Please Help With Crime Victim Identification

[suicide]

If that was meant to be deep, it was..... so much so it disappeared in the swamp.

why ? is that were you dwell :shock: dont get mad at me i aint the one that beat some one up ( homeless crazy bum ) in my dojo 25 years ago ... another 9/11 conspiracy in the works : the guy was whooped on so that congress could past tuffer laws against MA and owners of dojos , tez dont start with me again PEACE LOVE UNITY AND RESPECT ! even for crazy bums :ultracool

 

[Carol]

Apparantly one of the members of the PWC PD didn't get the memo that this was supposed to be swept under the rug in hopes the nice people on the internet forget it ever happened.

http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/crime/article/police_launch_investigation_into_1984_beating_video/42943/%20Inside%20Nova

 

[shesulsa]

Apparantly one of the members of the PWC PD didn't get the memo that this was supposed to be swept under the rug in hopes the nice people on the internet forget it ever happened.

http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/crime/article/police_launch_investigation_into_1984_beating_video/42943/%20Inside%20Nova

Ma'am, if I may ...

Some highlights from that article pertinent to this discussion:

Police originally said that wasn’t the case. Now they aren’t so sure, Prince William police Maj. Ray Colgan said.

...

If the victim died from complications from his injuries weeks, months or even years later, Troutner admits that fact would be hard to track.

...

Masterson also said there is no statute of limitations on felony assault charges. If identified, the attacker in the video could be charged with malicious wounding or aggravated assault.

...

Police say they need to find out the identity of that victim, and to hear from anyone else who may have witnessed beatings at the dojo.

...

Anyone with information is asked to call Prince William Crime Solvers at 703-670-3700.

Just to point out how the online community can be a productive, healthy thing, the story of Andrew Rendo is emerging as I type. Andrew Rendo is the brother of an assistant to a very popular online mommy blogger by the name of Heather Armstrong (dooce.com) When her assistant's family became aware he was missing, she put the word out via Twitter.com and kept her fanbase updated.

The Phoenix PD was not going to assign a detective to Rendo's case for a week after he was reported missing - more than long enough for anyone wandering the desert to die twice. Heather's Twitter fanbase flooded PPD with phone calls and emails requesting they assign a detective immediately; a day later, a detective was assigned and a search and rescue was organized.

Rendo's car had been found wrecked (airbag deployed) and deserted. He is mentally ill and off his medication.

I just got the tweet that he has been located and release of details is pending family notification.

Armstrong also tweeted an alert of a missing child who was found shortly as well due to the broad reach of Twitter.

The internet is a source for a lot of garbage, pointless banter, time-sucking role-play games (blush), penis-waving and porn. Using it for the other productive means it affords - most especially to aid in crime prevention, missing persons location, justice, etcetera makes a lot of sense.

Let's all hope this case is resolved fairly quickly.

P.S. - Those interested in Rendo's story - Andrew Rendo was found alive. Link1, Link2.

 

[ATC]

We've already established he didn't die. In fact, we've established police already contacted him after the fact, and he refused to press charges. We've also established he was a homeless man 25 years ago, and has likely been long since lost to posterity.

Your facts may not be as factual as you think.
http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news...on_into_1984_beating_video/42943/ Inside Nova

I suggest you read the artical at the above link.

 

[Tez3]

why ? is that were you dwell :shock: dont get mad at me i aint the one that beat some one up ( homeless crazy bum ) in my dojo 25 years ago ... another 9/11 conspiracy in the works : the guy was whooped on so that congress could past tuffer laws against MA and owners of dojos , tez dont start with me again PEACE LOVE UNITY AND RESPECT ! even for crazy bums :ultracool

Nothing wrong with swamps lol1 But I live on the side of a hill.

All i meant was your comment went right over the top of my head and I didn't understand it. I expect some others didn't understand it either but I'm the only one daft enough to say so lol!

 

[suicide]

its all to the good love %-}

 

[sgtmac_46]

Apparantly one of the members of the PWC PD didn't get the memo that this was supposed to be swept under the rug in hopes the nice people on the internet forget it ever happened.

http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/crime/article/police_launch_investigation_into_1984_beating_video/42943/%20Inside%20Nova

So.......an entire article based solely on more dubious speculation about the video clip, without anything substantial to add........

“It is evident from the tape that the guy has some type of karate or judo experience,” said Prince William police Detective Paul J. Masterson. “He holds his own pretty well for at least a few minutes. He may have gotten that from the military. He may have been stationed at Quantico.”


Many who have posted to the Internet about the assault believe the victim was left for dead in a Dumpster behind the dojo. Prince William police Detective T.R. Troutner said he believes the man could still be alive today.

So now we've gone from the unsupported speculation that his body was dumped, to the unsupported speculation that this guy had his Jesus martial arts training at QUANTICO?



Come on folks.........a little hint about Paul Masterson's martial arts expertise is his assertion that this guy demonstrated on 'Judo' skills.


When folks say things like that......even with they have 'Det.' before their names.........they are talking out of their backside.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Your facts may not be as factual as you think.
http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/crime/article/police_launch_investigation_into_1984_beating_video/42943/%20Inside%20Nova

I suggest you read the artical at the above link.

I did so.......and found nothing more that some asinine speculations made ABOUT the video, that are not supported by it, and add nothing substantial to it........JUDO TRAINING AND QUANTICO?! Really?

Quote ONE SINGLE additional fact presented in that article....PERIOD......much less anything that refutes any statement i've already made.

Let me tell what you actually read.......the Detective bureau has been inundated with MULTIPLE calls and demands that they 'do something'.......what they are giving you is speculation to make it sound as if they are doing something........but the reality is that 25 year old assaults committed on unidentified homeless people are not likely to be solvable..........this isn't CSIeluth or Law and Order:SUV........finding this guys identity 25 years ago would have been tough.......going back 25 years and trying to figure out WHO this guy was, who is probably dead or long since lost to the system, is kind of silly tough.......



Take a DEEP BREATH folks........look past the emotional speculation......and examine the FACTS.......the really provable facts.........not the innuendo, not the wild supposition........the FACTS........we know that 25 years ago these clowns brought this guy in, and assaulted him.........that is ALL YOU KNOW! We ALSO know that an officer said he talked with the guy week after the incident and that he was alive.......nothing ANYONE has said has refuted that in any way shape or form.........except for those who still cling to their wild 'He must have died and been dumped' speculation, that is not SUPPORTED by one single shred of evidence.

So in order to believe that, we've not only got the dojo clowns killing homeless people, but the police are IN ON IT! Seriously? Really? That's the story we're going with now?

 

[jks9199]

So.......an entire article based solely on more dubious speculation about the video clip, without anything substantial to add........




So now we've gone from the unsupported speculation that his body was dumped, to the unsupported speculation that this guy had his Jesus martial arts training at QUANTICO?



Come on folks.........a little hint about Paul Masterson's martial arts expertise is his assertion that this guy demonstrated on 'Judo' skills.


When folks say things like that......even with they have 'Det.' before their names.........they are talking out of their backside.

At this point, this video has received enough attention that PWPD is pretty much forced to do something with it... for PR if no other reason. It's a dog of a case, but they'll "look into it."

They may ID the guy but I won't be at all surprised if they don't. We're talking 25 years, and the DC metro area (which includes Dumfries) has a whole lot of people moving around. Many of the people most likely to be able to ID the guy may not have regular internet access -- and likely won't see the video unless they're really compelled to look for it or it's thrown in their face.

I think odds are decent that the guy didn't die from this beating. Whether or not he's still alive is a different question... as we've discussed. And his martial arts background? Who knows?! From what little you see, it might be the Saturday Morning Martial Arts Movie Dojo-Kwoon... or he may have had some training somewhere.

 

[shesulsa]

The "Quantico" add was interesting and seemed like bait.

We'll see what happens, I guess.

 

[sgtmac_46]

The "Quantico" add was interesting and seemed like bait.

We'll see what happens, I guess.

The Quantico seemed more like a Detective without any sort of martial arts experience whatsoever.......which is not uncommon for Detectives. The 'Judo' was a dead giveaway........sounds like he doesn't even know what Judo is, much less knows it when he sees it. There was nothing in the video that would remotely indicate 'Judo' expertise.......no Harai Goshi or Osoto Gari in the entire video......sounds like he may have seen a 'Judo chop' thrown in.

Just some overworked Detectives trying to give a soundbite that makes it appear as if they are remotely interested in this case........when they are more concerned with the crack house shooting from last Thursday.


I need to reiterate the fact that I don't take exception with people being disturbed by this video, and wanting to see some kind of justice done.......my only issue is that folks are jumping to some flawed conclusions and building some pretty unreasonable expectations.

Here's reality..........a man who was homeless and mentally ill 25 years ago, doesn't suddenly since become an investment banker........the life expectancy of someone living under the local over-pass isn't that long. Being dead, in prison or permanently committed is likely to have occurred long ago.......at any rate, he's not likely to look the same, and I doubt he'll be cruising the internet, see this video and go 'That's me!'.

As for the righteous rage at what these clowns were doing, it's justified........some of the wild speculation, not so much.

 

[ATC]

We've already established he didn't die.

No we did not.

In fact, we've established police already contacted him after the fact, and he refused to press charges.

No this is not a fact.

We've also established he was a homeless man 25 years ago, and has likely been long since lost to posterity.

Maybe you established this in your mind but this is just spectulation at this point.

We ALSO know that an officer said he talked with the guy week after the incident and that he was alive.

No WE don't know this. You seem to take one article and make it fact while totally dismissing another article that was written after the first article. I would hate to have you as my lawyer, judge, jury or anything for that matter. You spout off about facts and nothing is factual. You call all your beliefs facts and your disbeliefs assumptions, when the fact is everything at this point are assumptions, even your statements.


You just saying something is fact does not make it so. Again "READ" the article at the link below. Your facts seem to have been mostly conjecture. We have two countering articles make everything we know conjecture. EVERYTHING!!! This is why they have investigations and you can't just dissmiss what you don't believe. If everyone thought like you nothing would get solved. That is why they have a cold case divison, for solving old cases where the facts are not clear.

http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/...0Inside%20Nova

.

 

[Archangel M]

Trust us..as LEO's, while we may not know the facts in this case, we do have a good grasp on how situations like this "work" within the media/court/LE investigative realms. Sgt Mac is making valid points. The ability to even identify this person is a reach, let alone locating him or tracking down if he is alive. Proving even recent cases without a body are difficult. Even if he is dead, the ability to link his death to this particular event are slim...especially if the person was homeless to begin with.

None of us are saying that this case is "not so bad" or that it doesn't bear looking into. I would just say don't expect much to happen.

 

[shesulsa]

UPDATE:

And recently, another person has come forward to say he too was invited to the dojo to display his fighting style and wound up in the hospital. He told police he thinks there were other victims, and they believe him.

"Right now, we believe there are other victims out there that were brought in from the street into this dojo and assaulted. We're looking for the public to come forward with that," says Detective Masterson. It was easy for police to track down Blythe. In the 80's, he was featured by the Today Show for training women to be body guards. He now lives in California. Prince William County Police say they'd like to find the victim in the video before filing any charges against Blythe or the black belt who carries out the assault. They think they know who the black belt is but are not positive yet.

Quite frankly, if I had had my *** kicked in a dojo owned by a former marine who had connections with local law enforcement and who worked security ... I might not want to show my face either. Successful prosecution in this scenario would seem slanted to fail.

:asian:

 

[shesulsa]

The Quantico seemed more like a Detective without any sort of martial arts experience whatsoever.......which is not uncommon for Detectives. The 'Judo' was a dead giveaway........sounds like he doesn't even know what Judo is, much less knows it when he sees it. There was nothing in the video that would remotely indicate 'Judo' expertise.......no Harai Goshi or Osoto Gari in the entire video......sounds like he may have seen a 'Judo chop' thrown in.

Just some overworked Detectives trying to give a soundbite that makes it appear as if they are remotely interested in this case........when they are more concerned with the crack house shooting from last Thursday.


I need to reiterate the fact that I don't take exception with people being disturbed by this video, and wanting to see some kind of justice done.......my only issue is that folks are jumping to some flawed conclusions and building some pretty unreasonable expectations.

Here's reality..........a man who was homeless and mentally ill 25 years ago, doesn't suddenly since become an investment banker........the life expectancy of someone living under the local over-pass isn't that long. Being dead, in prison or permanently committed is likely to have occurred long ago.......at any rate, he's not likely to look the same, and I doubt he'll be cruising the internet, see this video and go 'That's me!'.

As for the righteous rage at what these clowns were doing, it's justified........some of the wild speculation, not so much.

Well ... maybe we're reading different articles or something, because it seems that the police ... educated in martial arts or not ... know where Blythe is and have another victim who has stepped forward but are waiting to file charges, probably to see if they can tack this media-grabbing story on. Not sure why they want to wait, they have enough to charge him with the video evidence and it sounds like with the second victim's statement. They clearly want to identify the attacker in the video posted.

Is the guy dead? We don't know - the "someone saw him and he was limping" line carries about as much weight as the Quantico line. Could it be proven that the beating caused his death if he is dead? We don't know that. Who saw him alive? The police? If so, why weren't charges brought up then? Could it be Blythe's connections with law enforcement? Was the victim written off because of his mental/residential status? I think the people who do have the answers to those questions probably aren't on this board (with all due respect).

I think there are too many answered AND unanswered questions here for anyone to speculate they know what's going to happen.

 

[elder999]

And I just have to add that it all seems very "60's or 70's" to me.

At least, it was very much that way in New York, back then.Show up in a strange dojo claiming rank, and it didn't matter who you said your teacher was: Duk Sung Son, Shigeru Oyama, Muhammad, Jesus Christ, etc.-if there wasn't already some sort of "arrangement,"-like I had with master Son and Oyama shihan- or friendship, you were going to have to fight, and you were going to have to fight. You might not get your assed kicked, but you were going to be put through it. I visited a friend's goju dojo when I was 17, and I fought everybody that was there, and they knew I was coming, so that pretty much meant I sparred with everybody . I sparred the sensei and his senior student twice. I didn't get my *** kicked, or my head stomped, and it stayed pretty friendly, but I had a fierce evening, bruised ribs, and was sore for two weeks. As for what's in the video, I heard of things like that happening a lot at the time, but the times were different-doesn't make it any less stupid......

 

[Carol]

Trust us..as LEO's, while we may not know the facts in this case, we do have a good grasp on how situations like this "work" within the media/court/LE investigative realms. Sgt Mac is making valid points. The ability to even identify this person is a reach, let alone locating him or tracking down if he is alive. Proving even recent cases without a body are difficult. Even if he is dead, the ability to link his death to this particular event are slim...especially if the person was homeless to begin with.

None of us are saying that this case is "not so bad" or that it doesn't bear looking into. I would just say don't expect much to happen.

Well....actually it appears that Sarge is saying exactly that.

Case CLOSED!

I don't disagree with the points Sarge is making, or with his opinions.

But the higher the visibility of an issue, the greater the need for carefully managing expectations, yes? That seems to be a rule that applies whether one is in LE or whether one just rustles up unruly electrons for a living. :lol:

I think the Post article came across as being a bit too dismissive for the circumstances. I'm not slamming anyone for that, the article read as if it was written by an inexperienced journalist, and some LE agencies are better than others at talking to the press. But neither situation negates the need for managing perceptions and expectations as best as one can.

 

[Archangel M]

People also have to remember that LE in the 80's compared to LE now is far different than the 20-something years between would seem to imply. The expectations/training/culture of the police were as different between then and now as the differences in technology are.

Unless there were reports filed on paper and stored somewhere it is going to be tough to garner data to follow up on. These days of laptops in patrol cars, digital recording of dispatch calls, internet databases and what else, make tracking down leads much easier as long as you have data entered on them.

First and foremost would be identifying the victim in this case. My initial thoughts on an investigation would be to look for any DB's that came into the ME's office around that date. I'd look for reports that may have been filed...reports linked to the school...look for the current location of the instructors/students and interview them. If they tell me to go screw myself, I don't know how much leverage I would have on them in this old of a case. I'm betting that there have been a number of people claiming or thinking they know who the victim was...Id have to follow-up on them.

Beyond that?

 

[shesulsa]

All good points. It will be interesting to see where this goes from several standpoints, I think.

 

[sgtmac_46]

No we did not.

No this is not a fact.

Maybe you established this in your mind but this is just spectulation at this point.


No WE don't know this. You seem to take one article and make it fact while totally dismissing another article that was written after the first article. I would hate to have you as my lawyer, judge, jury or anything for that matter. You spout off about facts and nothing is factual. You call all your beliefs facts and your disbeliefs assumptions, when the fact is everything at this point are assumptions, even your statements.


You just saying something is fact does not make it so. Again "READ" the article at the link below. Your facts seem to have been mostly conjecture. We have two countering articles make everything we know conjecture. EVERYTHING!!! This is why they have investigations and you can't just dissmiss what you don't believe. If everyone thought like you nothing would get solved. That is why they have a cold case divison, for solving old cases where the facts are not clear.

http://www2.insidenova.com/isn/news/...0Inside Nova

.

Witness statement trumps wild supposition. One officer says he talked to the guy AFTER THE FACT.......your article did not present one single FACT to dispute that....not one single shred. I challenged to QUOTE one single FACT presented in the article, and your response is 'Read it' again.......which is, as we say, a 'punt'.

Bottom line, you've convinced yourself of a version of the events that departs from reality, and you have ZERO proof to support it.