Please advise re: my kid defending himself
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BLACK LION
Black Belt
our society has a problem with discipline....
parents are afraid to parent thier children.... society places a dark cloud on discipline and children... a short time ago if a child acted up the whole nieghborhood wooped thier behind and then when they got home, they got some more... now it seems as if the kids run the show because parents know people are watching and they dont want to look bad... kids can act out however they want and people just have to deal with it becuase no one wants to raise a finger to em out of fear... people are so quick to call or yell child abuse when it isnt even close.... yet neglects a child being bludgeoned to death or ignores actual beating abuse or torture... priorities are jacked up... it seems to be all about impressing people and not raising quality human beings...
it shouldnt take a kid having to make the decision dozens of grownups there including the parents could have easily made... its the parents fault the child had to use the only tool he had to stop this kid and its the parents fault the other kid got kicked... if the grown ups did thier job the only kicking done would have been on the soccer ball
parents are afraid to parent thier children.... society places a dark cloud on discipline and children... a short time ago if a child acted up the whole nieghborhood wooped thier behind and then when they got home, they got some more... now it seems as if the kids run the show because parents know people are watching and they dont want to look bad... kids can act out however they want and people just have to deal with it becuase no one wants to raise a finger to em out of fear... people are so quick to call or yell child abuse when it isnt even close.... yet neglects a child being bludgeoned to death or ignores actual beating abuse or torture... priorities are jacked up... it seems to be all about impressing people and not raising quality human beings...
it shouldnt take a kid having to make the decision dozens of grownups there including the parents could have easily made... its the parents fault the child had to use the only tool he had to stop this kid and its the parents fault the other kid got kicked... if the grown ups did thier job the only kicking done would have been on the soccer ball
celtic_crippler
Senior Master
ain't it da troof
sgtmac_46
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Society has a contradictory problem....we have a problem with individual discipline because we have replaced it with a nebulous form of bureaucratic discipline. Zero tolerance policies have taken the place of common sense. Common sense is not a function of bureacracies.
allenjp
Brown Belt
This particular issue hits close to home because my son has grown up with the son of very good friends of mine who is "special needs" who used to act out violently a lot. It's hard because of the situation in which a kid sometimes just doesn't understand or is unable to control himself because of his disabilities.
But I have learned the long and hard way that you cannot treat them differently than any other kid in these situations. If your kid has to defend himself, you cannot second guess him. Especially in this situation because you saw the whole thing and you know he was justified.
What I have taught my son (who has trained in MA for 4 years) is that no words are ever enough to justify violence. But once the other child touches him in an offensive manner, or it becomes clear they are going to, he can do whatever it takes to defend himself. He knows not to continue to beat a kid who is no longer a threat, but I refuse to pressure him not to defend himself. My son is very responsible and is not about to start a fight, and I have told him he will be in big trouble if he ever does.
You cannot worry about school policies, they are ridiculous anyway, I have told my son that if he feels he needs to defend himself, he shoudn't worry about the school, as long as he follows my rules I will take care of that part.
Not to sound biased, but a grappling art is always good for kids in that situation...a lot of times it is better for them just to take the other kid down and hold them there until someone breaks it up, it's a little easir to justify than punchng or kicking...
But I have learned the long and hard way that you cannot treat them differently than any other kid in these situations. If your kid has to defend himself, you cannot second guess him. Especially in this situation because you saw the whole thing and you know he was justified.
What I have taught my son (who has trained in MA for 4 years) is that no words are ever enough to justify violence. But once the other child touches him in an offensive manner, or it becomes clear they are going to, he can do whatever it takes to defend himself. He knows not to continue to beat a kid who is no longer a threat, but I refuse to pressure him not to defend himself. My son is very responsible and is not about to start a fight, and I have told him he will be in big trouble if he ever does.
You cannot worry about school policies, they are ridiculous anyway, I have told my son that if he feels he needs to defend himself, he shoudn't worry about the school, as long as he follows my rules I will take care of that part.
Not to sound biased, but a grappling art is always good for kids in that situation...a lot of times it is better for them just to take the other kid down and hold them there until someone breaks it up, it's a little easir to justify than punchng or kicking...
KenpoTex
Senior Master
I think wresting would be a great choice...I wish I'd had the opportunity to do it when I was younger.
sgtmac_46
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Yeah, I have to agree with the grappling art suggestion.....wrestling, BJJ, Judo, all very good systems of self-defense especially for kids.
Someone who uses grappling control on someone else trying to throw punches looks like the 'good guy' to folks watching....even though he has the power to escalate the situation as far as he needs to.....he still 'looks' like he's just hanging on to the guy.
Someone who uses grappling control on someone else trying to throw punches looks like the 'good guy' to folks watching....even though he has the power to escalate the situation as far as he needs to.....he still 'looks' like he's just hanging on to the guy.
Hyper_Shadow
Green Belt
I started my martial arts in Judo. I began when I started secondary school. It helps for younger kids no end, I can personally attest to that.
F
foggymorning162
Guest
First there were way too many great posts to individually thank everyone so I would like to thank everyone now. In regards to you feeling bad about the cleat marks just remember that they were probably caused just as much by the force from Jerry running at your child as from the side kick itself.
I'm glad it worked out for you there is no reason your son should not be able to play just because he HAD to defend himself.
Now for one of my pet peeves parents of children with ADD/ADHD and other behavior problems. We have a student with ADHD who's parents sit and watch his classes and (without being disruptive to the class themselves) make sure that he is not a disruption and is always on his best behavior. There have been others like this although the kids can still sometimes be difficult with the parents help it usually isn't so bad and they child does benefit from class and eventually does not need that constant watchfullness. And then there are the others, some of them have children with legitamate problems some of them I'm not so sure it's not just a label they put on them because it's easier then being a parent. These are the parent who blame everybody else for not understanding their child who expect you to make their child behave but don't feel that you should make them sit out when they're not in control, don't want you to dole out push-ups when they act out. Who when you talk to them about "little Johnny's" behavior (poor Johnny gets a bad rap) fall back on the old well you know he has problems and even when they "talk" to them about their behavior you can tell they aren't going to back it up and the kids know it to. We deal with these kids all the time in MA because they think it is going to be a miracle cure and MA alone will make their child be good. Well with enough patients from the instructor and a parent who keeps torturing said instructor by continuing to bring their child to class this usually is the case but wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if the parents would just get on board and start disciplining their own children. MA can teach them the skills to deal with their problems but without that constant discipline it is a long and tortured road for everyone involved.
I'm glad it worked out for you there is no reason your son should not be able to play just because he HAD to defend himself.
Now for one of my pet peeves parents of children with ADD/ADHD and other behavior problems. We have a student with ADHD who's parents sit and watch his classes and (without being disruptive to the class themselves) make sure that he is not a disruption and is always on his best behavior. There have been others like this although the kids can still sometimes be difficult with the parents help it usually isn't so bad and they child does benefit from class and eventually does not need that constant watchfullness. And then there are the others, some of them have children with legitamate problems some of them I'm not so sure it's not just a label they put on them because it's easier then being a parent. These are the parent who blame everybody else for not understanding their child who expect you to make their child behave but don't feel that you should make them sit out when they're not in control, don't want you to dole out push-ups when they act out. Who when you talk to them about "little Johnny's" behavior (poor Johnny gets a bad rap) fall back on the old well you know he has problems and even when they "talk" to them about their behavior you can tell they aren't going to back it up and the kids know it to. We deal with these kids all the time in MA because they think it is going to be a miracle cure and MA alone will make their child be good. Well with enough patients from the instructor and a parent who keeps torturing said instructor by continuing to bring their child to class this usually is the case but wouldn't it be a whole lot easier if the parents would just get on board and start disciplining their own children. MA can teach them the skills to deal with their problems but without that constant discipline it is a long and tortured road for everyone involved.
i think your son did the right thing bydefending himself but however he used too mucjh force andim trained in bjj and kickboxing im an orange belt in bjj. i would never give into my rage like that you know im not critiziing you im just making a point. i want to be a martial arts instructor someday and tell your son the spinderman talk when there's great power comes great responsability which will limit the amount of force your child should use im not an expert by the way but i wish i was like your son because i have problems with other people and i tend to lash out at anyone insulting me. what should i do if someone makes me feel uncomforable and makes me look bad because i always lash out at them especially when i walk around the naborhood.
Bruno@MT
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You are replying to a thread that is years old and hasn't been replied to since 2008.
Generally it is considered bad manners to dredge up dead threads unless you are adding some vital new information or posting relevant updates.
Generally it is considered bad manners to dredge up dead threads unless you are adding some vital new information or posting relevant updates.
Balrog
Master of Arts
You should be outraged about it. Your son should not have been punished in any way, and if it happens again, he should *NOT* be kicked off the team, Jerry should.
This is lawsuit worthy. It's the only way to bring zero tolerance crap like this to a screeching halt. Let the coach and the school and Jerry's parents know that if Jerry attacks your son again, you'll have Jerry arrested for assault and bring suit against the school.
I say good on your son. He probably only had a split second to relise what was happening and didn't know what to expect and he reacted with a useful defensive move. Noone had any lasting damages or injurys. So their is no true loss from either party.
The parent of "Jerry" should pull their finger out and relise that if their child has a special need. That need MUST be met. If you don't give him his medication but still let him with others in a lesser controlled environment then their is going to be problems.
Its not "Jerry's" fault! Certainly not your sons fault for avoiding himself getting potentially hurt. Comes down to the person in charge of caring for him to make sure his Needs are met.
Luke
The parent of "Jerry" should pull their finger out and relise that if their child has a special need. That need MUST be met. If you don't give him his medication but still let him with others in a lesser controlled environment then their is going to be problems.
Its not "Jerry's" fault! Certainly not your sons fault for avoiding himself getting potentially hurt. Comes down to the person in charge of caring for him to make sure his Needs are met.
Luke
I'm going to go ahead and say your son was 100% in the right.
I was always told as a kid to never let myself get hit physically, and my parents promised me they'd stick up for me if I did use force to defend myself. I never had to. I understand that it's not an approach everyone takes but it meant a lot to me and I'll take the same stance with my kids someday. People forget this, but if you have your parent's support as a kid you can literally forget everyone else. I could have been thrown out of school, banned from playing soccer, basketball, whatever, even kicked out of my martial arts school but if I knew my parents were on my side I was OK.
I was a small kid, a bit awkward and quite quiet, but my martial arts experience let me hold my head high and taught me I could handle whatever I had to. Not that I could fight exceptionally well or anything, but I think you guys know the feeling I mean. It also meant that I never felt the need to pick fights or brag about training.
I was always told as a kid to never let myself get hit physically, and my parents promised me they'd stick up for me if I did use force to defend myself. I never had to. I understand that it's not an approach everyone takes but it meant a lot to me and I'll take the same stance with my kids someday. People forget this, but if you have your parent's support as a kid you can literally forget everyone else. I could have been thrown out of school, banned from playing soccer, basketball, whatever, even kicked out of my martial arts school but if I knew my parents were on my side I was OK.
I was a small kid, a bit awkward and quite quiet, but my martial arts experience let me hold my head high and taught me I could handle whatever I had to. Not that I could fight exceptionally well or anything, but I think you guys know the feeling I mean. It also meant that I never felt the need to pick fights or brag about training.
qft
OKenpo942
Purple Belt
Maybe I missed this somewhere in someone elses post (I just read the first page), but why is the there even an issue that if he defends himself again that he will be off of the team.
My question is, why is the "off his meds" child not off of the team if his outbursts are fairly frequent? If they address the problem, the solution takes care of itself.
Also, I understand that this is kind of punishing the child for his mother's ineptitude, but let the other, at least ten, children play without fear of being attacked by the one child with the problems. I would rather have ten happy kids and one sad kid than one happy troubled child and ten looking over their shoulders wondering if they are going to be attacked.
On a different note, kuddos to your son for having the instinct to protect himself. and doing so in an effective manner that did not cause any lasting damage to the other child.
Thanks,
James
My question is, why is the "off his meds" child not off of the team if his outbursts are fairly frequent? If they address the problem, the solution takes care of itself.
Also, I understand that this is kind of punishing the child for his mother's ineptitude, but let the other, at least ten, children play without fear of being attacked by the one child with the problems. I would rather have ten happy kids and one sad kid than one happy troubled child and ten looking over their shoulders wondering if they are going to be attacked.
On a different note, kuddos to your son for having the instinct to protect himself. and doing so in an effective manner that did not cause any lasting damage to the other child.
Thanks,
James
oftheherd1
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Well, since this old thread has been resurrected, I will just add my thoughts. Discipline is indeed lacking in a great portion of our society. Even some MA instructors of young kids do not enforce dojo discipline for fear of losing students (and money). Shame on them!
School teachers are as bad, or worse. Now I will admit we don't give them the tools we used to. Imagine the outcry if a teacher spanked a kid. The teach would certainly be disciplined, maybe with a firing. Yet how many parents will tell teachers to be sure and make Johnny behave? And why don't the parents do so?
But schools and kids sporting venues all seem to take the same tack. Don't get involved to the point of doing the right thing, when it will be controversial. Kick off the one least likely to retaliate, or both if you can. [/sarcasm mode on]I understand our society has gotten more liberal and lawyers have to make a living too. [.sarcasm mode off].
MA are a great way for kids to learn discipline if you find a school in any MA that upholds that. But parents can't send a "bad" kid to the dojo if they aren't already teaching their kid discipline themselves, in the home. Sorry, there just aren't that many miracles to go around.
School teachers are as bad, or worse. Now I will admit we don't give them the tools we used to. Imagine the outcry if a teacher spanked a kid. The teach would certainly be disciplined, maybe with a firing. Yet how many parents will tell teachers to be sure and make Johnny behave? And why don't the parents do so?
But schools and kids sporting venues all seem to take the same tack. Don't get involved to the point of doing the right thing, when it will be controversial. Kick off the one least likely to retaliate, or both if you can. [/sarcasm mode on]I understand our society has gotten more liberal and lawyers have to make a living too. [.sarcasm mode off].
MA are a great way for kids to learn discipline if you find a school in any MA that upholds that. But parents can't send a "bad" kid to the dojo if they aren't already teaching their kid discipline themselves, in the home. Sorry, there just aren't that many miracles to go around.
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