Generally this falls into the "test one step" category. Gotta show off flexibility and accuracy, but like you said a good instructor shouldnt let their students think thats really how you should block a punch.
Picking a martial art?
- Thread starter kapas
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Generally this falls into the "test one step" category. Gotta show off flexibility and accuracy, but like you said a good instructor shouldnt let their students think thats really how you should block a punch.
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
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Again, I can agree with the practical form of the (traditional karate) low block the way it is often demonstrated. Frankly, the low block (it's form) can get you into as much trouble as it can get you out of. This concept has also been covered in historic MT Forum posts.
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However, the 1-steps are how I came about to really focus on traditional karate "mental clarity," to borrow the phrase from that T. KIME is another mental discipline term that applies here. Of course, if all you can see it Gracie's wiping out strikers like the uke here... then the import of these mental concepts is lost to your type of training....
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The most relevant part of these comments, IMO, is "forging." And then of course what are poster's defining as such....
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ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
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Checked out your site. You hang with some very tough guys. I think that has stilted your overall conclusions. I believe it was you who dismissed my Lyoto Machida LOSS vid (without analysis). So to be fair, I'll be the standup guy and post another Karate vs. MT-Boxing full contact fight vid.
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You said all TMA fight with hands up guard. This Shotokan fights with conventional Shotokan kumite hands held low guard. His opponent holds hand up in typical MT kickboxing fashion, the way you say 'real' blocks work. Don't work at all for this guy. So you would be saying that the Shotokan stylist has a 'bad' instructor & the kickboxer has a 'good' instructor.
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And by the way, I'm not saying the hands up guard doesn't work, it just won't work against a dynamic striker....(see footnote)
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AND so begs the question, how did Shotokan guy learn to guard & strike so well.... including the distancing & timing you speak of. Was it 1-steps or free sparring?
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Footnote: with some qualification of course.
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1. Machidas hands arent low at all.... Theyre not as tight, but theyre high enough he could easily block.
2. You're putting a lot of words in my mouth.
I never dismissed step sparring in this thread, the closest was commenting how certain onesteps are meant to show case accuracy and flexibility, not be realistic.
Nor have I ever said anything bad about any style of Karate. I've defended Karate several times on this site.
I train in both an MMA Gym and a Tang Soo Do School, dont twist my words and make opinions for me.
I dismissed your Machida Loss video because you were using it to implicate Shotokan was weaker than Muay Thai or other striking styles, when Machida has regularly used Shotokan to KO People from nearly every other striking style imaginable.
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
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Fair enough. They are low compared to typical kickboxing guard, IMO.
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Happens to me all the time too. Was commented on in the critique T.
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Now you are guilty. Certainly the point of my statement was the applicability to fighting, the post & vid are that reality context...
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I'm talking about some different points of view in a style we both support. That's a reality.
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So that's how you train. I train differently. Proves nothing by itself. I'm a stanch supporter of MMA too. Said so several time in several posts.... So include my words when you comment.
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In Your Mind. And BTW way, karate as seen in MMA, it has been the MT stylists who have dominated Lyoto Machida & Wonderboy Thompson. However, don't assume by a style label that I am making style-only conclusion when discussing my proposition. I think, however, the MT vs. Karate makes an interesting thesis. These two often seen to go head to head....
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The VALID conclusion that can be made from the Lyoto Machida vid is that Lyoto Machida's Karate / MMA is weaker than Shogun Rua's MT. Proven fact. It's a launching point for discussion. Realistically.
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YOu see, you used mental "head movement" to dodge what you thought I was portraying, when my "strike" wasn't what you thought.
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You aren't dealing with a Noob.... that was another play on words, "feint" in boxing lingo.
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Edit: I love Machida. He's not the last word on traditional karate. A super vid of Machida @ his best was the Rich Franklin fight. Rich Franklin was a former UFC champ I believe.
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Not a single person has said anything along those lines
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
One steps are a limited exercise by their nature. That doesn't mean they are useless, and that's not what I said.
All I said was the example chosen was not a good one to illustrate close work or good one step.
If it's intended to illustrate flexibility, good. Pure form in isolation, good. Application of taekwondo principles not good, distancing and choice of technique not good, therefore close work not good.
I practice one steps often, as a forging tool for application of principle. Treating one step in this way leads to results very different from those in the video.
All I said was the example chosen was not a good one to illustrate close work or good one step.
If it's intended to illustrate flexibility, good. Pure form in isolation, good. Application of taekwondo principles not good, distancing and choice of technique not good, therefore close work not good.
I practice one steps often, as a forging tool for application of principle. Treating one step in this way leads to results very different from those in the video.
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
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I put up some material for discussion. If you are going to talk in absolutes, then take it or leave it.
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See response(s) to Drose427. I appreciated your view, I see it in my dojo. From my perspective, 1-steps are technically limitless.... You don't care for example(s)--OK, the original doubters at my dojo no longer question me.... IMO, 1-steps are NOT an 'isolation" exercise. But yet again, that's often how they are interpreted. There's a historic post that speaks to this issue re the Korean karates such as TKD, that leverage off the Shotokan karate curriculum. Some of the simplifications of the Japanese karates were translated to Korean styles, absent contact with the Okinawan originators of traditional karate.
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Lastly, I AM in concert with your closing sentence, I am NOT with your criticism of the 1-step vid example....
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Thanks for answering....
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
BY THE WAY:
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There are some very articulate, well written historical articles @ MT re TSD. Perhaps our new martial artist should refer to those in his decision making. Drose 427 is also an authority in TSD. I know I'm going to be looking into them. My original TMA teacher started in TKD, then moved on to Chinese Kempo, which when I returned had been transformed into an Okinawan or Japanese kenop style. So a measure of cross-pollination in my karate style, if you will....
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There are some very articulate, well written historical articles @ MT re TSD. Perhaps our new martial artist should refer to those in his decision making. Drose 427 is also an authority in TSD. I know I'm going to be looking into them. My original TMA teacher started in TKD, then moved on to Chinese Kempo, which when I returned had been transformed into an Okinawan or Japanese kenop style. So a measure of cross-pollination in my karate style, if you will....
You are the only one dealing with absolutes
If we're talking self defense, this video is exactly why I'd avoid tkd. As has been mentioned blocking punches with feet is a terrible idea. I'm not a fan of steps though. Some FMA schools work their stick and blade counters in a similiar way, I'm not a fan. In most cases you're ready for the attack, you know what's coming, and only one strike is thrown and the attacker freezes. These drills might have some value at a basic level but I think they're a waste of time for an advanced students.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
As I said, it's not a good example. It is inaccurate to assume that this is what applied Taekwondo self defence actually looks like, and perhaps unwise to write off the whole art of Taekwondo based on that assumption.
Believe me, I don't base my thoughts on tkd from this video alone, it just further confirms my bias. I've done plenty of looking into tkd and trained with many tkd practitioners, some of them very good fighters, most of them not. Tkd has potential but the bad schools vastly outnumber the good and if someone who doesn't know anything martial arts is looking for a school statistically they are more likely to find bad tkd than good, so I recommend tkd be avoided in such cases. But if you just want to get active any school may be fine, I'm talking self defense and fighting ability here. "Good and "bad" are relative terms.
ShotoNoob
Master Black Belt
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I think such is problematic too. Maybe why that's why the Okinawan styles of karate (as a general rule) are hand-centered. I know I'm way better with hands than feet. We've got a number of members of our school who excel at feet.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
That doesn't reflect my experience at all. Then again, I'm not in the US and I look for clubs with a strong and obvious link to Kukkiwon. But that's not hard to find. I have yet to find a 'bad' TKD school. I'm not sure you can really use the word 'statistically' when generalising based on personal experience.
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I think I can use the terminology that tkd is statistically bad for self defense and fighting. At least in the United states it's a reality, it may be different in your country but over here it's an accurate statement.
Gnarlie
Master of Arts
So it's not Taekwondo that's bad, but the way it is trained local to you. Taekwondo is what it is, just because it's trained one way local to you doesn't change the truth of what it actually is. It seems that TKD in the US compared to internationally represents a rather different and misleading picture of Taekwondo as a martial art, so generalisations based on local experiences are also likely to be misleading.
