O'Reilly -Tides prove God!

[Ken Morgan]

Since you are already going to hell, it is just a question about where exactly you end up. Try this test:

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv

I answered absolutely honestly.....Oh...this can't be good...
Sixth Level of Hell - The City of Dis

You approach Satan's wretched city where you behold a wide plain surrounded by iron walls. Before you are fields full of distress and torment terrible. Burning tombs are littered about the landscape. Inside these flaming sepulchers suffer the heretics, failing to believe in God and the afterlife, who make themselves audible by doleful sighs. You will join the wicked that lie here, and will be offered no respite. The three infernal Furies stained with blood, with limbs of women and hair of serpents, dwell in this circle of Hell.



Here is how you matched up against all the levels:

(

LevelWho are sent there?ScorePurgatory Repenting Believers Very LowLevel 1 - Limbo Virtuous Non-Believers Very LowLevel 2 Lustful Very HighLevel 3 Gluttonous HighLevel 4 Prodigal and Avaricious HighLevel 5 Wrathful and Gloomy Very HighLevel 6 - The City of Dis Heretics ExtremeLevel 7 Violent HighLevel 8- the Malebolge Fraudulent, Malicious, Panderers Very HighLevel 9 - Cocytus Treacherous Very High

 

[Tez3]

I don't know, Helen of Troy, fighting and endless pork roast...seems 2nd lvl of hell and Valhalla look a lot a like!

(I will see if we can throw a cow on the spit as well)

Do we really want Sarah Palin there as well?

 

[granfire]

Do we really want Sarah Palin there as well?

uhhhhhh........

got me there... I am sure there will somebody there to be her punishment tho...

 

[Carol]

I answered absolutely honestly.....Oh...this can't be good...
Sixth Level of Hell - The City of Dis

You did better than I did, you were only a heretic. I'm one of the violent ones so I'm going down to the 7th level of hell.

Just walk quietly on my ceiling mmmkay?

 

[granfire]

oh damn
5th level of hell...

<shrug> then again , I knew I was EVUL.....

he river Styx runs through this level of Hell, and in it are punished the wrathful and the gloomy. The former are forever lashing out at each other in anger, furious and naked, tearing each other piecemeal with their teeth. The latter are gurgling in the black mud, slothful and sullen, withdrawn from the world. Their lamentations bubble to the surface as they try to repeat a doleful hymn, though with unbroken words they cannot say it. Because you lived a cruel, vindictive and hateful life, you meet your fate in the Styx.

(I bet checking 'female' knocks you down 3 level....)

 

[SensibleManiac]

Walk toward the place where the sun rises in the morning......

Then you are using THAT as your compass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SensibleManiac

my moral compass is reason and compassion, the only compass you'll ever need.

The only one that works.

For you, anyway-I hope it works better than your metaphors do....

At least there is proof behind it.

Actually the place I first was made deeply aware of the importance of compassion was in reading (I believe) it was Proverbs, in the healing of a leper. It was Jesus himself who was purported with saying that without it the laws don't matter. That the highest place a person could come from was from compassion.

This did deeply influence me and I studied on it further.

I never said there was nothing good about religion.

Just that reason and compassion were more important barometers for our morality than religion which is actualy quite limited.

 

[SensibleManiac]

Oh yeah, and...

name your group and somebody thinks they are going to hell

The Thursday evening bridge club for spinsters at the seniors centre.....

For sure they are going to hell, everyone knows that club it just an excuse for old folks to meet and get laid...:EG:

 

[Tez3]

Oh yeah, and...



For sure they are going to hell, everyone knows that club it just an excuse for old folks to meet and get laid...:EG:

Don't be so sure that's a joke. It just gets better as you get older!

 

[Blade96]

Since you are already going to hell, it is just a question about where exactly you end up. Try this test:

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv


My destination is here:

mine is here:

The wretched King Minos has decided your fate. His tale wraps around his body 5 times.

The sweet light no longer strikes against your eyes. Your shade has been banished to... the Fifth Level of Hell! ​

Fifth Level of Hell

The river Styx runs through this level of Hell, and in it are punished the wrathful and the gloomy. The former are forever lashing out at each other in anger, furious and naked, tearing each other piecemeal with their teeth. The latter are gurgling in the black mud, slothful and sullen, withdrawn from the world. Their lamentations bubble to the surface as they try to repeat a doleful hymn, though with unbroken words they cannot say it. Because you lived a cruel, vindictive and hateful life, you meet your fate in the Styx.


Here is how you matched up against all the levels:

(Click on a level for more info)

LevelWho are sent there?Score Purgatory Repenting Believers Very Low Level 1 - Limbo Virtuous Non-Believers Moderate Level 2 Lustful High Level 3 Gluttonous Low Level 4 Prodigal and Avaricious Very Low Level 5 Wrathful and Gloomy Extreme Level 6 - The City of Dis Heretics Very High Level 7 Violent Extreme Level 8- the Malebolge Fraudulent, Malicious, Panderers High Level 9 - Cocytus Treacherous Low

 

[Cirdan]

Wow, all you girls are judged for your wrathful and violent natures.. is it that time of month?

Looks like we are going to have the party on the fifth too, travel distance considered. Carol bring some fire from the seventh so we can get the BBQ started please.

No gluttons, avaricious, frauds or traitors yet tho (souldn`t be suprised since this is MT).. and of course no repentant souls

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Just that reason and compassion were more important barometers for our morality than religion which is actualy quite limited.

Interesting.

Reason has been used to commit some of the world's greatest attrocities.

Compassion is an arbitrary concept. Is it more compassionate to spank a child to teach a lesson and prevent further wrongdoing or not? You'll get vigorous debate on both sides of the issue here.

Combining the two, who do we use our reasonable compassion to help? Is it reasonable to hurt others who are further away from us in order to help those closer to us, whether emotionally or geographically, or by what ever other measure you would use.

Just trying to figure out how they are more important barometers then religion.

 

[Empty Hands]

Just trying to figure out how they are more important barometers then religion.

Religion is not arbitrary? Religion is not used to justify immoral behavior?

The root of all religion is subject to Socrates' incisive question:

"Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

What is pious (moral) is either arbitrary based on the desires of a god or independent of divinity.

 

[Ken Morgan]

TEZ, did I miss it? What level of Hell are you going to? Inquiring minds wish to know... :angel:

 

[granfire]

TEZ, did I miss it? What level of Hell are you going to? Inquiring minds wish to know... :angel:

She'll rule from the bottom of the pit, making Satan wish she never crossed the threshhold!

 

[Ken Morgan]

She'll rule from the bottom of the pit, making Satan wish she never crossed the threshhold!

Satan will be TEZ's *****.

 

[Cirdan]

She'll rule from the bottom of the pit, making Satan wish she never crossed the threshhold!

She`ll be stuck in purgatory since neither side dare let her in. I think she should consider converting so she can join me in Valhalla instead.

 

[Tez3]

TEZ, did I miss it? What level of Hell are you going to? Inquiring minds wish to know... :angel:

Er actually it is Purgatory! I don't know what to say about the rest lol!

 

[billc]

"Those who are merciful when they must be cruel, will, in the end, be cruel to those who deserve mercy."

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Religion is not arbitrary?

I never made a comment on the arbitrariness, or lack thereof, regarding religion. I merely represented the fact that the reason coupled with compassion can be cruel and arbitrary itself. Therefore, I questioned how it can be "better barometer".

However, religious rules are only arbitrary if they are not true. Nothing of the kind can be said for reason coupled with compassion.

Religion is not used to justify immoral behavior?

I said no such thing.

The root of all religion is subject to Socrates' incisive question:

"Is the pious loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is loved by the gods?"

Not really.

For instance, Christianity answered the fact that God (of the Bible) loves all mankind, therefore that question is answered.

Not all religions have gods, therefore this question would be irrelevant.

What is pious (moral) is either arbitrary based on the desires of a god or independent of divinity.

This poses an interesting question, but ultimately irrelevant to our discussion.

If god is the ultimate creator of the existence and all that it entails, and nothing exist but by it's will, then god has the right to make up such rules as he sees fit. Just like your job, you can choose not to obey the rules of the gods in terms of morallity, but then you suffer the consequences.

 

[Empty Hands]

I never made a comment on the arbitrariness, or lack thereof, regarding religion. I merely represented the fact that the reason coupled with compassion can be cruel and arbitrary itself. Therefore, I questioned how it can be "better barometer".

Because a more meaningful and non-arbitrary set of guiding morality can be developed. One that doesn't rely on Authority without justification. Perhaps in any one instance, it will not be a better barometer. Overall though, it has the potential to be much greater.

However, religious rules are only arbitrary if they are not true. Nothing of the kind can be said for reason coupled with compassion.

There are many non-arbitrary standards one could develop such a standard by. Utilitarianism, for instance. Of course, I suppose you could claim a desire to avoid harm, or to produce the greatest good is in itself arbitrary, but given the clear preferences of billions of people and the overwhelming evidence that pain, happiness, fear and the like are all real, it basically becomes solipsism.

For instance, Christianity answered the fact that God (of the Bible) loves all mankind, therefore that question is answered.

That answers nothing. God's love has nothing to do with whether his love as a moral good or moral guide is based on his own subjective desires, or if love is good independent of God's desires.

Not all religions have gods, therefore this question would be irrelevant.

All religions offer proscriptions on behavior, and a claim as to what is moral behavior. If those religions use the supernatural as an explanation for this morality, then the question is valid. If those religions do not use the supernatural as an explanation for anything, then they probably aren't religions.

This poses an interesting question, but ultimately irrelevant to our discussion.

If god is the ultimate creator of the existence and all that it entails, and nothing exist but by it's will, then god has the right to make up such rules as he sees fit. Just like your job, you can choose not to obey the rules of the gods in terms of morallity, but then you suffer the consequences.

So certain behaviors are moral because and only because God will punish you if you do not obey? What does morality even mean in such a context? If certain Bibles are to be believed, God once commanded Abraham to kill his son in God's honor. Murder thus becomes moral because God says so? Genocide of the Canaanites becomes moral because God says so? Wholesale rape of the Canaanite women becomes moral because God says so?

If so, then all of us here are more moral than God.

This is exactly what Socrates was getting at. Arbitrary desires are one answer to the question, and not a very satisfying one.