Palin's Motherhood in the media
- Thread starter Mark L
- Start date
Honestly I do not think that any high level politicians are interested in maintaining standards. Look at all the scandals on both sides. Neither party should really cast stones.
As for scrutiny well every politician small time or big time better be prepared as you are under a microscope. That is just the reality of the world now a days with 24 hour news casters all looking for that next juicy story.
astrobiologist
Brown Belt
Hey gang,
As far as politics go, I'm an independant (I kind of have issues with both dem.s and rep.s, but libertarians can be pretty cool and teh green party just needs something more). I've been planning on voting for Obama. I said years ago that I could vote for McCain, but I started feeling like he was going to be 4 more years of Bush when he started his campaign. I have to say, though, I like Palin and I can't stand Biden. Now I'm kind of stuck. Obama could be great with a crappy VP, and McCain could be horrible with an awesome VP, or I could be totally wrong in what I've thought so far. Anyways, I read and pay attention enough that I'll be ready when it comes time to press that button...
To the topic at hand... I was 17 years old when my ex told me she was pregnant. Though we were both pro-choice (and still are!), we decided that an abortion was wrong for us. We didn't do anything to prevent the pregnancy, we knew we would help each other through it, and we had families who cared enough to support us as well. We did, however, decide upon an adoption. I'm 25 today (my birthday)! We had a street fair in our town about two weeks ago. I saw the adoptive mother and my son at the fair. She and I started talking and she introduced me to my son (as a family friend). My son is 7 this year and I spoke to him for the first time a few weeks ago
! I may have only made 1 real big decision as a teenage father, but it was hard and probably the best one I could have made at that time.
I'm glad that Palin is being so supportive of her daughter and her decision. It shows strength, honor, and spirit. Also, her daughter needs her mother's support. She also needs America to butt the heck out of her business...
If Palin were Obama's running mate, I think the Republicans would act just the same as the Democrats are acting now. Above all, though, it's the media and a gossip-lusting public which are the true culprits here. Obama has taken a firm stance on the issue and it is a good one.
Though
As far as politics go, I'm an independant (I kind of have issues with both dem.s and rep.s, but libertarians can be pretty cool and teh green party just needs something more). I've been planning on voting for Obama. I said years ago that I could vote for McCain, but I started feeling like he was going to be 4 more years of Bush when he started his campaign. I have to say, though, I like Palin and I can't stand Biden. Now I'm kind of stuck. Obama could be great with a crappy VP, and McCain could be horrible with an awesome VP, or I could be totally wrong in what I've thought so far. Anyways, I read and pay attention enough that I'll be ready when it comes time to press that button...
To the topic at hand... I was 17 years old when my ex told me she was pregnant. Though we were both pro-choice (and still are!), we decided that an abortion was wrong for us. We didn't do anything to prevent the pregnancy, we knew we would help each other through it, and we had families who cared enough to support us as well. We did, however, decide upon an adoption. I'm 25 today (my birthday)! We had a street fair in our town about two weeks ago. I saw the adoptive mother and my son at the fair. She and I started talking and she introduced me to my son (as a family friend). My son is 7 this year and I spoke to him for the first time a few weeks ago
! I may have only made 1 real big decision as a teenage father, but it was hard and probably the best one I could have made at that time.I'm glad that Palin is being so supportive of her daughter and her decision. It shows strength, honor, and spirit. Also, her daughter needs her mother's support. She also needs America to butt the heck out of her business...
If Palin were Obama's running mate, I think the Republicans would act just the same as the Democrats are acting now. Above all, though, it's the media and a gossip-lusting public which are the true culprits here. Obama has taken a firm stance on the issue and it is a good one.
Though
OP
OP
Mark L
Brown Belt
Well, I'm guessing that's opinion too. McCain's clearly indicated he knew about the pregnancy before the nomination, and put her up anyway. I don't think he's been blindsided at all.
We'll all get to express our opinions about her readiness in a few short months. I, for one, am ready for some leadership from someone other than a career politician.
kwaichang
Purple Belt
I understand that point of view, however, at this time in our history, I cannot expect "leadership" from someone who barely knows where the subway is for congress.
I know I did things as a teenager myself.
My point was that people who think they can stick their head in the sand and ignore things and or think that their child is perfect and then want to make their campaign the "Ethical" campaign, is where I have my problems.
The teenager did what teenagers do.
I do not have the video feed.
But CNN posted in words that she was Pro Life. Nothing wrong with that if that is your choice.
So, please send your anger to CNN for getting it wrong!
Ray
Master Black Belt
Is that your most important criterion? And are you sure she doesn't (if there is one)?
Big Don
Sr. Grandmaster
You mean like how her brother and son are under investigation for numerous crimes?
Ooops, that's Biden's brother and son...
MOST ETHICAL CONGRESS EVER
Oh, or how that Republican had $90,000 in his freezer, and diverted National Guard Troops DURING Hurricane Katrina so he could remove stuff from his home?
Ooops, that was William Jefferson DEMOCRAT,
MOST ETHICAL CONGRESS EVER
Or how that well known Republican sold the same land twice.
Ooops, that was Harry Reid
MOST ETHICAL CONGRESS EVER
Or how that Republican left hundreds of school buses to flood, rather than evacuate in a disaster?
Ooops, Ray "School Bus" "Chocolate City" Nagin
Or how that republican consorts with unrepentant terrorists and bought his house with a sweetheart deal from a slum lord?
Oh, Ooops! OBAMA
Your decrying of ethics claims overlook a number of democrats with ethical issues...
So am I.
But it appears that our nation has degenerated to the extent that it is impossible to have a fair, positive and issues oriented campaign.
These 4 candidates should offer an extremely welcome alternative to 2 decades of Bush - Clinton polarization.... we should be able to be excited about this choice. Instead, same old HS.
This country may be beyond reunification.
OP
OP
Mark L
Brown Belt
I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Leadership qualities have exactly nothing to do with ones' familiarity with the public transit system of a city on the other side of the continent.
OP
OP
Mark L
Brown Belt
I think you are correct, it is impossible to focus on the issues and the divisiveness of our two party system is fixed. That was kind of my point in starting the thread. We're bombarded with the very first consanguine thing the media/leftists can come up with to serve their purpose, rather than having a fresh look at a new (to the national stage) public servant. It's maddening to me.
I fear our nation is well into an unavoidable decline, much like the Romans of antiquity.
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
Gee, Big Don...thanks for that nice big serving of Red Herring.
I'll weigh in on the Bristol Palin issue, and then maybe address the fish selections on tonight's menu.
Kudos to Obama for not allowing his crew to go after Bristol for her pregnancy, or after her mother for being one month pregnant when she eloped with her husband Todd. As Obama pointed out, his mother was unwed when pregnant with him.
First, to Twin Fist's reference to Palin being pro-contraception we have this from ABC:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5711359&page=1
"Specifically, Palin has a record of opposing any school-based sexual education program other than those that adopt an abstinence-only approach. During her 2006 Alaska gubernatorial campaign, Palin responded to a question on sex education programs with the answer, "The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support."
What can't be avoided here is the irony of the situation. Palin and her daughter both failed to use abstinence in their own lives, yet Palin publicly states she wouldn't support alternative programs as governor of Alaska.
Note that I say "irony" and not "hypocrisy." It is quite possible that Palin formulated her abstinence values subsequent to her first pregnancy (indeed, she may not have known she was pregnant when she eloped) and wished that for her daughters. Perhaps her daughter's struggles will cause her to reconsider her abstinence-only stance.
Another word that I won't use is "immoral." This isn't an issue of morality as I see it. Bristol wasn't being sinful. She isn't a "slut." Neither was Jamie Lynn Spears, who also elected to not abort...and who, it should be noted...was reviled by the Religious Right only a few months ago for being a tramp. Spear's mother was also hung out to dry as a bad parent.
As far as I can tell, those same voices that were hectoring Spears are now silent, or supportive perhaps, of Bristol Palin and her mother.
My point is this: The bulk of the "virtuecrats" (to borrow a term from writer Dan Savage) reside in the Republican party...or at least have for the last twenty years or so. That has shifted quite a bit, as evangelical voters have moved to more moderate positions. Disenchanted with party and pastor scandals over the last five years (Vitter, Craig, Haggard, Foley, Allen, Murphy), they've moved towards the center and a great many of them have started laying off the sanctimonious and biddy-like behavior that has made them a stereotype and target of mockery.
McCain, not realizing the shift in demographics, hoped to pull them back with his selection of Palin. It may not work. Republican hypocrisy (and here I use the word freely) when it comes to sex and attitudes towards sex, has helped ruin the Republican brand.
Regards,
Steve
I'll weigh in on the Bristol Palin issue, and then maybe address the fish selections on tonight's menu.
Kudos to Obama for not allowing his crew to go after Bristol for her pregnancy, or after her mother for being one month pregnant when she eloped with her husband Todd. As Obama pointed out, his mother was unwed when pregnant with him.
First, to Twin Fist's reference to Palin being pro-contraception we have this from ABC:
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5711359&page=1
"Specifically, Palin has a record of opposing any school-based sexual education program other than those that adopt an abstinence-only approach. During her 2006 Alaska gubernatorial campaign, Palin responded to a question on sex education programs with the answer, "The explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support."
What can't be avoided here is the irony of the situation. Palin and her daughter both failed to use abstinence in their own lives, yet Palin publicly states she wouldn't support alternative programs as governor of Alaska.
Note that I say "irony" and not "hypocrisy." It is quite possible that Palin formulated her abstinence values subsequent to her first pregnancy (indeed, she may not have known she was pregnant when she eloped) and wished that for her daughters. Perhaps her daughter's struggles will cause her to reconsider her abstinence-only stance.
Another word that I won't use is "immoral." This isn't an issue of morality as I see it. Bristol wasn't being sinful. She isn't a "slut." Neither was Jamie Lynn Spears, who also elected to not abort...and who, it should be noted...was reviled by the Religious Right only a few months ago for being a tramp. Spear's mother was also hung out to dry as a bad parent.
As far as I can tell, those same voices that were hectoring Spears are now silent, or supportive perhaps, of Bristol Palin and her mother.
My point is this: The bulk of the "virtuecrats" (to borrow a term from writer Dan Savage) reside in the Republican party...or at least have for the last twenty years or so. That has shifted quite a bit, as evangelical voters have moved to more moderate positions. Disenchanted with party and pastor scandals over the last five years (Vitter, Craig, Haggard, Foley, Allen, Murphy), they've moved towards the center and a great many of them have started laying off the sanctimonious and biddy-like behavior that has made them a stereotype and target of mockery.
McCain, not realizing the shift in demographics, hoped to pull them back with his selection of Palin. It may not work. Republican hypocrisy (and here I use the word freely) when it comes to sex and attitudes towards sex, has helped ruin the Republican brand.
Regards,
Steve
Darth F.Takeda
Blue Belt
Roe v Wade should be overturned, so it can go back to the Sates where they belong.
So much of what the Dems and the Libs want on a National scale, are State and local issues. If Mass wants socialized health care, let them, if Va does not, fine.
If California wants Gays to marry, let them, if Nebraska does not, deasl with it.
The Feds are for upholding the Constitution, regulating interstate commerce, relations with other Nations and going to war if it's in our defense or national intrest, not much more they were ment to do.
If you want your state to pay for a bunch of social programs, fine, live in states where the people vote for it, but dont increase my taxes for stand in line behind the illegal health care.
Lower my traxes and I'll get my own.
Don,
I asked you before to debate me.
You refused to reply.
You are letting your ignorance show.
You knee jerk to issues and attack people even if it just sarcasm.
First I never said that Obama was the right choice. So never put words in my mouth.
Second never assume anything about me or you will find it had to believe that your little world is shattered so easily.
Third, I still await a debate upon your ethics anytime you want to step down from your mountain high and put your feet back on the ground.
Fourth, I never said it was wrong for others such as yourself to support Palin and McCain. Someone created this forum in the study where people get to express their opinions within the rules of this site.
I wish you to continue to have a nice day, and I will continue to wait for an intelligent reply with well thought out examples and points. Not just emotional BS that both parties want people all to concentrate upon and not look at any real issues.
I expressed my opinion, I guess you are also allowed to express your opinion, but as you seem to spout off so much, I had hopes to have discourse not just an elementary yelling fight of my party is better or bigger than your party. Substitute Dad or Brother for party to see my point.
Steve,
I do not think Sex is bad. I do not think that the teenagers did a bad thing. I do not hold Mrs Palin to her past as you stated she could have formulated her position after she found out she was pregnant. But, I personally find it hard to listen to people who want to guide / lead me in ethics when they cannot consider about others.
She could recover, if she stepped down from the ethical approach, and stated that people including herself and daughter and future son-in-law as human. I will not say they made a mistake, yet that humans are different (* and I am thankful for that *) which is a good thing and means people will disagree and children will disagree with their parents and they will make their own choices.
I do agree with your last two paragraphs.
Thank you for expressing your points so I can read them.
Yes, and this irony has been putting sardonic grins on left-leaning writers faces as they gleefully exposit various metaphors in order to enhance it.
I'm just sick of it.
It's not that I agree with the "virtuecrats" it's just that I feel that there are things that are so much more important to debate.
If this is all the "left" and the "right" of this false dichotomy want to talk about, then I think its time to look for the men behind the curtain.
I hear ya! I don't agree with the abstinence only programs and think contraception should be included in sex ed. Those pundits would actually have pretty good point if people that have been through government administered sex ed classes that weren't 'abstinence only' didn't get pregnant. Yes, I understand that studies show such and such, but minors with the best sex ed available get pregnant.
I also get a pretty good kick out of people throwing the Spears family into the mix. I guess it's payback for the Paris comparison. LOL!
oops...
a few naughty words in here:
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a few naughty words in here:
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