Please Help With Crime Victim Identification

[sgtmac_46]

According to the Washington Post article linked above, it's actually been floating around for a while. It just got new life recently when it got posted on YouTube.

It's gone VIRAL!

 

[suicide]

did anyone actually know the human punching bag ? and where did the mentally challenged come from if know even knows who this guy is ?

 

[jks9199]

It's gone VIRAL!

I'm just glad it wasn't in my jurisdiction...

I'm the guy they throw dog cases like this to.

As you've said -- it's hard to say whether the kung fu guy is still alive today, for numerous reasons.

So, let's examine this incident. Let's take it in the worst light; he was mentally ill (would we accuse a preacher of being mentally ill if he said that Jesus Christ told him something? :shrug and was beaten severely including internal injuries. We have to assume he didn't die then & there; the body would almost certainly have been found, and the case investigated. So let's say he was badly hurt, knocked out, and woke up. He climbs out of the dumpster, and goes on about his life. And let's assume that the reports suggesting he may have been homeless are accurate, since one would think if he had family or friends, he'd have been taken to a hospital and this would have been dealt with then.

First possibility: he goes to the hospital. Odds are good that a guy coming in with severe injuries related to a beating is going to be given an opportunity to talk with the cops. So, there'd be a record. It seems pretty clear that both PWPD and Dumfries PD have checked their records without success, from the coverage this has received.

Second possibility: he went off and died of injuries somewhere else. I suppose it's possible that he died in the woods somewhere and the body was never found... In which case we'll probably never know who he was or hear his side.

Third possibility: he recovered, over time. Let's figure he was around 18 to 25 years old in 1984. (I'm making some assumptions based on mental illness etiology and appearance here; he could easily be older. I doubt he's younger.) That puts him in his late forties or early fifties now. If he's been living on the streets -- that's a long time. He may well be dead from lots of different things... Or he's not dead, has received treatment (again, assuming mental issues) or has otherwise moved beyond this and is frankly embarrassed about this incident, and would like to forget it and be left alone. Or he's still homeless, living in the streets somewhere and simply isn't going to be recognized.

Honestly, I suspect if he's still alive, whether or not he's homeless, he's still in the general area of Dumfries. The fact that nobody is recognizing him or coming forward strongly suggests to me that they are choosing not to.

 

[suicide]

homeless guy wearing a tie ?

 

[sgtmac_46]

I'm just glad it wasn't in my jurisdiction...

I'm the guy they throw dog cases like this to.

As you've said -- it's hard to say whether the kung fu guy is still alive today, for numerous reasons.

So, let's examine this incident. Let's take it in the worst light; he was mentally ill (would we accuse a preacher of being mentally ill if he said that Jesus Christ told him something? :shrug and was beaten severely including internal injuries. We have to assume he didn't die then & there; the body would almost certainly have been found, and the case investigated. So let's say he was badly hurt, knocked out, and woke up. He climbs out of the dumpster, and goes on about his life. And let's assume that the reports suggesting he may have been homeless are accurate, since one would think if he had family or friends, he'd have been taken to a hospital and this would have been dealt with then.

First possibility: he goes to the hospital. Odds are good that a guy coming in with severe injuries related to a beating is going to be given an opportunity to talk with the cops. So, there'd be a record. It seems pretty clear that both PWPD and Dumfries PD have checked their records without success, from the coverage this has received.

Second possibility: he went off and died of injuries somewhere else. I suppose it's possible that he died in the woods somewhere and the body was never found... In which case we'll probably never know who he was or hear his side.

Third possibility: he recovered, over time. Let's figure he was around 18 to 25 years old in 1984. (I'm making some assumptions based on mental illness etiology and appearance here; he could easily be older. I doubt he's younger.) That puts him in his late forties or early fifties now. If he's been living on the streets -- that's a long time. He may well be dead from lots of different things... Or he's not dead, has received treatment (again, assuming mental issues) or has otherwise moved beyond this and is frankly embarrassed about this incident, and would like to forget it and be left alone. Or he's still homeless, living in the streets somewhere and simply isn't going to be recognized.

Honestly, I suspect if he's still alive, whether or not he's homeless, he's still in the general area of Dumfries. The fact that nobody is recognizing him or coming forward strongly suggests to me that they are choosing not to.

Exactly!

And the FOURTH possibility is that he IS alive, but in some level of incarceration. In which case nothing is going to come of this anyway.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Let's take it in the worst light; he was mentally ill (would we accuse a preacher of being mentally ill if he said that Jesus Christ told him something? :shrug

Many of us would, yes. If I said Jesus Christ inspired me to learn karate, fine. If I said He came down and personally taught me JC Kata, that has a bit of a crazy ring to it.

In the soundtrack, the sensei alludes repeatedly and with extreme sarcasm to the kata that the victim stated he had been taught by Jesus.

One presumes he felt the man was off his rocker and chose to mock him for it.

and was beaten severely including internal injuries. We have to assume he didn't die then & there; the body would almost certainly have been found, and the case investigated.

I beg to differ. Drunks fall into dumpsters all the time, get compacted, and (the ones we know about) are found by the drivers when they dump their loads. One cannot speculate how many are NOT found by drivers when they dump their loads. A man could easily be thrown into a dumpster, die there, and be buried with the trash and none the wiser. In fact, I cannot believe it does NOT happen from time to time.

So let's say he was badly hurt, knocked out, and woke up. He climbs out of the dumpster, and goes on about his life. And let's assume that the reports suggesting he may have been homeless are accurate, since one would think if he had family or friends, he'd have been taken to a hospital and this would have been dealt with then.

If that were the case, then I doubt much could be done about the situation now. I think it's an assumption without much evidence to go on. One sees the bleeding from the head, notes the victim is clearly unconscious, saw the repeated full-force head stomps with such power that the victim's head rebounded against the floor and the metal bars of the device he was trapped against, and saw him dragged, bleeding and moaning but not moving, out the back door. I do not think one can assume he walked away battered and bruised but not seriously injured.

First possibility: he goes to the hospital. Odds are good that a guy coming in with severe injuries related to a beating is going to be given an opportunity to talk with the cops. So, there'd be a record. It seems pretty clear that both PWPD and Dumfries PD have checked their records without success, from the coverage this has received.

Knife and gunshot wounds get police reports. Beatings, less so.

Second possibility: he went off and died of injuries somewhere else. I suppose it's possible that he died in the woods somewhere and the body was never found... In which case we'll probably never know who he was or hear his side.

Hence, the call for his identity by anyone who knew him or knew of him. Seems quite rational to call for that, to determine what might have happened.

Third possibility: he recovered, over time. Let's figure he was around 18 to 25 years old in 1984. (I'm making some assumptions based on mental illness etiology and appearance here; he could easily be older. I doubt he's younger.) That puts him in his late forties or early fifties now. If he's been living on the streets -- that's a long time. He may well be dead from lots of different things... Or he's not dead, has received treatment (again, assuming mental issues) or has otherwise moved beyond this and is frankly embarrassed about this incident, and would like to forget it and be left alone. Or he's still homeless, living in the streets somewhere and simply isn't going to be recognized.

Someone knew him then. If they knew him then, then we have his name and can do more investigation.

Honestly, I suspect if he's still alive, whether or not he's homeless, he's still in the general area of Dumfries. The fact that nobody is recognizing him or coming forward strongly suggests to me that they are choosing not to.

Not everyone is on teh interwebs, not everyone is a user of Youtube. The more this information is disseminated, the better the chances that it will reach the guy who knew this man growing up, or was a next-door-neighbor to the dojo and recalls the incident, etc.

 

[suicide]

if thats the case he was probably a crack head that was paid to have a demonstration demonstrated on him , these types of things happen to crack heads all the time %-}

 

[sgtmac_46]

Case CLOSED!

"We appreciate that the video was sent to us and that people saw it and were concerned," said Sgt. Kim Chinn, a Prince William police spokeswoman.



"This is going to happen more and more now with the Internet, and you often can't tell the times or the dates, who's in the video or if it is real or not."
Capt. Ronald Mackey of the Dumfries Police Department said that the video appears to be real but that police have confirmed that the victim was not killed, since he was interviewed after the fact.



Chuck Feldbush, a retired Prince William police detective, was working a uniformed patrol beat in the Dumfries area in 1984 and said he knew Blythe and the victim. Feldbush, who could not remember the victim's name, said the man was a vagrant who lived in the woods near the dojo. The man occasionally was the target of a nuisance call, someone who would sometimes try to take food off people's plates at the Pizza Hut or steal just to get caught so he could spend some time in jail, where he would be guaranteed a roof and meals.
Feldbush saw the man in the days after the incident and noticed him limping.



"You could tell he had been beaten severely," Feldbush said. "He wasn't very cooperative and didn't want to pursue charges."





"There was some egregious behavior on that video," Feldbush said, adding that he saw it for the first time in recent days. "And it has caused a fervor because of what people have been saying about it. You have an African American male beaten into the ground and he's allegedly murdered and the police did nothing. That's as far from the truth as you can imagine. They've weaved quite a tale here."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/08/30/AR2009083002251.html

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm not quite sure what has got people so 'excercised' about this thread.

Do posters not recall that before the site crash we had two threads on this very issue?

If you have no interest in assisting the OP's intentions then surely simply not posting will suffice?

 

[suicide]

people are acting like if he was rodney king´d - and deserves a 5million dollar settlement !

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Case CLOSED!

So it would appear. Thanks for posting that.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I'm not quite sure what has got people so 'excercised' about this thread.

Do posters not recall that before the site crash we had two threads on this very issue?

If you have no interest in assisting the OP's intentions then surely simply not posting will suffice?

I am assisting the OP......it's a closed case. He didn't die, he was homeless 25 years ago, and is likely either dead or long since lost to the underground world that swallows homeless people up.

The good news is that the circulation of this story has turned Bobby Blythe in to the pariah he deserves to be.......but he isn't likely to face legal or civil penalties.

 

[Sukerkin]

Not a problem, Mac, it was pure coincidence of posting times that meant what I said appeared immediately after your detective work :tup:.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I am assisting the OP......it's a closed case. He didn't die, he was homeless 25 years ago, and is likely either dead or long since lost to the underground world that swallows homeless people up.

The good news is that the circulation of this story has turned Bobby Blythe in to the pariah he deserves to be.......but he isn't likely to face legal or civil penalties.

The only argument I'd have with your statements is your (now deleted) "now we can all move on with our lives" part.

One presumes you meant that we should not have been concerned about this situation in the least. I hope you deleted the comment because you realized that there is nothing wrong with being concerned.

And my life was not at a standstill whilst this video spread in popularity. Believe it or not, I was moving on with my life, and continue to do so.

 

[sgtmac_46]

The only argument I'd have with your statements is your (now deleted) "now we can all move on with our lives" part.

One presumes you meant that we should not have been concerned about this situation in the least. I hope you deleted the comment because you realized that there is nothing wrong with being concerned.

And my life was not at a standstill whilst this video spread in popularity. Believe it or not, I was moving on with my life, and continue to do so.

I deleted it because I knew it would be misinterpreted. The wild speculation made by so many in this viral story was that this guy died, that this was the video of some kind of murder. That's obviously not the case. That's the 'move on with our lives' part I meant.

At face value I concluded this wasn't some guy who subsequently died of his injuries......because of what was on the tape? Nope! Because Blythe posted it. If this guy had died from his beating, there would have been no tape. Blythe is a callous jerk, but not an idiot. He wouldn't post a video of a murder, no matter how callous he is......self-preservation is an amazing thing.

Blythe knew that there was no likelihood of criminal charges because this guy lived, he saw him around after the fact, and the only thing he didn't figure was the outcry.



So what we are left with is a 25 year old assault.......

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I deleted it because I knew it would be misinterpreted. The wild speculation made by so many in this viral story was that this guy died, that this was the video of some kind of murder. That's obviously not the case. That's the 'move on with our lives' part I meant.

I guess I'm misinterpreting you, then. I didn't speculate that the guy did, I said he could have, given the severity of the beating. And if he had, then it would be entirely appropriate to conclude that charges could still be filed.

I disagree that it is 'obviously not the case' except now, in hindsight. If it was 'obviously not the case' prior to this, I'd have no interest in it.

At face value I concluded this wasn't some guy who subsequently died of his injuries......because of what was on the tape? Nope! Because Blythe posted it. If this guy had died from his beating, there would have been no tape. Blythe is a callous jerk, but not an idiot. He wouldn't post a video of a murder, no matter how callous he is......self-preservation is an amazing thing.

I was unaware that Blythe had posted it himself. That does indeed change things. Again, I didn't know it, and I doubt many did.

Blythe knew that there was no likelihood of criminal charges because this guy lived, he saw him around after the fact, and the only thing he didn't figure was the outcry.

And he's clearly got his fans on MT who think he simply gave some guy what he was begging for.

So what we are left with is a 25 year old assault.......

In hindsight, yes. Hard to see how you can suggest people should have not shown any interest BEFORE they knew that.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I guess I'm misinterpreting you, then. I didn't speculate that the guy did, I said he could have, given the severity of the beating. And if he had, then it would be entirely appropriate to conclude that charges could still be filed.

I disagree that it is 'obviously not the case' except now, in hindsight. If it was 'obviously not the case' prior to this, I'd have no interest in it.

It was obvious to me from the very beginning based on the fact that Blythe himself had posted it.

I was unaware that Blythe had posted it himself. That does indeed change things. Again, I didn't know it, and I doubt many did.

That's because they ran with limited information and a whole lot of faulty conclusions.......which is made kind of silly by the fact that the information has been at their fingertips the entire time. It took me 4 minutes of searching to find the whole story.

And he's clearly got his fans on MT who think he simply gave some guy what he was begging for.

I'm not so sure you'll find many that believe that......Blythe is a colossal jerk. You may find quite a few who aren't so worked up over the video of a 25 year old fight. 'What's with all the hysteria?' isn't the same as 'Blythe is my hero'.

In hindsight, yes. Hard to see how you can suggest people should have not shown any interest BEFORE they knew that.

Many folks allow the hysteria of emotion to drive their conclusions....sometimes we need to take a DEEP breath and think first.

This is the same mentality that causes people to forward all those annoying urban legends that I get forwarded all the time in my email box.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

It was obvious to me from the very beginning based on the fact that Blythe himself had posted it.

Blessed are the psychic. I wasn't so clear, and I did not know, as I said, that Blythe had posted it himself.

I'm not so sure you'll find many that believe that......Blythe is a colossal jerk. You may find quite a few who aren't so worked up over the video of a 25 year old fight.

I guess you must have a certain someone on ignore, then. This thread is peppered with his assertions that this was a good thing that deserved to happen.

Many folks allow the hysteria of emotion to drive their conclusions....sometimes we need to take a DEEP breath and think first.

First, no hysteria from me that I'm aware of. Did you note that? Second, I didn't make an conclusions, I asked questions.

This is the same mentality that causes people to forward all those annoying urban legends that I get forwarded all the time in my email box.

Well, I agree with that. I also delete those silly things, and when they sometimes seem as though they MIGHT have a grain of truth to them, I check places like Snopes and factcheck.org before putting any faith in them.

Again, you seem to be saying that people should not have cared about this at all, by implying that anyone who cared what happened to the victim was 'hysterical' and 'jumped to conclusions'. I did neither, and I don't see any reason that I should not have cared about it.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Blessed are the psychic. I wasn't so clear, and I did not know, as I said, that Blythe had posted it himself.

Well, again, it isn't really psychic........a thorough understanding of cause and effect coupled with a little research.

I guess you must have a certain someone on ignore, then. This thread is peppered with his assertions that this was a good thing that deserved to happen.

I was actually hoping some of those were sarcasm to be quite honest.

First, no hysteria from me that I'm aware of. Did you note that? Second, I didn't make an conclusions, I asked questions.

Sure......but there's plenty of this floating around to account for the hysteria comments.....
http://www.phillyd.tv/2009/08/21/instructor-bobby-joe-blythe-films-murder/

Well, I agree with that. I also delete those silly things, and when they sometimes seem as though they MIGHT have a grain of truth to them, I check places like Snopes and factcheck.org before putting any faith in them.

There's a common theme that runs through the urban legends, and it's detectable as BS even before confirming it.

Again, you seem to be saying that people should not have cared about this at all, by implying that anyone who cared what happened to the victim was 'hysterical' and 'jumped to conclusions'. I did neither, and I don't see any reason that I should not have cared about it.

Those who jumped to the conclusion that this guy was murdered were falling victim to hysteria. Care all you want, if you it makes you feel any better. Doesn't change a thing in this case.



I'll leave it at this......Bobby Joe Blythe is a jerk and a bully.......if there's any karma at work he'll break his hip walking to the mailbox to pick up his social security check.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I'll leave it at this......Bobby Joe Blythe is a jerk and a bully.......if there's any karma at work he'll break his hip walking to the mailbox.

From the research *I* did, he was seriously injured in a plane crash whilst crop-dusting some years ago. I'm actually generally quite good at finding information, and always advocate doing one's due diligence before signing on to anything. Which is why I suppose I find your responses interesting; they're not unlike my own. It's just that in this case, I did not know Blythe had posted the video himself to begin with. Failure on my part, perhaps, but it doesn't negate my logical responses since then. "Getting on with my life," notwithstanding.