To defend myself, do I need to carry a weapon?

[Supra Vijai]

First NEVER EVER FIRE A WARNING SHOT!!! sure way in most states to go to prison! if its serious enough to fire you better be in enough fear to be shooting to kill!

Next, any weapon is an advantage, so is always a good thing. is it absolutely necessary? No. If you carry a weapon, from a walking stick to a .45 1911A1 be able to use the weapon competently and understand that the cops will be asking questions. please consult an attorney in your state or country and find out what the laws are on self defense and what they are about carry and use of any weapon! also check on city and county/provincial laws to! OC spray and tear gas are illegal in some counties and cities and even some country's I understand. but then so is caring even a small pocket knife...UK has some stupidly insane weapons laws for instance.

Well said Australia have extremely strict laws as well. From a logical point of view I can see why they came into force and overall for the vast majority of the population the laws have made no difference. We simply don't live in a culture where having a weapon is necessary or even practical. What this does mean for us is that a lot of weapons - guns in particular - are limited to the criminal fraternities and most people in the day to day lives never come across them. On the other side of the coin, sadly it does mean a lot of us are lacking on the specifics of the weapons or their uses. For instance, if you put a gun in my hand and told me to flip off the safety or release the magazine, I'm more likely to shoot myself in the foot turning the gun over like a rubiks cube than I am to know how to work the damn thing. Cyriacus is based in Australia as well and whilst I don't know if he has any history of living in the US, it does mean our understanding of the specific laws with regards to firearms will be a touch hazy at best.

All that said, as a martial artist, it's a total pain in the butt that I need to go through police checks and file a bajillion bits of paperwork in order to get even metal training weapons!

 

[Cyriacus]

First NEVER EVER FIRE A WARNING SHOT!!! sure way in most states to go to prison! if its serious enough to fire you better be in enough fear to be shooting to kill!

Next, any weapon is an advantage, so is always a good thing. is it absolutely necessary? No. If you carry a weapon, from a walking stick to a .45 1911A1 be able to use the weapon competently and understand that the cops will be asking questions. please consult an attorney in your state or country and find out what the laws are on self defense and what they are about carry and use of any weapon! also check on city and county/provincial laws to! OC spray and tear gas are illegal in some counties and cities and even some country's I understand. but then so is caring even a small pocket knife...UK has some stupidly insane weapons laws for instance.

Ill be sure not to clutch at straws in future trying to make firearms sound useful (Im quite serious, mind)

 

[Carol]

Good training eliminates misconceptions about firearms, and is also the best way to understand their safest use.

 

[Cyriacus]

Good training eliminates misconceptions about firearms, and is also the best way to understand their safest use.

I used to go to firing ranges all the time. I just lost interest after a while.
When I started training, I found that more often than not, anything thats anything happens up way too close to be dependant on Firearms. As Ive kinda been saying primarily, before I tried to sound less biased by scraping together praise - Praise that has been nullified by others, reassuring Me of My position on the matter

 

[stonewall1350]

Honestly...my personal method of self defense is between my ears. Keep alert, aware, and don't go somewhere I shouldn't. There is of course the old problem of being exactly where I should and someone else doing something they shouldn't. So of course my weapon is still between my ears. Eyes open and aware. Usually works. I do keep a 9mm on my hip for those bad days, and a shotgun in my home with 00 Buck in case anything hits the fan.

Do I need a weapon? Probably not. Do I keep them?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly

-David Hackworth

Yes.

PS:

Firearms ARE up close and personal weapons. I train extensively for the 3-6 foot range and rarely shoot past 5 yards except for fun (handguns...shotguns are my hunting implement as well so that is different). So just wanted to get that out there. I feel that deployment of a firearm in close range is easier than a stick or knife. But of course I train a lot.

 

[frank raud]

The others said it pretty well, you should be able to defend yourself with either. A knife or almost any weapon is just a way to level the playing field.

Hands down, for the average person, the best self defence weapon you can have is pepper spray. It looks good in court and it'll stop 90% of attackers, that other 10% you should just kick in the groin in addition to macing their face.

A weapon used for self defense should not be considered"just a way to level the playing field." A weapon is a force multiplier. What you want is something that gives you an advantage, if possible, not something that is equivalent.

 

[Cyriacus]

Honestly...my personal method of self defense is between my ears. Keep alert, aware, and don't go somewhere I shouldn't. There is of course the old problem of being exactly where I should and someone else doing something they shouldn't. So of course my weapon is still between my ears. Eyes open and aware. Usually works. I do keep a 9mm on my hip for those bad days, and a shotgun in my home with 00 Buck in case anything hits the fan.

Do I need a weapon? Probably not. Do I keep them?



-David Hackworth

Yes.

PS:

Firearms ARE up close and personal weapons. I train extensively for the 3-6 foot range and rarely shoot past 5 yards except for fun (handguns...shotguns are my hunting implement as well so that is different). So just wanted to get that out there. I feel that deployment of a firearm in close range is easier than a stick or knife. But of course I train a lot.

What about when the guy is 1-2 feet away, and punching Your face? You fight Him off, until You can Your firearm out at about the 3 foot range. To prevent the situation from going further.

 

[stonewall1350]

What about when the guy is 1-2 feet away, and punching Your face? You fight Him off, until You can Your firearm out at about the 3 foot range. To prevent the situation from going further.

Well I am merely saying that you cannot discount the firearm for close range. Acting as if close range is out of the wheelhouse of a firearm is unrealistic. Most shootings are at the 3-6 foot range. And of course I am not going to pull a knife or stick just so I can draw a gun.

I am sure you know all that about firearms. Part of proper firearms training for self defense is obviously the techniques to get to your gun. If someone is 1-2 feet from me and trying to punch me? I am going to be throwing knees, elbows, and trying to use my training to use a hip toss, or Osoto Gari (Judo/BJJ/JuJitsu) type moves. I am also not afraid to headbutt ....aim for the nose lol.

 

[Cyriacus]

Well I am merely saying that you cannot discount the firearm for close range. Acting as if close range is out of the wheelhouse of a firearm is unrealistic. Most shootings are at the 3-6 foot range. And of course I am not going to pull a knife or stick just so I can draw a gun.

Most shootings? Thats like saying that most stabbings come from in Your face.

I am sure you know all that about firearms. Part of proper firearms training for self defense is obviously the techniques to get to your gun. If someone is 1-2 feet from me and trying to punch me? I am going to be throwing knees, elbows, and trying to use my training to use a hip toss, or Osoto Gari (Judo/BJJ/JuJitsu) type moves. I am also not afraid to headbutt ....aim for the nose lol.

Exactly! Im not discounting Firearms, Im saying not to rely on the things

 

[Christian Soldier]

A weapon used for self defense should not be considered"just a way to level the playing field." A weapon is a force multiplier. What you want is something that gives you an advantage, if possible, not something that is equivalent.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I ment. Initally the odds are in your attackers favor, now they should be in yours.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plann your mission properly" - Ken Hackworth

Carrying a weapon can help ensure the fight isn't fair and that the odds are in your favor.

 

[Supra Vijai]

A weapon used for self defense should not be considered"just a way to level the playing field." A weapon is a force multiplier. What you want is something that gives you an advantage, if possible, not something that is equivalent.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I ment. Initally the odds are in your attackers favor, now they should be in yours.

"If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plann your mission properly" - Ken Hackworth

Carrying a weapon can help ensure the fight isn't fair and that the odds are in your favor.

What both you guys are describing sounds great on paper (well, a monitor) however that attitude can very quickly drive any situation from defense, which is what this thread is about, to assault or in extreme cases, manslaughter.

In a SD situation, a weapon or an object IMO should be picked up to act as an equalizer at it's base level and if it offers advantages, then great! Level the playing field as you put it Frank. If an attacker has a stick and you pick up a gun and use it, it's no longer appropriate force and therefore no longer within the realm of self defense. If the attacker is coming at you with a knife and you pick up a bat or a stick - either of which is a force multiplier and gives you a reach advantage - and break their arm with it or drop them to the ground and the fight ends there, then great. You acted to protect yourself and did what had to be done. If however, you disarm them and then keep hitting them or take them to ground and keep hitting them, you are now the one committing a felony. Yeah sure they instigated things but you took it to a whole new level. Keep in mind, I'm not saying you as in you guys personally, just referring to anyone in that situation. There is a reason even though police officers are given guns, they don't draw them, let alone shoot them in every situation. Everything must be taken on it's own merits so to broadly advocate getting something bigger and more powerful than the other guy, as opposed to something that will raise your chances of getting out safe, I'd say, is based in fear rather than logic and reasoning.

Christian Soldier, sorry if this sounds preachy mate but I think you're missing the point of defense entirely! I highlighted your quote and the next sentence because in a civilian self defense situation, there is no fight and there sure as hell is no mission. If you are on a mission on the streets, you are a vigilante and acting outside the law anyway so no advice given here is going to be good enough. As I mentioned before, everything must be taken in context. What applies to a solider or an LEO does not apply to the average citizen. Carrying a weapon (if you are legally allowed to) can possibly be a good thing and have it's advantages but overall you don't just tip the scales in your favor. You raise the stakes considerably across the board. I will say that when it comes to real world violence, there is no such thing as a fair fight. The bad guys won't take turns attacking you, will generally have friends or backup with them so you are outnumbered, will generally have weapons of their own and won't worry about the correct way to use them or rationalize what the consequences could be. They will be attacking in a primal fashion driven either by the desire to hurt or the desire for your belongings. Telling yourself you can somehow make that into a fair fight is frankly going to be detrimental to any serious training you can do.

 

[frank raud]

What both you guys are describing sounds great on paper (well, a monitor) however that attitude can very quickly drive any situation from defense, which is what this thread is about, to assault or in extreme cases, manslaughter.

In a SD situation, a weapon or an object IMO should be picked up to act as an equalizer at it's base level and if it offers advantages, then great! Level the playing field as you put it Frank. If an attacker has a stick and you pick up a gun and use it, it's no longer appropriate force and therefore no longer within the realm of self defense. If the attacker is coming at you with a knife and you pick up a bat or a stick - either of which is a force multiplier and gives you a reach advantage - and break their arm with it or drop them to the ground and the fight ends there, then great. You acted to protect yourself and did what had to be done. If however, you disarm them and then keep hitting them or take them to ground and keep hitting them, you are now the one committing a felony. Yeah sure they instigated things but you took it to a whole new level. Keep in mind, I'm not saying you as in you guys personally, just referring to anyone in that situation. There is a reason even though police officers are given guns, they don't draw them, let alone shoot them in every situation. Everything must be taken on it's own merits so to broadly advocate getting something bigger and more powerful than the other guy, as opposed to something that will raise your chances of getting out safe, I'd say, is based in fear rather than logic and reasoning.

What is appropriate force will unfortunately depend on where you live. In Canada, if someone is attacking me with a stick, and I am in fear for my life or serious bodily harm, I can justifably shoot him.(Problem is my gun would have to be locked in a gun safe, unloaded, with amunition locked up separately:ultracool) Basically if a reasonable person would feel mortally threatened, I can do whatever is necessary to stop the attack, up to and including ending the attacker's life. That's the short version. You are of course correct, if I managed to successfully stop the attack, I cannot continue to beat someone with a club, or stab them, it then becomes assault on my part.

 

[Supra Vijai]

What is appropriate force will unfortunately depend on where you live. In Canada, if someone is attacking me with a stick, and I am in fear for my life or serious bodily harm, I can justifably shoot him.(Problem is my gun would have to be locked in a gun safe, unloaded, with amunition locked up separately:ultracool) Basically if a reasonable person would feel mortally threatened, I can do whatever is necessary to stop the attack, up to and including ending the attacker's life. That's the short version. You are of course correct, if I managed to successfully stop the attack, I cannot continue to beat someone with a club, or stab them, it then becomes assault on my part.

Hahaha same here - assuming you can get the damn thing in the first place! Look, I agree with what you posted there. If you have a gun, genuinely feel fearful for your life, and you can communicate that in a court of law, then by all means shoot if that's your only option. My point was more that picking up a weapon with the mindset of being bigger and more powerful from the outset, if the particular situation doesn't call for it can be a very bad thing for everyone concerned. I've personally found that training with the mindset of getting my hands on some form of equalizer to level the playing field generally means I don't go overboard in my actions under adrenaline and to be bluntly honest, it adds to the reality I am building as part of my training of defense. As has been mentioned before, where I live, one does have the right to bear arms as a general rule. As such, I am unlikely to be able to pick up a gun or even a knife in most situations and my training must reflect that reality. That of course is my approach and not for everyone but when we are dealing with someone not as experienced with the arts or violence, IMO it's best not to encourage any fantasies they may have about "winning" a street fight

 

[stonewall1350]

Most shootings? Thats like saying that most stabbings come from in Your face.

What? There are some old reports I am trying to find (google)...and I see a lot of quotes and comments like "90% 6-10 feet or less."

Exactly! Im not discounting Firearms, Im saying not to rely on the things

I am relying on my brain first. Then my words. Then whatever is going to give me the upper hand. That is my firearm...I am using it assuming the fight has escalated to that point (which I mean how often is someone going to put you into a situation where you NEED to fight...but it isn't for your life). I mean sure there is the rare occasion like a bar brawl...that I don't get in, but have the skills to get out of becuse I can't carry a gun.

But a firearm is as much a tool to rely on as a knife, stick, or your fists. It simply requires proper training and knowledge of deployment.

 

[Cyriacus]

What? There are some old reports I am trying to find (google)...and I see a lot of quotes and comments like "90% 6-10 feet or less."

That might be where the person starts from - But A: You do not often see attacks like this coming, and B: If You do see it coming, He is already moving towards You. Not standing there and warning You of His oncoming attack.

I am relying on my brain first. Then my words. Then whatever is going to give me the upper hand. That is my firearm...I am using it assuming the fight has escalated to that point (which I mean how often is someone going to put you into a situation where you NEED to fight...but it isn't for your life). I mean sure there is the rare occasion like a bar brawl...that I don't get in, but have the skills to get out of becuse I can't carry a gun.

Your brain is what tells Your body to move. You control Your brain. Therefore You are reliant on Yourself and what You are capable of. If that doesnt include being able to create the room to produce Your firearm, well, yeah.

But a firearm is as much a tool to rely on as a knife, stick, or your fists. It simply requires proper training and knowledge of deployment.

Yeah - And sometimes to deploy it, there needs to be a halt in the movements of the person trying to beat stab or batter You.

 

[Dolev]

I noticed that an effective weapon is a "low" voltage stun baton which extends out to some 20 inches. Since he gets stunned immediately chances of you getting charged with assault or murder are pretty low; unless you overdo it. The reach is a good deterrent for knife attacks, and i guess if you pull it out early then its just a baton, but you would put an empty handed guy in defense mode which wouldn't be very good. To sum it all up, no matter what you carry you have to be careful. Curling your hand into a fist is a way of instigating an attack.

:uhohh:​

 

[Cyriacus]

I noticed that an effective weapon is a "low" voltage stun baton which extends out to some 20 inches. Since he gets stunned immediately chances of you getting charged with assault or murder are pretty low; unless you overdo it. The reach is a good deterrent for knife attacks, and i guess if you pull it out early then its just a baton, but you would put an empty handed guy in defense mode which wouldn't be very good. To sum it all up, no matter what you carry you have to be careful. Curling your hand into a fist is a way of instigating an attack.

:uhohh:​

This requires more than half a second to produce, however.

 

[jks9199]

I noticed that an effective weapon is a "low" voltage stun baton which extends out to some 20 inches. Since he gets stunned immediately chances of you getting charged with assault or murder are pretty low; unless you overdo it. The reach is a good deterrent for knife attacks, and i guess if you pull it out early then its just a baton, but you would put an empty handed guy in defense mode which wouldn't be very good. To sum it all up, no matter what you carry you have to be careful. Curling your hand into a fist is a way of instigating an attack.

:uhohh:​

This requires more than half a second to produce, however.

It's not that effective, either. It's effectively a cattle prod or standard stun gun. It's pain compliance, at best. Despite what you see on tv and movies, stun guns don't disable people. The best would be the Taser C2. That'll give you 30 seconds, assuming a good hit and nothing breaks the leads, where the attacker is likely to be immobilized.

 

[Dolev]

I personally cringe whenever i hear tasers or stun guns, I can't bring myself to use one of the high voltage ones which immobilize immediately.
Instead of a low voltage baton would a high voltage baton be more effective; i mean its not a cattle prod, everything except the handle is conducting electricity.

 

[Christian Soldier]

I personally cringe whenever i hear tasers or stun guns, I can't bring myself to use one of the high voltage ones which immobilize immediately.
Instead of a low voltage baton would a high voltage baton be more effective; i mean its not a cattle prod, everything except the handle is conducting electricity.

They really aren't as bad as the media portrays them. We had a taser demo last week in our shcool and we tested a few that you would see often with the '800,000' volts and it was little more than a pinch and the attacker was barely effected. The civilian tasers work well but as soon as the shock is off you are back to normal and they can be beaten if you hold out something in front of you like a jacket or a backpack. Even of one of the pins hits it's fine because you need both for it to work.


Super Vijal, it's the concept that you should be prepared to win that matters. There's all this talk about how fights happen closer than you think and you are suggesting that perhaps instead of carrying a knife or gun it would be better to find an appropriate improvised weapon to match the attack, pick it up, and only use it as aggressively as your attacker, no more. Sure this sounds great in court, but it'll be your family and a few local police telling the jury exactly what happened while you are in critical condition in the hospital or in the mourge. It's just not practical.
If my attackers are going to come in high number and well armed, perhaps I should do the same to increase my survivability . You may have missed the 'force multiplier' thing, one of the great things about weapons is they can increase the chance of your survivability even in desperate situations.
Your mission is to protect your friends and family and live another day, it's constan and you never know when you might need to execute it. So in the mean time, it might be a good idea to arm yourself with a weapon and learn how to use it.