Pressure Points

[BlackCatBonz]

i think understanding the complexities of the meridian system is important to all martial artists, and just not from a martial standpoint either. as a shiatsu therapist and martial artist, knowledge of one only serves to enhance my knowledge of the other. but i do believe that understanding the healing qualities of accupuncture will make you a better martial artist. its one thing to know where the point is on the body, and altogether another animal to use it in the martial sense, but notwithstanding the fact that this knowledge will invariably become a part of your self defense repetoire......not just mere techniques to try out on your friends at the dojo.

i say post away.........its knowledge thats readily available at any bookstore

shawn

 

[Disco]

There is a student in our club that you can literally strike repeatedly in the same points, cross body, multiple point combinations, etc., and they have absolutely no serious effect. He is far more receptive of generic strikes to vital areas than he is to point strikes... That isn't the point, though, as people like that are the exception, not the rule."

Ah but that is the point. There are many more of the exception to the rule people out there than what people in general think. What happens if and when you come into hostile contact with one of these people? You are not predispossed to know that PP's won't affect this person and if you attempt to use them, you put yourself in a worse position. My whole point to this is that to many train and then rely on the use of pressure points and that in reality is asking for trouble.

 

[Matt Stone]

Ah but that is the point. There are many more of the exception to the rule people out there than what people in general think. What happens if and when you come into hostile contact with one of these people? You are not predispossed to know that PP's won't affect this person and if you attempt to use them, you put yourself in a worse position. My whole point to this is that to many train and then rely on the use of pressure points and that in reality is asking for trouble.

Precisely. That is why a) focusing only on pressure points or other pseudo-mystical techniques like no-touch KOs and "kiaijutsu" is only taking away from regular, more reliable training, b) teachers that focus on such things are doing their students a disservice at best, c) training with an immobile partner, or a partner that isn't trying to defeat you is setting the student up for a fanciful situation that will never occur (the reality will be far more devastating).

"Specializing" in pressure points is like a soldier that "specializes" in cleaning his rifle, or "specializes" in 12 mile road marches. Sure, it is an integral part of the overall scheme of things, but it should mesh seamlessly with the rest of the skills learned and trained instead of being the primary focus of the training...

 

[RHD]

Precisely. That is why a) focusing only on pressure points or other pseudo-mystical techniques like no-touch KOs and "kiaijutsu" is only taking away from regular, more reliable training, b) teachers that focus on such things are doing their students a disservice at best, c) training with an immobile partner, or a partner that isn't trying to defeat you is setting the student up for a fanciful situation that will never occur (the reality will be far more devastating).

"Specializing" in pressure points is like a soldier that "specializes" in cleaning his rifle, or "specializes" in 12 mile road marches. Sure, it is an integral part of the overall scheme of things, but it should mesh seamlessly with the rest of the skills learned and trained instead of being the primary focus of the training...

You're absolutely right. The thing is, there will always be pressure point "worshippers" that see them as the holy grail of martial arts. Unfortuantely the truth comes out under the worst of circumstances, and there is no convincing anyone otherwise. Once you believe, it's fact until you change your own mind.

Mike

 

[Rob Broad]

The knowledge of pressure oints is just one more tool in your toolbox for self defense. I don't see anyone pulling off 3 precise strikes for a KO in a true self defense situation. The only exception may be in a two hand lapel grab situation.

I am not a Dillman student, I am not part of his oraganization, but I have been to several of his seminars when they were in my area. The pressure point knock outs are neat to see, but I know that they are far from practical. I enjoy the tuite discriptions of the forms at the seminars more than anything else.

I have met several people who think that pressure points are the end all to be all and that they can use them to defend themselves in any situation. I, unfortunately, was affiliated with an instructor that has really capitalized from the Dillman seminars. But he found that he lost a few students that believed the material that they had learn for self defense would be enough to defens themselves if the used pressure points with them. These people later became referred to as Dillmanites, and they still attend Dillman camps and seminars through out the year with out going to a martial arts school. To me that is more dangerous than anything else.

 

[Sarah]

It seems to me that most of us are in agreement that Pressure Point can be useful (an fun to learn) but at the end of the day they are just one of many aspects of our training!!

 

[Rob Broad]

Being as isloated as I am up here in the Great White North, there isn't many people I can discuss PP with unless I am online. These days I am more interested in the Healing aspects, but there is nobody up in my next of the woods that can assist me with this.

 

[Sarah]

Being as isloated as I am up here in the Great White North, there isn't many people I can discuss PP with unless I am online. These days I am more interested in the Healing aspects, but there is nobody up in my next of the woods that can assist me with this.

Have you looked in to shiatsu or something along that line...maybe BlackCat can help you with that!

 

[Rob Broad]

I live in a community of 56 000 people, we are known as the Gateway to the North. There are 2 major industries here. Mining and Logging. The primary sports activities are Hockey, Hunting and Fishing. While the city is beautiful, and the country side magnificent I am 4 fours North of civilization, and then 2 hours of traffic once there to find anything at all.

When I say there isn't much here I am not kidding.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i have relatives that live in north bay, rob!
anyway......as far as the pressure point thing goes..there are certain anatomical points, that when struck, will 99.99% of the time, result in the desired effect. this is not fancy hocus pocus, or anything to do with chi or ki, (which i will say here that i am a believer in) but is a result of affecting the various nerve structures in the body, most commonly baroceptors.
if anyone would like to chat about anything martial arts, i am quite open. and i will be the first to tell you if it is out of my scope of knowledge. i think honesty between teacher and student is one of the most important traits that teachers can bring into the dojo.

shawn

 

[ppko]

The knowledge of pressure oints is just one more tool in your toolbox for self defense. I don't see anyone pulling off 3 precise strikes for a KO in a true self defense situation. The only exception may be in a two hand lapel grab situation.

I am not a Dillman student, I am not part of his oraganization, but I have been to several of his seminars when they were in my area. The pressure point knock outs are neat to see, but I know that they are far from practical. I enjoy the tuite discriptions of the forms at the seminars more than anything else.

I have met several people who think that pressure points are the end all to be all and that they can use them to defend themselves in any situation. I, unfortunately, was affiliated with an instructor that has really capitalized from the Dillman seminars. But he found that he lost a few students that believed the material that they had learn for self defense would be enough to defens themselves if the used pressure points with them. These people later became referred to as Dillmanites, and they still attend Dillman camps and seminars through out the year with out going to a martial arts school. To me that is more dangerous than anything else.

Using Pressure Points is a very effective way for people to fight knowing where they are increases your odds in a fight ( aim small miss small concept) the activation area is about the size of a quarter, hitting in the area at the correct angle and direction only increases your odds of winning the fight. I may not hit the point every time or it may not end the fight but I will not stop hitting after one hit niether, I am well versed enough (as are most DKI people(at least the ones that I have met))to be able to handle myself if do not drop them on the first strike.
Best Regards

 

[Disco]

Just a simple admonitory............"If you play, your gonna pay"

 

[Turbo]

Post the information and answer questions on pressure points. Information can get you started but if the person isnt going to invest the time actually training the points (IN MOTION) they wont be effective anyway. There is alot more into making kyusho work than just angle and direction....Its not going to hurt anyone on this forum if you help answer some of our questions....I would really appreiciate it!

 

[ppko]

Post the information and answer questions on pressure points. Information can get you started but if the person isnt going to invest the time actually training the points (IN MOTION) they wont be effective anyway. There is alot more into making kyusho work than just angle and direction....Its not going to hurt anyone on this forum if you help answer some of our questions....I would really appreiciate it!

I agree with you 100% what was one of your questions

 

[bignick]

pressure points...hmmm....

looking back through this thread i realized i was the first to post on it, then i left...man have things changed

pressure points dont' work on everyone...there are a few on me that don't bother me at all...and some that hurt like a son of a gun..as an illustration of someone who is extra sensitive...my sensei teaches the self-defense class at the local university...and he was talking about pressure points and the one on the neck came up...the same one that is attacked by rear choke or a strike to the side of the neck...and this girl started tapping herself on the neck trying to find it...and knocked herself out...it was unreal...

to me...pressure points are targets of oppurtunity...not the actual goal...but if they're there...go for it...anyone that gets in a fight and their sole strategy is to use pressure points, have a suprise waiting for them...but if your fighting and all of sudden there's an opening, attack...

you should never rely on one thing to protect yourself...

 

[Turbo]

I think it is funny when people say that hitting points is going out of your way in a fight....if I punch a guy in the jaw, why not hit stomach 5 if I am there....totally agree with you bignick....

Stomach 9- This is one I have worked on for a while now....The point being level with the adam apple...I strike 45 into the neck with a penetrating shuto...I dont get the KO I have tried setting up with both LI 10 and Lung 5.

I got a dizzing effect on one when I took the point more straight back instead of the 45 to the spin. Any Comments or suggestions...

Also: I have been told that a point stays activated for 20 min after being struck...but when doing a ko should you stike as fast as possible between points to overload the system??????????

Thanks

 

[ppko]

I think it is funny when people say that hitting points is going out of your way in a fight....if I punch a guy in the jaw, why not hit stomach 5 if I am there....totally agree with you bignick....

Stomach 9- This is one I have worked on for a while now....The point being level with the adam apple...I strike 45 into the neck with a penetrating shuto...I dont get the KO I have tried setting up with both LI 10 and Lung 5.

I got a dizzing effect on one when I took the point more straight back instead of the 45 to the spin. Any Comments or suggestions...

Also: I have been told that a point stays activated for 20 min after being struck...but when doing a ko should you stike as fast as possible between points to overload the system??????????

Thanks

A point is activated as long as your nerves are jumping from being hit there, but yes you should overload the system but if you are in a classroom setting you have to be sensitive enough to the training to not hurt your partner, just wandering you do know how to properly revive people right as this is the most important part of being able to KO someone at least in a classroom setting, if so keep doing what you are doing and good luck in your training:ultracool

 

[D.Cobb]

You are right, depending on the drugs and the points used it could be a worse effect or they may feel nothing at all

If this is what you think pressure point combat is all about, the feelings of pain, then you have got it ALL wrong!!
If it relies on pain to work, then it is doomed to fail. Anyone can fight through pain. Some people can go beyond what most of us would consider normal.
Whilst some of the points can cause pain, and they are good for a laugh in the dojo, it is the ones that have effect without pain, that are necessary in a fight. The ones that work, regardless of the persons constitution.

Unfortunately for you, Mr. Dillman does not teach these.
I understand why he does what he does. No one can truely call him wrong. What he teaches, he calls "The Dillman Pressure Point Method". It is not the "Oyata Method", or "The Grand Poobah Method" etc. And as such, he is entitled to teach it any way he likes. However, just like Mr. Stone, I can't condone the "Stand there, whilst I bash the bejazus outa ya" method.
I never saw my instructor use a static target. And the only condition he would sometimes set for our attacks, might be the height. Eg. punch to my head/ or punch to my stomach etc. his usual instruction was, "Try to take me out." So we would and then we'd nap
Then he'd show us how.....

--Dave

 

[D.Cobb]

Being as isloated as I am up here in the Great White North, there isn't many people I can discuss PP with unless I am online. These days I am more interested in the Healing aspects, but there is nobody up in my next of the woods that can assist me with this.

Hey Rob, have you tried contacting, Kyusho International? They're all over the place. The guys that run it are ex Dillman, but the group is made up of people from every style imaginable, from all over the planet.

--Dave

 

[D.Cobb]

I think it is funny when people say that hitting points is going out of your way in a fight....if I punch a guy in the jaw, why not hit stomach 5 if I am there....totally agree with you bignick....

Stomach 9- This is one I have worked on for a while now....The point being level with the adam apple...I strike 45 into the neck with a penetrating shuto...I dont get the KO I have tried setting up with both LI 10 and Lung 5.

I got a dizzing effect on one when I took the point more straight back instead of the 45 to the spin. Any Comments or suggestions...

Also: I have been told that a point stays activated for 20 min after being struck...but when doing a ko should you stike as fast as possible between points to overload the system??????????

Thanks

Nope, you don't need to blast to overload the system. The big secret though, is to forget about getting a KO. just hit the points and the rest will take care of its self. Remember, though it'd be cool to get the out cold KO, it doesn't really matter on the street. If you can make your opponent wobbly, then he can't hit you or chase you. All you need to do is get out of there and maybe call the law.

--Dave