O'Reilly -Tides prove God!

[5-0 Kenpo]

I know this is going to get me into trouble, but...

As an atheist, I have been told by multiple Christians multiple times that:

1. I'm going to hell since I don't believe in their god

This has nothing to do with saying that you are inferior, immoral, or capable of being good.

2. I cannot have a moral compass without religion

Lack of a moral compass has nothing to do with being inferior, immoral, or capability of being good. It means that you don't have a proper frame of reference. Anyone walking east in this country can reach the Atlantic Ocean, whether you have a reference or not.
.

3. I am stupid for not agreeing with them that the wonders of the universe could only have bee created by God.

Stupid denotes a lack of knowledge, but has nothing to do with being inferior, immoral, or capable of being good.

4. I've also had children at school tell my kids they can't play with them because they don't go to church.

And that, again, has nothing to do with you being inferior, immoral, or capability to do go. It is what you believe that they think of you, but nothing that they have told you. You are infering that based on your own biases. Perhaps it is merely that your children, not attending church, does not allow those other children's parents a frame of reference for your children's upbringing, and therefore they do not want their children to potentially be led down a negative path.

So in my experience, all of the above does happen quite regularly. I absolutely agree that the central tenet of Christianity is to "love thy neighbor", but it seems that many have missed this lesson.

Or, like another tenet of Christianity, that all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God.

 

[Cryozombie]

As an atheist, I have been told by multiple Christians multiple times that:

1. I'm going to hell since I don't believe in their god

2. I cannot have a moral compass without religion

3. I am stupid for not agreeing with them that the wonders of the universe could only have bee created by God.

4. I've also had children at school tell my kids they can't play with them because they don't go to church.

So in my experience, all of the above does happen quite regularly. I absolutely agree that the central tenet of Christianity is to "love thy neighbor", but it seems that many have missed this lesson.

Of course on the flipside of this, I can't tell you how many times I have been told that

1) I'm a moron

2) Only a brainless idiot would believe this stuff

3) My beliefs are repressing and murdering people

4) I'm associating myself with radicals and child molesters

5) an endless tirade of asshats trying to explain to me why I HAVE to be wrong and am still a moron for not believing in what they do.


The knife cuts both ways, kids.

 

[Ken Morgan]

When the religious people start treating the non religious people with respect, and not lip service hypocrisy, everybody will be much better off. There are of course idiots on both sides of the equation.

Atheists are not well thought of by the general population, http://newsjunkiepost.com/2009/09/19/research-finds-that-atheists-are-most-hated-and-distrusted-minority/
hence why many folks still proclaim a religion, when in fact they have thrown it all away. It’s better for them socially just to go along with the masses.

 

[Tez3]

If we didn't have 'religion' we'd come up with something else to separate us from each other,use as an excuse for treating others badly and that we can blame for going to war.
A lot of damage is done in the name of religion (either because you are the 'wrong religion, you don't have one or that you do) but is down to greed, lust for power, wealth and the need to be right.
We could all be one religion or none at all and still have the problems we have today. Sad but it's human nature to blame.

 

[billc]

Nice reply 5-0 Kenpo, it is interesting to me when some people get offended when someone, especially from a more fundamental christian denomination says that if you do not take Christ as your savior you are going to hell. First, if they are atheists, this should have no meaning, since they do not believe in heaven or hell in the first place. Second, the christian person will usually say, if you do accept christ, you will be saved. They are trying to save the person from what they believe is eternal suffering. They may be wrong, there may be nothing after this life, but they are actually trying to do a good thing here. True, not everyone in religion is a trained diplomat, so it can sound rough when you here their pitch, but if you do not believe, why be offended?

 

[billc]

Atheists have caused a few problems of their own Ken. Also, think on this. As an atheist, there is nothing after this life we have and no one is watching what you do and judging how you behave. I have come up with the thought that as an atheist, you could reasonably expected to live by a code based on, "Don't get Caught." By this I mean, as long as you are not caught by secular authoritities, there is nothing you could not do because there is no God watching, and no reason not to if you felt the urge, other than not getting caught by secular authoritties. You can lie, cheat and steal, murder and other things and it doesn't count against you in the over all scheme of things. I AM NOT SAYING THAT ATHEISTS BELIEVE THIS, IN ANY WAY, SIMPLY STATING THAT YOU COULD FOLLOW THIS CODE. A person who believes in God, always has someone watching, and judging their behavior. THere is never "getting away with it" because he sees all. Your thoughts.

 

[Tez3]

There may be something in Humanism for those wanting an afterlife....

"The tagline on the New Humanist website, advertising an article in
the issue of January/February 2011, startled Steve Phelps with its
implication of post-mortem activity: "Twenty-five years after his
death, Michael Bywater revisits the sacred texts of the pulp
science writer turned prophet L Ron Hubbard".


thanks to World Wide Words.

 

[granfire]

Nice reply 5-0 Kenpo, it is interesting to me when some people get offended when someone, especially from a more fundamental christian denomination says that if you do not take Christ as your savior you are going to hell. First, if they are atheists, this should have no meaning, since they do not believe in heaven or hell in the first place. Second, the christian person will usually say, if you do accept christ, you will be saved. They are trying to save the person from what they believe is eternal suffering. They may be wrong, there may be nothing after this life, but they are actually trying to do a good thing here. True, not everyone in religion is a trained diplomat, so it can sound rough when you here their pitch, but if you do not believe, why be offended?

Because it is non of their business and they can keep the unwanted remarks to themselves.
It is in the same category as offering unsolicited advice about child rearing, finanaces relationships etc or personal hygiene. A case of Nonya: Non of your busines, STFU.

And usually they corner the nice people with the type of upbringing that prohibits them to say where they should go and to have a nice trip.

 

[Cirdan]

Nice reply 5-0 Kenpo, it is interesting to me when some people get offended when someone, especially from a more fundamental christian denomination says that if you do not take Christ as your savior you are going to hell. First, if they are atheists, this should have no meaning, since they do not believe in heaven or hell in the first place. Second, the christian person will usually say, if you do accept christ, you will be saved. They are trying to save the person from what they believe is eternal suffering. They may be wrong, there may be nothing after this life, but they are actually trying to do a good thing here. True, not everyone in religion is a trained diplomat, so it can sound rough when you here their pitch, but if you do not believe, why be offended?

"The people I distrust most are those who want to improve our lives but have only one course of action."

Atheists have caused a few problems of their own Ken. Also, think on this. As an atheist, there is nothing after this life we have and no one is watching what you do and judging how you behave. I have come up with the thought that as an atheist, you could reasonably expected to live by a code based on, "Don't get Caught." By this I mean, as long as you are not caught by secular authoritities, there is nothing you could not do because there is no God watching, and no reason not to if you felt the urge, other than not getting caught by secular authoritties. You can lie, cheat and steal, murder and other things and it doesn't count against you in the over all scheme of things. I AM NOT SAYING THAT ATHEISTS BELIEVE THIS, IN ANY WAY, SIMPLY STATING THAT YOU COULD FOLLOW THIS CODE. A person who believes in God, always has someone watching, and judging their behavior. THere is never "getting away with it" because he sees all. Your thoughts.

Because history shows us that religious people don`t lie, steal, cheat or murder...

 

[Cryozombie]

Because it is non of their business and they can keep the unwanted remarks to themselves.
It is in the same category as offering unsolicited advice about child rearing, finanaces relationships etc or personal hygiene. A case of Nonya: Non of your busines, STFU.

And usually they corner the nice people with the type of upbringing that prohibits them to say where they should go and to have a nice trip.

I agree.

Wait, why are we even having this discussion here? Oh yeah... Cuz someone felt the need to say "Damn Christians, look how stupid they are in this video about tides." and started a thread. Perhaps they should realize "it is non of their business and they can keep the unwanted remarks to themselves."

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

I agree.

Wait, why are we even having this discussion here? Oh yeah... Cuz someone felt the need to say "Damn Christians, look how stupid they are in this video about tides." and started a thread. Perhaps they should realize "it is non of their business and they can keep the unwanted remarks to themselves."

You've got a very good point, but O'Reilley is a public figure, and therefore subjects himself to this kind of scrutiny.

 

[granfire]

You've got a very good point, but O'Reilley is a public figure, and therefore subjects himself to this kind of scrutiny.

Not to mention, he invited the guy on the show....(and probably to poke fun at him)

 

[Cryozombie]

You've got a very good point, but O'Reilley is a public figure, and therefore subjects himself to this kind of scrutiny.

I get that, and as a Christian, I don't even agree with him...

What I do find... odd... about this thread is that it was started to mock at a Christian's beliefs and has then been contributed to by a bunch of folks talking about how that's what Christians do.

Like I said, that knife cuts both ways...

 

[SensibleManiac]

There's so much to answer here and many flaws in logic so it's a little difficult to tackle everything.
I don't mean this do be condenscending or put anyone down, because we are hinking and discussing and thaS' what's important.


I don't think the original post was making fun of beliefs per se but more of O'Reilly's reasoning. Which was because something isn't understood then there must be a God to explain it.

I also don't think christians mock peoples' beliefs or anyone is accusing them of that, I think the problem people find is that , a) many of their beliefs are clearly false, and b) they are intolerant of others beliefs, and c) the worse one of all, they place their false beliefs ahead of the truth (that which is evident), which is always a recipe for disaster.

Wait, why are we even having this discussion here? Oh yeah... Cuz someone felt the need to say "Damn Christians, look how stupid they are in this video about tides." and started a thread. Perhaps they should realize "it is non of their business and they can keep the unwanted remarks to themselves."

If you look back at my posts you'll understand why it is everyone's business to stop misinformation and help promote reason, (and compassion).

The argument that those who believe in God feel that they are being watched so will not do wrongdoing is false.
How many catholic priests have done evil to children? Weren't they being watched? How about Al Quaida aren't they being watched? Aren't they doing wrong?

It's completely false.
However, when someone accepts logic and wants to be a good person, then they can examine the reasoning behind their actions and desires. The point being though that they have to want to be a good person. If you feel that a deity will punish you if you aren't good then are you truly good? Is your heart in it? Or are you just being manipulated?
In order to truly be good don't we have to pursue a path of understansding?

Answer this question for yourself honestly.

Telling someone they are going to hell because they don't believe in something, is wrong and propogates superstitious thinking and fear, it is manipulative and people have the right to express the truth about it.

Sad but it's human nature to blame.

We have to be careful here, what is human nature?
Some say it's human nature to kill, others say it's human nature not to.
Some say it's human nature to be vindictive others say it's human nature to forgive.
Usually human nature is given when people don't understand so they use the term human nature to simplify and not have to further examine the situation.
Why are some people bad? It's human nature.
Why are some people good? It's human nature.
We get nowhere with this thinking.

Of course on the flipside of this, I can't tell you how many times I have been told that

1) I'm a moron

2) Only a brainless idiot would believe this stuff

3) My beliefs are repressing and murdering people

4) I'm associating myself with radicals and child molesters

5) an endless tirade of asshats trying to explain to me why I HAVE to be wrong and am still a moron for not believing in what they do.


The knife cuts both ways, kids.

That's not what we're doing here and that's not what the majority of books about this subject are written on, they are written on the premise that you aren't a moron and can be reasoned with, if you question the beliefs that have been pushed on you.

You are always free to believe what ever you want, and we are free to question that.

Quote:
1. I'm going to hell since I don't believe in their god

This has nothing to do with saying that you are inferior, immoral, or capable of being good.


Quote:
2. I cannot have a moral compass without religion

Lack of a moral compass has nothing to do with being inferior, immoral, or capability of being good. It means that you don't have a proper frame of reference. Anyone walking east in this country can reach the Atlantic Ocean, whether you have a reference or not.
.

Quote:
3. I am stupid for not agreeing with them that the wonders of the universe could only have bee created by God.

Stupid denotes a lack of knowledge, but has nothing to do with being inferior, immoral, or capable of being good.


Quote:
4. I've also had children at school tell my kids they can't play with them because they don't go to church.

And that, again, has nothing to do with you being inferior, immoral, or capability to do go. It is what you believe that they think of you, but nothing that they have told you. You are infering that based on your own biases. Perhaps it is merely that your children, not attending church, does not allow those other children's parents a frame of reference for your children's upbringing, and therefore they do not want their children to potentially be led down a negative path.


Quote:
So in my experience, all of the above does happen quite regularly. I absolutely agree that the central tenet of Christianity is to "love thy neighbor", but it seems that many have missed this lesson.

Or, like another tenet of Christianity, that all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God.

This of course is false reasoning.

Anyone walking east in this country can reach the Atlantic Ocean, whether you have a reference or not.

How will you know you're walking east if you don't have a compass?
You won't therefore you most likely will never reach the atlantic, my moral compass is reason and compassion, the only compass you'll ever need.

The only one that works.

 

[elder999]

How will you know you're walking east if you don't have a compass?
You won't therefore you most likely will never reach the atlantic,

Walk toward the place where the sun rises in the morning......

my moral compass is reason and compassion, the only compass you'll ever need.

The only one that works.

For you, anyway-I hope it works better than your metaphors do....:lol:

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

This of course is false reasoning.

And what exactly is false about the reasoning?

 

[billc]

I'm sorry, but for a group of people who cannot freely roam around their own solar system to make factual statements about who or what made the universe is a little, odd. Maybe after we are moving around a couple more galaxies and roaming the cosmos freely, we might have better questions to ask.

 

[granfire]

I'm sorry, but for a group of people who cannot freely roam around their own solar system to make factual statements about who or what made the universe is a little, odd. Maybe after we are moving around a couple more galaxies and roaming the cosmos freely, we might have better questions to ask.

Lead the way!

 

[billc]

From Prager University, some thoughts on God and creation.

http://prageru.com/6.htm

 

[Carol]

Lacking a moral compass = you don't share their moral compass = you don't go to their church = you are a bad person

I am not Atheist, I am Christian, and I hear the same. My John 3:16 reads the same as theirs, but I didn't pull my Bible out from the back of the correct pew