sgtmac_46
Senior Master
Fair enough.
Please Help With Crime Victim Identification
- Thread starter Jonathan Randall
- Start date
Fair enough.
Per the original post, we are trying to identify the VICTIM in order to ascertain whether or not he survived. Was it a murder, in other words.
Ah, sorted! thanks.
I think a slightly less sensationalist approach would have been better, a general appeal in the media would probably bring more information in than frantically posting on forums all round the world.
This OP isn't as lurid as some I've seen,it's reasonable but it's almost as if it's the 'excitement' of seeing someone battered is the point of posting with the excuse that someone is looking for information. Quite disturbing in many ways, it makes me a bit suspicious too when they post it up, decry whats going on, say it's being posted for people to inform but then give no information as who to contact ie police if you do know who it is. I don't think posting it up on U Tube is going to help.
Contact information was given in the original link. I was disgusted, not titillated by the video and my ONLY motive is - if we did see a murder - to have some sort of justice done.
The man had his head stomped full force into a metal object multiple times. There is good reason to believe that he may not have survived absent medical treatment. In fact, I first heard that from a news clip where a police officer spokesman said as much himself and later from a doctor and two emergency nurses (although in fairness, all said "may" and "appears" and not certain based only on the video). That is the source of my info and not any desire for sensationalism; although I would change the manner in which I originally expressed the post and say instead "it is not known whether the victim survived" rather than "not survivable absent immediate medical care". There I've admitted erring in my OP.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to locate this guy to find out whether or not he survived. Those uninterested don't need to post here. Personally, I don't watch what may be a snuff film and walk away uninterested in justice. I'm not even in the martial arts anymore and haven't posted on this site for years. I'm only here to spread the "have you seen this guy? Do you know who he is and if he is still alive? If so contact the folks in the links provided" message. Once done, I'm going back to painting and collecting watches and will leave the MA world that has so often disappointed and disgusted me (although I recognize some GREAT people and teachers are out there and this is not a slam on any MartialTalk members) behind again.
The general appeal to the media is being done and has been done. The appeals on MA boards are in the hope that someone may have trained with or around this person and can thus help ID him. That is all.
I can't remember how to do the multiple post-quote thing, so sorry for so many posts to answer each question.
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Archangel M
Senior Master
Another sad example of "Martial Arts As:" self-identification, group-identity, power hierarchy, "way of life", "calling", et al.
IMO we would all be better of looking at MA as a "hobby", activity, sport, etc. Avoid all these BS trappings that lead to ego fueled crap like this.
Im a cop...thats my "calling" but even then,the well being of my family takes president and I would find another job if LE was destroying it.
Martial Arts are only skills that help me with my "calling"..its not a calling in and of itself. I think that people who get so wrapped in their martial arts identity do so for reasons far different than all the highfalutin mumbo jumbo they espouse.
IMO we would all be better of looking at MA as a "hobby", activity, sport, etc. Avoid all these BS trappings that lead to ego fueled crap like this.
Im a cop...thats my "calling" but even then,the well being of my family takes president and I would find another job if LE was destroying it.
Martial Arts are only skills that help me with my "calling"..its not a calling in and of itself. I think that people who get so wrapped in their martial arts identity do so for reasons far different than all the highfalutin mumbo jumbo they espouse.
I feel I'd better add that much more is known about the identity of those present in the room and their connections to each other as well as the environment (time and place) of that town 25 years ago than is presently being posted online. This info is not being posted out of very real concerns about illegal harassment of any individuals named who have a connection to this - innocent though many personal connections probably are - as well as fears of individuals obstructing (however well intentioned they may be) a police investigation. The other reason is that this thread was created simply to help identify a crime victim. That is the only reason for the existence of this thread. Thank you.
Exactly; and those uninterested in doing this should not be so concerned with what those who are interested are doing.
Forgot to say elsewhere. Yes, many folks in the ministry believe that God "called them" to their task and even that God "ordained" them. Nothing wrong with believing that and who am I to say they are wrong? However; were they to say that Jesus personally awarded them a Ph.D. in Theology with honours last year, the equation changes and their mental capacity and/or lucidity might be called into question. This victim directly stated that Jesus had awarded him a red belt 10th degree. That is one of the things that makes this event so terrible - they picked on and targeted someone who may have had a diminished mental capacity. Note the use of the word MAY have. That is what is being said and not that he WAS/IS mentally disabled.
Exactly; and those uninterested in doing this should not be so concerned with what those who are interested are doing.
Forgot to say elsewhere. Yes, many folks in the ministry believe that God "called them" to their task and even that God "ordained" them. Nothing wrong with believing that and who am I to say they are wrong? However; were they to say that Jesus personally awarded them a Ph.D. in Theology with honours last year, the equation changes and their mental capacity and/or lucidity might be called into question. This victim directly stated that Jesus had awarded him a red belt 10th degree. That is one of the things that makes this event so terrible - they picked on and targeted someone who may have had a diminished mental capacity. Note the use of the word MAY have. That is what is being said and not that he WAS/IS mentally disabled.
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Just a quick question that I thought about while reading this, not to do with this directly though!
The police spokesman said no charges were made as the injured chap didn't want to make a complaint, does American law allow charges to be brought without the victim complaining? Not necessarily in this case but after an assault can the police arrest and charge the person who attacked the victim if they have enough proof even if the victim doesn't want them to?
I could point out btw this is the third time that video had been posted up on MT in the past couple of weeks though the only one that has turned a bit contentious.
The police spokesman said no charges were made as the injured chap didn't want to make a complaint, does American law allow charges to be brought without the victim complaining? Not necessarily in this case but after an assault can the police arrest and charge the person who attacked the victim if they have enough proof even if the victim doesn't want them to?
I could point out btw this is the third time that video had been posted up on MT in the past couple of weeks though the only one that has turned a bit contentious.
Tez,
First -- a caveat. Each state -- and sometimes, each court within the state -- is different. So what I say may not be accurate outside of Virginia.
As a general rule, "no complainant, no charges" is pretty accurate in the US. A few exceptions, like domestic assault or homicide, do exist. Basically, while a cop can make charges for any offense that they can support with probable cause, it's not worth it if you have an uncooperative victim who likely won't show up at court or testify against the accused. Nobody wants to take charges forward and have them fall apart in court...
suicide
Black Belt
25 years have passed already just leave it alone , dont you think he knows by now that he did another human being wrong ? if the man gots a conscious like we all do then justice has been served ! what do you want , to see him behind bars ? dont you think he gots a family and people that love him & need him to be around ... take off your superhero cape for a second and have some human sympathy for him :angel: ' how do you think he feels about this video going around ? he must be so ashamed of himself and of what he did and most of all knowing that all the people that look up to him are like DAMN ? hes probably a better person in this day and age because of it. when somebody else is angry and starts to curse us , it is very easy for us to feel that we are hurt by them. but we can try to find out what is the cause of there suffering , their anger. the longer you keep the pain in yourself , the worse it will become. you stay angry , angry and angry thats the way you are hurting yourself and its foolish to hurt ones own heart or ones mind. :uhyeah: you can find friends everywhere but you cannot enemys anywhere unless you make them.:jediduel:
Apathy is the anvil upon which evil is honed.
If the man died from his injuries, he can't complain ... but that doesn't mean that people can't be brought up on charges. AND ... assault is assault. Some states require a complaining party, others do not. If this video is real, it is evidence of a heinous crime and if it is punishable by law in that state then it should be so.
While there are some things not worth involving oneself in, this might be one of those cases that is.
If the man died from his injuries, he can't complain ... but that doesn't mean that people can't be brought up on charges. AND ... assault is assault. Some states require a complaining party, others do not. If this video is real, it is evidence of a heinous crime and if it is punishable by law in that state then it should be so.
While there are some things not worth involving oneself in, this might be one of those cases that is.
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He was pretty damn proud of it for awhile considering this whole outflow is from Bobby Joe Blythe posting it to his own YouTube site and bragging about it. If he had never put it on the internet, no one would have known.
Indeed - this video only recently surfaced, neh? Apparently he's not half the man he once was ... why is he hiding if he felt so justified or he has atoned? Can he not face the music as he forced upon this young man so long ago?
Indeed, suicide, your statement holds little water with me.
I wouldn't assume that someone was sorry for what they'd done. Look at the Nazis, you think they were ever sorry and look at the films going around about what they did! They also have a lot of followers these days. Not knowing the instructor concerned I wouldn't make any assumptions about him whatsoever. as for enemies, I have many who just hate me because of my race and religion, they don't even know me. Goes for a lot of people too so your saying is a little trite though it may be wishful thinking.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
Generally, except in special circumstances, a victim is required......can't charge someone for stealing, if the victim says it wasn't stolen. Likewise if the victim of an assault says they aren't interested in pursuing charges. The exceptions are the statutorily spelled out exceptions, such as Domestic Assault.
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sgtmac_46
Senior Master
If the victim is 25 years missing it's impossible.
Moreover, Domestic Violence cases are a special case, as most states have passed laws SPECIFYING arrest and prosecution, even against the will of the victim. Murder is another special case, where the victim lacks the capacity to pursue charges. But most other crimes require an aggrieved party who asserts their victim status.
sgtmac_46
Senior Master
We've already established he didn't die. In fact, we've established police already contacted him after the fact, and he refused to press charges. We've also established he was a homeless man 25 years ago, and has likely been long since lost to posterity.
In essence, the odds are better of solving the Black Dahlia murder than finding this guy, or ever even figuring out who he was.
Seriously........figuring out the identity of many homeless folks you can find right now under the over-pass is hard........finding the identity of a homeless guy who was in town 25 years ago is an exercise in futility.
like i said earlier : so one is putting way to much on it ! ( someone some where is saying : no ____ sherlock ) maybe we should blame this on the illuminati :soapbox:
difficult to conquer is oneself : but when that is conquered , everything is conquered -
If that was meant to be deep, it was..... so much so it disappeared in the swamp.
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