Self defense in modern Taekwondo

[Flamebearer]

I've never had a problem with my school focusing too much on sparring to the detriment of self-defense. Possibly because it's a more traditional school...
Do more traditional schools tend to be less single-track - more focused on developing the whole martial artist instead of winning trophies?
-Flamebearer

 

[bignick]

Not a single iota of offense is meant to anyone here, but I find it interesting that everybody's school here is much more "traditional", or "focused on SD", etc...

Nothing implied...I wonder if it's just that only those in that type of school choose to respond, or this type of forum draws people from those type of schools.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with focusing on the competition aspect of taekwondo as long as you know that's what your getting. Just like going out and playing a pickup game of basketball or something...do it, have fun, enjoy it ...just don't think you've now got the skills to go pro.

 

[Hollywood1340]

IMO it's that most people fail to see the truth of TKD. That the forms many of us perform are NOT ancient, but recent inventions to distinguish our art from those of Japan. That it IS a modern art and as much as many of us wish to believe it, it was never a combat art to begin with. TKD that is.

 

[Gemini]

Not a single iota of offense is meant to anyone here, but I find it interesting that everybody's school here is much more "traditional", or "focused on SD", etc...

Nothing implied...I wonder if it's just that only those in that type of school choose to respond, or this type of forum draws people from those type of schools.

Honestly, I think that pretty much sums it up. I think I know most of the TKDers here and most are based in SD schools. However, many like my own focus a good deal on sparring also, if that's what you want to do. Though we do welcome and support the sport schools much more than other forums, we don't get many replies from them. I think because of all the sport TKD bashing, they tend to keep a low profile on MA boards.

 

[bignick]

That's unfortunate, even if you don't agree with their training methods we could all at least learn a lot from their work ethic.

 

[Gemini]

Yes, it is. Even if that aspect doesn't encompass as much of the art as ours, I can assure you, there's nothing "fake" about it. But with all the flaming I've seen them take, I don't blame them for the low profile. Who would want to spend all their time posting, defending what they've chosen to do. That's why I like it here so much. Few people spend time having to go through that.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I guess to me nobody really cares about the self-defense applications of soccer or vollyball and if the sport aspect of Taekwondo is what you're into, that's great; enjoy it and do well.

It does seem though that at this board everyone seems to take MA so darn seriously and that if you don't train to use your art to defend you from armed biker gangs then you're not doing it right. So I think somone who *would* be interested in Taekwondo only as a sport would not feel very welcome, which is a shame because everyone fundamentally uses the same basic techniques so I think a lot could be learned all around.

Which is ironic because if by "MMA" you mean "UFC", "Pride", "K1", etc..., as many seem to, those are just sports as well, and it's hard to really take sword arts serioulsy as self-defense in today's society either. And so on. There are a lot of aspects and practices in MA today that are really just for sport but for some reason, sport-oriented Taekwondo seems to be looked down upon

 

[ajs1976]

I'm not sure where my school stands as far as SD and sport.

With my old instructor our one-steps and Hoshinsul were the SD part of the curriculum. The the ratio was probably about 60% sport to 40% SD.

We had a new head instructor start at the beginning of October. Since then the focus seems to be on sparring, forms, and conditioning. I know he is trying to figure out were all the students are at and correcting things, so i'm not sure if this is the new direction or if the other aspects will come back into focus.

 

[arnisador]

It does seem though that at this board everyone seems to take MA so darn seriously and that if you don't train to use your art to defend you from armed biker gangs then you're not doing it right.

I'm not sure I agree. Everyone knows that Judo and wrestling are sports, and most people realize that MMA and Sambo have large sport components. There was a boxing forum here for a while, and a (Western) fencing forum, let alone discussions of Kendo, etc.

I think the disconnect for people in regards to TKD is that, more than, say, Judo, TKD claims to be both a sport and self-defense, or has many who claim it's a sport and many others who claim it's self-defense. I can see where all this can be true...but it's less of a united front than, say, the savateurs have. They'll tell you that le boxe francais is a sport, that has self-defense benefits.

I think people are looking for TKD to declare itself primarily a sport. Frankly I don't think that would be fully accurate, myself...but I think that's the hang-up for many people.

 

[bignick]

Everyone knows that Judo and wrestling are sports

:shrug:

 

[Gemini]

:shrug:

Well, almost everyone.....:uhyeah:

 

[bignick]

There's actually a lot of infighting/political B.S. about this in the United States Judo Association (USJA) about matters like this.

 

[arnisador]

Well, no one would deny that Judo is a sport--an Olympic one, in fact. I think it's excellent self-defense for many of the same reasons that BJJ is--most notably, the live training against a resisting opponent--but it's a sport.

Boxing is first and foremost a sport. It's also great self-defense. Ditto for Muay Thai.

But, their primary identity is as a sport, I'd say. Does the USJA devote more time to tournaments or to self-defense clinics?

 

[bignick]

But, their primary identity is as a sport, I'd say. Does the USJA devote more time to tournaments or to self-defense clinics?

That's were the infighting comes in. There's actually a pretty good number of schools that practice Judo as a martial art or as self defense, or just as a lifelong activity and former board focused heavily on competition, and not just competition but the elite level competitors....that combined with some allegations of abuse of power, misuse of funds has lead to some ugliness...

But not the right forum, perhaps we'll hop over the Judo/Jujutsu forum...

 

[arnisador]

But not the right forum, perhaps we'll hop over the Judo/Jujutsu forum...

I'll see you there!

 

[Flamebearer]

I guess to me nobody really cares about the self-defense applications of soccer or vollyball and if the sport aspect of Taekwondo is what you're into, that's great; enjoy it and do well.

It does seem though that at this board everyone seems to take MA so darn seriously and that if you don't train to use your art to defend you from armed biker gangs then you're not doing it right.

I suppose what really matters is the mentality with which you approach sport TKD. I would say that one of the attributes of a martial artist is seeing self-defense applications in everything, even in a soccer kick or a volleyball spike. If I chose to attend a sport TKD school I would do so with that kind of mentality - and I might end up benefitting from the techniques they teach. Even if the techniques themselves aren't practical for street defense, they would still develop stamina/balance/etc. Maybe "doing it right" depends upon the manner of your approach.
-Flamebearer

 

[Gemini]

The fundamentals to do either successfully are the same. To truly acheive these is no small task in any art/sport.

Range
Timing
Power
Conditioning
Mental control

Which is why, when I hear "people who practice sport TKD can't fight in the street", I have to bite my lip. If someone has a good self-knowledge of these, I wouldn't dismiss their abilities too easily. That kind of generalization could be a huge mistake.

 

[MountainSage]

I've read this thread through several times and I think I have found the problem. Most of you folks are debating skills not fight theory. Yes, TKD has the skills to be both a sport and self-defense, much like many other martial arts and combative sports. Were TKD lacks, like many other combat sports, is in the use of sport mentality. Fight for a given amount of time under a set rule system. This type of fighting causes people to acquire bad habits that will get you killed on the street, like not keeping your hands up for protection. On the street you want to put an attack down fast and hard, there really isn't time for thinking. I read at one time that the average street fight last 30 seconds or 3-5 striking encounters total.

Mike Wood
Mountainsage

 

[Gemini]

I've read this thread through several times and I think I have found the problem. Most of you folks are debating skills not fight theory.

I don't think you found the problem, Mike. There wasn't a problem to find. Skills is what the topic is about and what's being discussed.

I don't think anyone would disagree with your theory. If you'd like to start a thread about it, feel free. I'll join in.

Regards,

 

[terryl965]

I don't think you found the problem, Mike. There wasn't a problem to find. Skills is what the topic is about and what's being discussed.

I don't think anyone would disagree with your theory. If you'd like to start a thread about it, feel free. I'll join in.

Regards,

Geminin I would have to agree with your Statement.
Mountainsage alot of TKD'ers would fair pretty darn well in the street. A well connected roundhouse to the head will do damage in the ring or the street. I know the mass conception is TKD is all flash, I guess alot of people forget about the training we do and the power behind of our kicks, and yes alot of TKD'ers keep the hands up. Most Not all know the difference between ring and street.
Terry Lee Stoker