Probationary Black Belts Crock or Not?

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Just got back from Florida, will post later.

:asian:

 

[Dan Anderson]

On the West Coast, Prof. Presas would award a probationary Black on first testing and then at the next camp, he would award a permanent Black (lakan isa). This kept people coming back. I do remember, however, a number of people who didn't comne back even after receiving probationary black.

Revoking a black belt promotion, for me, comes after a serious ethics offense. I have only revoked one black belt in over 30 years of teaching martial arts.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[BruceCalkins]

I believe that promoting from within your school a student to Probationary Black Belt is a Crock for Retention and shows that you will give a Belt to keep a student.

But When a Black Belt from a Different Style joins our school his rank is confirmed and they are allowed to where their Black Belt Rank. This honors their past training and Instructors.

Once you have earned your Instructors Menkyo. We try to honor it. The New Student would be allow to wear their Black Belt rank but still have to Climb the ranks being tested for each belt. Time between Belt test is shorter because they most likely already have knowledge of the physical techniques you have to offer... (A Front Kick is a Front Kick) so to speak. But they are used as assistant instructors and respected as such.

 

[The Kai]

If you issue a probationary Black Belt, you are NOT giving them a black belt. It is a time to see if they are mature enough to handle the rank, responsibility.


Outside rank, cannot be taken away, however if they are wearing our school patch they start over. If they do something outside the school they can wear their old rank-provided they do not wear out patch or represent themselves as a member of our school.
In our school there is a specific way to execute the basics (most schools miss this point) if you view a front kick as throwing your foot out in front of your body, then obviously you need not to take this point into considertion

 

[47MartialMan]

Probationary Black Belt- Sounds like something criminal.

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

But When a Black Belt from a Different Style joins our school his rank is confirmed and they are allowed to where their Black Belt Rank. This honors their past training and Instructors.

How do you confirm their rank Bruce ? How do you determine the rank holder's organization ligitimate ? If you strut into my dojo, who do I call to confirm your rank ?

 

[47MartialMan]

How do you confirm their rank Bruce ? How do you determine the rank holder's organization ligitimate ? If you strut into my dojo, who do I call to confirm your rank ?

If you can call someone. Or what if they bought in documentation? This is the same dilema on how rank from one place and its requirements differ in another. So rather it is confirmed, will it still do justice in qualification in another?

I do not allow sonmeone with previous experience/rank to wear their rank. I will point out to our practitioners that such a person has previous experience, but I will not allow their rank to be a display issue.

They will start their training from the bottom. However, they may not be able to jump so far ahead. Some of our basic drills/routines have to be performed. I doubt, which I have seen, they these experienced newcomers can hold up to those.

I have seen beginners, develop tactics much quickly. Because they have develop this skill better, means to jump them ahead?

 

[Akashiro Tamaya]

If you can call someone. Or what if they bought in documentation? This is the same dilema on how rank from one place and its requirements differ in another. So rather it is confirmed, will it still do justice in qualification in another?

This was to be my next question, Good Call !

I do not allow sonmeone with previous experience/rank to wear their rank. I will point out to our practitioners that such a person has previous experience, but I will not allow their rank to be a display issue.

They will start their training from the bottom. However, they may not be able to jump so far ahead. Some of our basic drills/routines have to be performed. I doubt, which I have seen, they these experienced newcomers can hold up to those.

I have seen beginners, develop tactics much quickly. Because they have develop this skill better, means to jump them ahead?

Agreed. People with ego with the size of the himalayan mountains would find this disturbing. I have seen people walk in our dojo, but when requested that they where white, I often hear response " But I earned this belt and why can't I wear it" and yes these "clowns" often come from diffrent style of martial arts.

 

[47MartialMan]

People with ego with the size of the himalayan mountains would find this disturbing. I have seen people walk in our dojo, but when requested that they where white, I often hear response " But I earned this belt and why can't I wear it" and yes these "clowns" often come from diffrent style of martial arts.

Yea, these other experienced people who come in with higher ranks, at times, get bested by my lower rankers.

 

[Guro Harold]

Hey all.

This is great offshoot discussion but let's keep this thread on the question of the necessity of a Probationary Black belt ranking.

It would be cool if someone started a thread about honoring a person's previous rank in the General Martial Arts forum.

Thanks,

Palusut

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Hey all.

This is great offshoot discussion but let's keep this thread on the question of the necessity of a Probationary Black belt ranking.

It would be cool if someone started a thread about honoring a person's previous rank in the General Martial Arts forum.

Thanks,

Palusut

Wasn't this also how it relates to Modern Arnis?

:asian:

 

[47MartialMan]

Probationary Black Belts sounds like yet another means of "control".

 

[tshadowchaser]

A probationary Black Belt means that a person has the knowledge required but the instructor wants to see if :
1. the rank goes to the persons head
2. The person can improve his/her ability (clean up their little mistakes)
3. Is able to pass on their knowledge
4. Is going to leave because they made Black Belt and that was their only goal
5. Will honor and bring honor to their system and themsleves

 

[47MartialMan]

A probationary Black Belt means that a person has the knowledge required but the instructor wants to see if :
1. the rank goes to the persons head
2. The person can improve his/her ability (clean up their little mistakes)
3. Is able to pass on their knowledge
4. Is going to leave because they made Black Belt and that was their only goal
5. Will honor and bring honor to their system and themsleves

Then as a instructor, the probationary period should be before the rank, not another in lue of it.

 

[Dan Anderson]

I don't allow a new student to wear their past rank either. This is not to disrespect their previous award. In fact, I usually commend them on it. Rank worn in my school is, however, rank earned in my school. Period.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[47MartialMan]

People that are allowed to wear rank form one school or another seem to think that such is like scholastic/collegiate credits. As sure, this can be transferred. Usually, IMHO, any school/instructor, that allows one to wear rank from another is only apeasing the newcomer for enrollment gratification.

 

[arnisador]

Well, what if they belong to the same organization?

 

[47MartialMan]

Well, what if they belong to the same organization?

I speaking of different

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

I think the thread may be off topic now. Maybe someone can split this thread.

:-offtopic :asian:

 

[47MartialMan]

Yes, probstionary rank is in concern of those whom cannot fully award the rank to the one(s) who are deserving. As if shigh schools have a probationary diploma or colleges have a probationary Degree.