I think a legally concealed handgun would be better than body weapons in many situations, though (long distance, good deterrant if there is time to display, beats other weapons).

Goodnight all.

Small details -

If your predator knows youre carrying a weapon, he will likely just take you from behind using a weapon of his own, or as a part of a group, nullifying its use.

Leaving doesnt always work - Some people just want to hurt you. You cant forget that.

In an accidental confrontation, a knife wont look good in court when hands would have worked fine.

In an ambush, nothing will help you.

Deterring someone whos ambushed you is a bit hard when theyve already ambushed you.

Stabs will do more damage than palms to the head and knees to the groin, i assure you - But it also tells the other person that you are now a danger to their life, and they will hurt you bad if they get the upper hand. Additionally, i wouldnt suggest relying on knees to the groin. Use them - swell - But dont rely on them. For your sake.
Stick beats knife in fighting - But being furiously shanked beats you in an attack, about as readily as being furiously bludgeoned with a stick. Guns arent going to save you if you cant produce, raise, and fire it before some lunatic with a knife whos going to be attacking you from, you know, furious shanking range, can do his thing. Same goes for knives. Youre not going to get into a 'weapon fight', youre going to be attacked by a person, whos using a weapon.

Now explain a situation other than if you are working as a security guard, or police officer, or soldier, in which you are going to be accosted from long range so that you can use it as a deterrent? Look at the training video above again. He uses himself to fend off the person who tries to snatch his handgun, backs off, THEN uses it. It wasnt the means to the end. It stopped things from going further. Does someone have that video of that guy doing reality based knife defense, where he proves a point by turning at one of the people attending, asking them in an aggressive tone what their problem is, then rushing him with the fake knife? Ill see if i can dig it up.

 

[Cyriacus]

 

[Marcy Shoberg]

Please don't think I take an argumentative tone. I think you made some great points. But, you asked . . .

Now explain a situation other than if you are working as a security guard, or police officer, or soldier, in which you are going to be accosted from long range so that you can use it as a deterrent?.

That is a very good question. Here are my thoughts at this time, but I plan to research it further soon by looking up reports of CCW holders thwarting attacks without firing and hear how they went down. I'll call my friend who teaches CC classes.

In your house someone breaking the door down to rush in
In a parking lot someone yelling at you and walking towards you who mistakes you for someone they want revenge on
In your office after you hear commotion in a neighboring office and look over to see an altercation
If you, as a bystander, are attempting to rescue a stranger who is being attacked

 

[Cyriacus]

Please don't think I take an argumentative tone. I think you made some great points. But, you asked . . .



That is a very good question. Here are my thoughts at this time, but I plan to research it further soon by looking up reports of CCW holders thwarting attacks without firing and hear how they went down. I'll call my friend who teaches CC classes.

In your house someone breaking the door down to rush in
In a parking lot someone yelling at you and walking towards you who mistakes you for someone they want revenge on
In your office after you hear commotion in a neighboring office and look over to see an altercation
If you, as a bystander, are attempting to rescue a stranger who is being attacked

I know youre not argumentative - We are merely discussing

In my house, i have alot of corners. If someone broke in here, theyd be in my face if they rounded a corner. We'd both be reacting on a twitch, and thats not a test id like to take, when i could quite reliably punch them in the head, rather than shoot them and kill them.

In the parking lot circumstance, thats correct. But the situation is highly unlikely.

So, youre working in an office. You hear a commotion, and go look over at it... Then You pull out a gun and tell everyone to calm down. Ehehe - I see what Youre getting at with the concept though. You say more or less the same thing, but in a more realistic scenario, in the next one.

There We go. Thats realistic enough. But does the possibility of being in a situation to rescue a stranger who is being attacked come up as often as being attacked with noone to help You, and does the possibility justify carrying a Firearm?

 

[Christian Soldier]

I stand corrected, my apologies. Mace will not be your best option. When it comes down to a real self defence situation there aren't really any good options besides leaving. There are definitely really bad options and options that are better than others, but there is a counter to pretty much everything and we can go on all day on those. Nothing is guranteed in a street fight.

Cyriacus, There are many situations where having a gun is your best option in a SD situation, in fact I'd say it's the majority. If you read the Armed Citizen in the Rifleman magazine you wil find about a dozen scenarios a month where common citezens with firearms where saved because they had firearms.

And heck yes, I think saving someone else is a great reason to carry a firearm. It's not like you are carrrying an IED, guns are perfectly legal in most areas of the U.S. after some paperwork.

I'm sure what you 'need' varies a little person to person, and a varies a lot per situation, but a gun covers a lot of those situations, and the others you can cover with your other SD training.

Do you need a weapon to defend yourself? That's for you to decide. But I think we can all agree you should definitely learn to defend yourself somehow.

 

[Cyriacus]

I stand corrected, my apologies. Mace will not be your best option. When it comes down to a real self defence situation there aren't really any good options besides leaving. There are definitely really bad options and options that are better than others, but there is a counter to pretty much everything and we can go on all day on those. Nothing is guranteed in a street fight.

Sadly, leaving isnt always possible.

Cyriacus, There are many situations where having a gun is your best option in a SD situation, in fact I'd say it's the majority. If you read the Armed Citizen in the Rifleman magazine you wil find about a dozen scenarios a month where common citezens with firearms where saved because they had firearms.

Of course. But what about all the situations in which a firearm would have been useless, or in which someone had a firearm and couldnt use it? Google "Man saves with martial arts" - And you will find, well, martial artists saving people. Look in a gun magazine, and of course, they will promote the benefits of guns based on the instances in which they succeed.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/gun-...om-beating-by-berlusconi-rioters-6547249.html
Was this in the magazine?

And heck yes, I think saving someone else is a great reason to carry a firearm. It's not like you are carrrying an IED, guns are perfectly legal in most areas of the U.S. after some paperwork.

Of course - But it really doesnt happen too often. Getting a gun in the hopes of saving another person could just end up being blown money.

I'm sure what you 'need' varies a little person to person, and a varies a lot per situation, but a gun covers a lot of those situations, and the others you can cover with your other SD training.

And of course, some circumstances would allow the use of a firearm. Namely, if you actually use unarmed methods first, THEN use the firearm to prevent it going further. I did say that above somewere.

Do you need a weapon to defend yourself? That's for you to decide. But I think we can all agree you should definitely learn to defend yourself somehow.

Yes We can

 

[Cyriacus]

I found the Video I was looking for.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Layered defence bro.
It's bettter to have a gun and not really need it, than to not have it and really need it.

That roman guy should have spent more time trainging and had a better 'layered defence'. "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat". Also, would not having a gun been better? I don't think so. 'Perhaps if he had just used his martial arts trainging against that angry mob he would have been better off', year right. This isn't the Matrix, sometimes in life you need an equalizer. This officer failed to properly take advantage of his equaizer and lost.

And no, it's just an American Magazine. So an Itialian policeman getting beaten wasn't mentioned.

Your self defence strategy should be like a parfait, with many layers and each one being a little different. I would suggest one of those layers include a firearm. If you don't want to carry one, that's fine. It's your choice, but don't discount the firearm as a viable self defence option for others.

 

[Cyriacus]

Layered defence bro.
It's bettter to have a gun and not really need it, than to not have it and really need it.

So I should have a Gun, a Knife, and a Bat at any given moment during the day? Along with a gas mask in case of thermonuclear war (Im kidding, now )

That roman guy should have spent more time trainging and had a better 'layered defence'. "The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in combat". Also, would not having a gun been better? I don't think so. 'Perhaps if he had just used his martial arts trainging against that angry mob he would have been better off', year right. This isn't the Matrix, sometimes in life you need an equalizer. This officer failed to properly take advantage of his equaizer and lost.

Oh, believe Me. I know it isnt the Matrix. Im saying Guns are harder to use in Close Combat than, say, a Knife, more than anything. A Knife is easier and faster to produce. It can come from any angle. It doesnt need to be prepared and fired. You can hit with it as You produce it. If You have time to get out a gun, You had time to get out a Knife.

And no, it's just an American Magazine. So an Itialian policeman getting beaten wasn't mentioned.

To be fair, I found that article from a random google.

Your self defence strategy should be like a parfait, with many layers and each one being a little different. I would suggest one of those layers include a firearm. If you don't want to carry one, that's fine. It's your choice, but don't discount the firearm as a viable self defence option for others.

Im not. But its much less viable for the ways Youre likely to be attacked as a method of direct defense.
Again, a great way to prevent a situation from going further after You beat it down a bit. Not such a great first choice given how close and fast most attacks tend to be. A great choice for when You have a chance to get it out first, or are interrupting someone else being assaulted.

Just to touch on the other side of things a bit, because Ive been a bit monotopical on talking about the downsides of Guns - A gun is a good tool. If You even just fire it at the ground, the noise could be enough to get an advantage, and run like buggery. If you ARE able to beat your foe back and produce the weapon, you can end the engagement right there. If you are intervening in an assault, you can use it. If you are able to run, then run into a dead end or some other impassible obstacle, a firearm could save you. But for a close range attack, with either a knife or empty hands, once it kicks off, youre best of using, well, a knife, stick, or empty hands to settle that part of it.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I think we kind of went in a circle there but at least now it's a very well informed circle for others to read and learn.

"It's better to have a gun and not really need it, than to not have it and really need it." Is pretty much the same concept I'd continue to repeat anyway.

I personally don't carry a firearm anyway (too young) but I absolutely support those who are willing to. Once again training can be a huge difference here. Guns are harder to use than knives period. But with the right trainging, having a gun can safe your life from even the most dire situations. If you are going to carry a gun, there are all sorts of defencive handgun courses around the country that I would highly recomend attending. Awareness should also be with you everywhere you go no matter if you are just carrying your empty hands or a full size pistol. It's good to have that extra time to react.

Ask Steve Zimmerman how far away you have to be from your attacker to shoot him.

I totaly agree, a gun is a tool and has applications where it is best suited. I'm pretty sure it's that way with everything though.

 

[billc]

Just as a point, a stick doesn't beat a knife as a rule. It can of course, but it takes a bit of effort to beat someone with a stick. If they are on drugs, they may not even notice the beating with the stick. I saw a video of a police officer at a traffic stop confronting two drunk guys. They assaulted him and he fought them with, I believe, a metal collapsable baton. He whacked on both of them and it didn't stop either one. True, he wasn't going for head shots, but if they had had a knife, he would have been dead.

 

[Carol]

So I should have a Gun, a Knife, and a Bat at any given moment during the day? Along with a gas mask in case of thermonuclear war (Im kidding, now )


Oh, believe Me. I know it isnt the Matrix. Im saying Guns are harder to use in Close Combat than, say, a Knife, more than anything. A Knife is easier and faster to produce. It can come from any angle. It doesnt need to be prepared and fired. You can hit with it as You produce it. If You have time to get out a gun, You had time to get out a Knife.


To be fair, I found that article from a random google.


Im not. But its much less viable for the ways Youre likely to be attacked as a method of direct defense.
Again, a great way to prevent a situation from going further after You beat it down a bit. Not such a great first choice given how close and fast most attacks tend to be. A great choice for when You have a chance to get it out first, or are interrupting someone else being assaulted.

Just to touch on the other side of things a bit, because Ive been a bit monotopical on talking about the downsides of Guns - A gun is a good tool. If You even just fire it at the ground, the noise could be enough to get an advantage, and run like buggery. If you ARE able to beat your foe back and produce the weapon, you can end the engagement right there. If you are intervening in an assault, you can use it. If you are able to run, then run into a dead end or some other impassible obstacle, a firearm could save you. But for a close range attack, with either a knife or empty hands, once it kicks off, youre best of using, well, a knife, stick, or empty hands to settle that part of it.

Which training taught you that firing warning shots is a good idea?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Cyriacus]

Which training taught you that firing warning shots is a good idea?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

It didnt. I was honestly reaching for any advantage to a firearm i could plausibly think of.

 

[chinto]

First NEVER EVER FIRE A WARNING SHOT!!! sure way in most states to go to prison! if its serious enough to fire you better be in enough fear to be shooting to kill!

Next, any weapon is an advantage, so is always a good thing. is it absolutely necessary? No. If you carry a weapon, from a walking stick to a .45 1911A1 be able to use the weapon competently and understand that the cops will be asking questions. please consult an attorney in your state or country and find out what the laws are on self defense and what they are about carry and use of any weapon! also check on city and county/provincial laws to! OC spray and tear gas are illegal in some counties and cities and even some country's I understand. but then so is caring even a small pocket knife...UK has some stupidly insane weapons laws for instance.