Opinions on XMA

[BrandonLucas]

...also....even though I pointed it out earlier in the thread it seems necessary to point it out once more as some seem to have missed it...

Those on the XMA team actually train in a base style. If you check the site (I posted their link earlier) you'll see that many of them are ATA students and one was actually a student in Amercian Kenpo.

It's just a glorified demo team to appeal to those with the Power Ranger Mentality. It's a great marketing strategy and brings more people to the martial arts who may have never had the opportunity to benefit from martial arts otherwise.

Stop drinking your Hater-aid and give these folks some props for cryin' out loud.

I will give these guys props on the fact that they can actually do this stuff, and that they are in that kind of shape.

Put them in the ring and let them turn their 720 flips. If they win the match using those techniques, then I'll give them props there as well.

Otherwise, no hater-ade here. I can't turn flips, and I admire those that do. But I also don't consider them to be martial artists in the same sense of the other traditional martial artists I spar with in tournements, whether they're full contact or point sparring.

I would say leave the gymnastics for the gymnasts.

 

[Sylo]

I will give these guys props on the fact that they can actually do this stuff, and that they are in that kind of shape.

Put them in the ring and let them turn their 720 flips. If they win the match using those techniques, then I'll give them props there as well.

Otherwise, no hater-ade here. I can't turn flips, and I admire those that do. But I also don't consider them to be martial artists in the same sense of the other traditional martial artists I spar with in tournements, whether they're full contact or point sparring.

I would say leave the gymnastics for the gymnasts.

On that note..

I don't think Mike Chat should be able to take credit for creating XMA... In my eyes.. the creation of XMA started back in the 80s.. by a man known only as Kurt Thomas.

 

[clfsean]

On that note..

I don't think Mike Chat should be able to take credit for creating XMA... In my eyes.. the creation of XMA started back in the 80s.. by a man known only as Kurt Thomas.

MMMMMMMMM......... channels ......... GYMKATA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[bluekey88]

On that note..

I don't think Mike Chat should be able to take credit for creating XMA... In my eyes.. the creation of XMA started back in the 80s.. by a man known only as Kurt Thomas.

What about Peking opera? Surely that predates Gymkata?

Peace,
Erik

 

[BrandonLucas]

What about Peking opera? Surely that predates Gymkata?

Peace,
Erik

Peking opera predates Gymkata, yes, but it is nowhere near as awesome.

 

[zDom]

What about Peking opera? Surely that predates Gymkata?

Peace,
Erik

A very many techniques I've seen onscreen by those with Peking opera background — including but not limited to Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung — have all the proper form to be valid, effective techniques.

Just because these guys never have used them to strike somebody doesn't mean if they adjusted that extra inch closer they wouldn't be devastating strikes.

 

[clfsean]

A very many techniques I've seen onscreen by those with Peking opera background — including but not limited to Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung — have all the proper form to be valid, effective techniques.

Just because these guys never have used them to strike somebody doesn't mean if they adjusted that extra inch closer they wouldn't be devastating strikes.

Also too... Jackie, Smmo, Yuen Biao, etc... all studied a TMA as well.

BUT... Peking/Hong Kong opera all started initially with real TCMA techniques, just dumbed down & flashed up for performance. Quite true for your statement.

Also remember that during the anti-Qing Dynasty rebellions, many rebels in Southern China used the Opera "Red Boats" to hide so they were using their TMAs in their performances, again just dumbed down & flashed up.

 

[BrandonLucas]

Also too... Jackie, Smmo, Yuen Biao, etc... all studied a TMA as well.

BUT... Peking/Hong Kong opera all started initially with real TCMA techniques, just dumbed down & flashed up for performance. Quite true for your statement.

Also remember that during the anti-Qing Dynasty rebellions, many rebels in Southern China used the Opera "Red Boats" to hide so they were using their TMAs in their performances, again just dumbed down & flashed up.

The problem is that people who studied in the Peking Opera, as you stated, were grouned in TMA's, and the moves revolve around TMA's...the moves in XMA are 100% flash and sizzle, with no true application, even if the XMA practioner is grounded in TMA's.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Also remember that during the anti-Qing Dynasty rebellions, many rebels in Southern China used the Opera "Red Boats" to hide so they were using their TMAs in their performances, again just dumbed down & flashed up.

This was a major part of the Chen Kwan Tai move, Executioner from Shaolin.

Daniel

 

[Sylo]

Peking opera predates Gymkata, yes, but it is nowhere near as awesome.

The fact that I have no idea what that even is.. but I am a die hard Gymkata fan proves this point..

just take a look at the title lines...

The skill of gymnastics, the kill of karate


I think that speaks for itself.

 

[clfsean]

The problem is that people who studied in the Peking Opera, as you stated, were grouned in TMA's, and the moves revolve around TMA's...the moves in XMA are 100% flash and sizzle, with no true application, even if the XMA practioner is grounded in TMA's.

Don't disagree at all... not one bit.

 

[clfsean]

This was a major part of the Chen Kwan Tai move, Executioner from Shaolin.

Daniel

That's a major part of lots of Hong Kong cinema.

If I'm thinking of the right movie, he was playing the legendary (if spiced up for cinema) Hung Hei Goon... founder of Hung Kuen aka Hung Ga.

But the boats were also a major part of Southern Chinese history too... both for the rebellions & existance.

 

[zDom]

Also too... Jackie, Smmo, Yuen Biao, etc... all studied a TMA as well.

I knew that about Jackie, didn't about the others although I figured it might be true.

But they all STARTED in Peking Opera as little kids, if I am correct, and LATER trained in TMAs — right?

 

[Flying Crane]

A very many techniques I've seen onscreen by those with Peking opera background — including but not limited to Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung — have all the proper form to be valid, effective techniques.

Just because these guys never have used them to strike somebody doesn't mean if they adjusted that extra inch closer they wouldn't be devastating strikes.

I do know that Jackie has used his skills, I saw an interview with him from quite a while ago and he talked about the fights he used to get into in the streets. I believe this was when he was rather young and he may not have trained outside the Peking Opera school yet.

In this same interview, he talked about filming with Benny the Jet Urquidez, in one of his films (I can't remember the title, but it had some serious kick-*** fight scenes). Anyway, Jackie's comment about Benny was something like: "Benny is really good, I'm not sure who would win if I had to actually fight him for real".

 

[Kwan Jang]

I'd give 50 to 1 odds in favor of Benny.

 

[Flying Crane]

I'd give 50 to 1 odds in favor of Benny.

it's pure speculation. we'll never know either way. They are both getting old now and certainly it will never happen.

 

[clfsean]

I knew that about Jackie, didn't about the others although I figured it might be true.

But they all STARTED in Peking Opera as little kids, if I am correct, and LATER trained in TMAs — right?

Yep... they all started TMAs while in the Opera, but that was after reaching the level to perform... which meant phenominal skill and at least mid to late teenaged.

 

[BrandonLucas]

it's pure speculation. we'll never know either way. They are both getting old now and certainly it will never happen.

I don't know...I would think something could be arranged.....

 

[Kwan Jang]

I didn't think anyone would even question this one and just bringing it up was so obvious that it would be humerous. Let's see, a performer like Chan with virtually no fight experience against one of the best pound for pound fighters in kickboxing history. Even Benny's "no contests" (re: losses) were considered such because they were way out of his weight class. This is exactly like someone saying a fight between a welter weight XMA tricker and GSP would be in doubt. Probably worst because many of the XMA guys actually do have a fighting background and "trick" as a fun supplement to their training.

 

[celtic_crippler]

Well, I firmly believe that "flash without solid basics is trash."

I would give them props IF they took the time and showed the dedication to train a basic punch, a basic kick, a basic chamber and THEN built on that with the flashy XMA stuff.

But from I've seen they never bother — they skip over the "do it right" phase in their basics and go right after the backflips and 720 degree kicks.

I'll never fully respect a "martial artist" who doesn't care enough to do their basics correctly. My response is always "what a shame; they could have been SO good!"

That's just how I'm wired. :shrug:

I will give these guys props on the fact that they can actually do this stuff, and that they are in that kind of shape.

Put them in the ring and let them turn their 720 flips. If they win the match using those techniques, then I'll give them props there as well.

Otherwise, no hater-ade here. I can't turn flips, and I admire those that do. But I also don't consider them to be martial artists in the same sense of the other traditional martial artists I spar with in tournements, whether they're full contact or point sparring.

I would say leave the gymnastics for the gymnasts.

The problem is that people who studied in the Peking Opera, as you stated, were grouned in TMA's, and the moves revolve around TMA's...the moves in XMA are 100% flash and sizzle, with no true application, even if the XMA practioner is grounded in TMA's.

For the third time, the folks on the XMA teams have traditional training in various recognized martial arts. I made it easy for you to learn more about them (as I did) and posted the link earlier in the thread....do I have to click on it for you as well?

XMA is no doubt intended to entertain through flash, and I've yet to hear anyone claim that the "tricks" they do are practical self defense maneuvers. In that same vein, many of the tactics used in the sport application of many martial arts would get you killed in a street fight.....does that disqualify them as martial arts as well?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a meat & potatos martial artist, but I think it's good to keep an open mind and give credit where credit is due. Martial arts are multi-faceted and because one form seems alien to what I practice doesn't mean that disqualifies it as a martial art. But then, I don't claim to have any authority over the classification of a style either. LOL