Pressure points

[ppko]

Nice image Cdnronin.

I have to ask if the blindness thing is something that has been witness or experienced first hand, or is it one of those things taken on faith because a teacher says it will happen.

I am a firm believer in the effectiveness of pressure points for striking and grappling. However, I will not ever accept "this happens because my teacher told me so" as an answer for anything in martial application, pressure point or no. Granted, no one wants to volunteer for experimentation with this particular claim, but nonethless I have to ask where the evidence for this actually happening is coming from?

Mike

The bone is hollow and the reason why we know it will break off is from going to different colleges and looking at the human body ( my college was NKU I attended NKU in 1999 ). I was able to dissect a human body their and was very helpful in understanding the human body and the effects that certain trauma can cause.

PPKO

 

[RHD]

The bone is hollow and the reason why we know it will break off is from going to different colleges and looking at the human body ( my college was NKU I attended NKU in 1999 ). I was able to dissect a human body their and was very helpful in understanding the human body and the effects that certain trauma can cause.

PPKO

I see, but my point is that you've never physically experienced striking this point and having the bone (zygomatic) break off and cause blindness. Rather you theorize or have been taught the theory that this will happen. A theory needs to be proven or disproven. Unfortunately, I doubt tht there will be many volunteers lining up.

As a side note, I'm fond of TW-11, and H-2 I like this points for chin na applications and I've never encountered anyone who did not respond to them with severe pain.

Mike

 

[Jim Perkins]

I see, but my point is that you've never physically experienced striking this point and having the bone (zygomatic) break off and cause blindness. Rather you theorize or have been taught the theory that this will happen. A theory needs to be proven or disproven. Unfortunately, I doubt tht there will be many volunteers lining up.

Hi Mike, If I may jump in here I agree with you on the location of TW23 and the bone theory. The danger I believe here is an incorrectly placed strike on this one, because of the optic nerve and if you miss the strike on TW23 and if the optic nerve was damaged that could cause blindness.

I like PC 6 + TW12 for given weak knees.

Jim

 

[Matt Stone]

The bone is hollow...

The human skeleton, to my knowledge, has no hollow bones. Birds have hollow bones, we do not.

...and the reason why we know it will break off is from going to different colleges and looking at the human body ( my college was NKU I attended NKU in 1999 ). I was able to dissect a human body their and was very helpful in understanding the human body and the effects that certain trauma can cause.

So they allowed you to strike the cadaver and after doing so you dissected the cadaver's head and observed the effects of the strike? If this is the case, riddle me this - how long did you say you'd been studying DKI stuff? I seem to recall you implying it had only been the last few years, certainly not as far back as 1999...

If you were not studying DKI in 1999, and you were attending some other college class that allowed you to view a dissected human cadaver, how could you state with certainty and authority the pseudo-science you are using to substantiate your claim?

Just come clean and admit you don't know certain things about the points you are hitting... At least that honesty will allow you the chance to start learning what is really happening instead of clinging to the "magic" of pseudo-kyusho...

 

[RRouuselot]

The human skeleton, to my knowledge, has no hollow bones. Birds have hollow bones, we do not.



So they allowed you to strike the cadaver and after doing so you dissected the cadaver's head and observed the effects of the strike? If this is the case, riddle me this - how long did you say you'd been studying DKI stuff? I seem to recall you implying it had only been the last few years, certainly not as far back as 1999...

If you were not studying DKI in 1999, and you were attending some other college class that allowed you to view a dissected human cadaver, how could you state with certainty and authority the pseudo-science you are using to substantiate your claim?

Just come clean and admit you don't know certain things about the points you are hitting... At least that honesty will allow you the chance to start learning what is really happening instead of clinging to the "magic" of pseudo-kyusho...

I know some Universities allow Gov. Organizations and certain medical companies to do private experiments on cadavers for military and scientific research, which costs them A LOT of money………since when do they authorize students to do so?

Answer: They don’t!

 

[ppko]

The human skeleton, to my knowledge, has no hollow bones. Birds have hollow bones, we do not.



So they allowed you to strike the cadaver and after doing so you dissected the cadaver's head and observed the effects of the strike? If this is the case, riddle me this - how long did you say you'd been studying DKI stuff? I seem to recall you implying it had only been the last few years, certainly not as far back as 1999...

If you were not studying DKI in 1999, and you were attending some other college class that allowed you to view a dissected human cadaver, how could you state with certainty and authority the pseudo-science you are using to substantiate your claim?

Just come clean and admit you don't know certain things about the points you are hitting... At least that honesty will allow you the chance to start learning what is really happening instead of clinging to the "magic" of pseudo-kyusho...

Yes you are right, but I never claimed to be with DKI at that time, nor did I claim to strike the cadaver. I did however examine the cadaver in anatomy class and that is how I found out about the bone. I was a student at NKU and once I started training with DKI George said it and it also happens to be in the area so that is how I can say that with certainty.
PPKO

 

[Flatlander]

I think your definition of certainty is a bit less particular than mine. Regardless, what study did you then conduct in order to evaluate your theory? Did you handle the cadaver?

 

[ppko]

I think your definition of certainty is a bit less particular than mine. Regardless, what study did you then conduct in order to evaluate your theory? Did you handle the cadaver?

Yes we dissected the cadaver me and my partner to discover more about it. The reason I can say what I did is because I was told by my prof. it was one of the weakest bones in the human body and George is the one that stated it breaking off to cause blindness it makes sense to me.
PPKO

 

[gusano]

The human skeleton, to my knowledge, has no hollow bones. Birds have hollow bones, we do not...

Matt,[font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif][/font]The strongest bone in the body, the thighbone, is hollow. Ounce for ounce, it has a greater pressure tolerance and bearing strength than a rod of equivalent size[font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif] made[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif] [font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif]of[/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, Univers, 'Zurich BT', sans-serif] cast steel..[/font][/font]

I believe that the lacrimal bone is the weakest and may be what the original poster was referring to. No idea if it causes blindness when broken, but being the weakest bone I'm sure it's not uncommon to break. I know that there are points on the body more vital than others but some of these posts are......creepy.

 

[RHD]

Yes we dissected the cadaver me and my partner to discover more about it. The reason I can say what I did is because I was told by my prof. it was one of the weakest bones in the human body and George is the one that stated it breaking off to cause blindness it makes sense to me.
PPKO

This is the problem...
I don't mean to pick on you ppko, but because a professor and Mr. Dillman told you so, doesn't mean it happens. I've known many college professors to live off of theory alone. I think we all know that getting hit in the temple or temple area is bad news. Causing blindness is speculation. Its like saying "90% of all fights end up on the ground" because Hoyce Gracie says so. I'd like to see hard evidence to back that up.

What I'm curious about is the focus on knocking people out with pressure points. I understand that an unconscious opponent is a lot easier to deal with, but I have to wonder how many people are actually able to use pressure point knock outs when its life or death and the adrenaline is pumping.

Mike

 

[RRouuselot]

This is the problem...
I don't mean to pick on you ppko, but because a professor and Mr. Dillman told you so, doesn't mean it happens. I've known many college professors to live off of theory alone. I think we all know that getting hit in the temple or temple area is bad news. Causing blindness is speculation. Its like saying "90% of all fights end up on the ground" because Hoyce Gracie says so. I'd like to see hard evidence to back that up.

What I'm curious about is the focus on knocking people out with pressure points. I understand that an unconscious opponent is a lot easier to deal with, but I have to wonder how many people are actually able to use pressure point knock outs when its life or death and the adrenaline is pumping.

Mike

Hence my previous comment about the down side of practicing on a willing opponent that stands there and waits for it.

 

[Matt Stone]

Got this from here

"Each bone is comprised of three major sections, the compact bone, the soft bone marrow, and the sponge bone. The soft bone marrow is found within the hollow center of the bone - this is where red blood cells are produced."

So if this is what is meant by "hollow," then fine. But hollow in the sense that one of the facial bones is devoid of substance in the middle, and therefore easier to break? I disagree.

The point described by PPKO, TW/SJ 23, is located on the lateral aspect of the supraorbital ridge. The lacrimal bone is located on the medial wall of the orbit, entirely opposite the point being struck. Because of this, I don't believe the lacrimal bone is what PPKO is talking about breaking.

 

[Flatlander]

Okay, the first time I had ever heard of this/these particular art(s) was in the NTKO thread. After a couple of weeks of reading these posts, I'm becoming intrigued.

Mr. Rouuselot, Mr. Stone, can you recommend any good books on the subject for someone totally unfamiliar?

Thanks.

 

[RRouuselot]

Okay, the first time I had ever heard of this/these particular art(s) was in the NTKO thread. After a couple of weeks of reading these posts, I'm becoming intrigued.

Mr. Rouuselot, Mr. Stone, can you recommend any good books on the subject for someone totally unfamiliar?

Thanks.

I know one or two but they are in Chinese.
The best way is to get a "qualified" teacher.....books & "secret scrolls" can only teach a little of the concept but not application, you really need to find someone that knows there stuff.
If you tell me which area you live in I might be able to introduce you to someone.

 

[Flatlander]

I seek no secret scroll, just info. I can't afford travelling, and am in the middle of nowhere. (Canada). But I can't read chinese. I know a bit of French, but not conversational. And that only helps me at the grocery store when the boxes are facing backwards.

 

[RRouuselot]

I seek no secret scroll, just info. I can't afford travelling, and am in the middle of nowhere. (Canada). But I can't read chinese. I know a bit of French, but not conversational. And that only helps me at the grocery store when the boxes are facing backwards.

Let me look around for something in English.
Did you want a book on location of points or something that tells you how to whack 'em?

 

[Flatlander]

Whatever you can find, sir. Both would be helpful, if possible. Thank you.