I like to watch it. As long as tournaments have appropriate divisions for XMA, tricking, or whatever, I think it's cool. I just don't want to see it in traditional and creative divisions--there needs to be a place for competitors who can't (or choose not to) defy gravity.
Your Thoughts on "Flash"?
- Thread starter Msby
- Start date
I sometimes wonder if guys that train for the Tour de France refuse to admit that BMX stuff counts as riding a bicycle...
You make a good point. However, I wouldn't want to make them compete against each other--they share some traits, but are still very different.
I am glad to see tournaments with "Creative" forms and "Traditional". It definitely helps that there is a distinction. As for "bad for the arts" . . . well, I don't think it furthers them, but I don't think it necessarily detracts from them. The people that are drawn to the flashy moves aren't really wanting to learn self-defense, they are wanting to learn cool moves that look neat. People that want to learn self-defense aren't going to walk into a school that has XMA and think "this stuff will be easy to learn and keep me safe!" On the flip side, I know that there is a lack of education to the public . . . so, it's only bad for the art if it's being "sold" as real self-defense.
As for an athletic event . . . very impressive. I only wish I could do what those parkour guys do . . . As a former aggressive skater (inline), I am amazed what those guys can do without the benefit of wheels!!!
As for an athletic event . . . very impressive. I only wish I could do what those parkour guys do . . . As a former aggressive skater (inline), I am amazed what those guys can do without the benefit of wheels!!!
blindsage
Master of Arts
I'm not a fan of big flashy techniques and I personally hate tricking, but...
Having said that, I've seen plenty of spin kicks thrown in full contact matches that did their job (I've seen plenty fail as well, and I've never seen a 720). I've seen full-contact fighters use forward somersault kicks for knock outs (there used to be a Kyokushin guy in NY that was famous for it). There is a place for some spinning techniques, but hopefully those who practice them know the difference between flash and substance.
Having said that, I've seen plenty of spin kicks thrown in full contact matches that did their job (I've seen plenty fail as well, and I've never seen a 720). I've seen full-contact fighters use forward somersault kicks for knock outs (there used to be a Kyokushin guy in NY that was famous for it). There is a place for some spinning techniques, but hopefully those who practice them know the difference between flash and substance.
still learning
Senior Master
Hello, ....Nice to watch.... It seems "Flash" is for entertainment purposes...sure you need some martial art skills and be flexible as a gymist (skills)...
Keep in mind these people is for show only....Yes there will be times some of those techniques could work on the streets....BUT ..these people do it for the entertainment purpose..mainly! (not many people can do those tricks too...NICE to watch...fun to see!
Gotta be in great shape too....one of the key elements of being a good strong fighter....
Flash..? fun and entertaining to watch....Martial arts is starting to have its....share of "stage" showmanships...like the old wild west shows...?
We all saw those in the "Chinese Moves" ....stage shows...to get the peoples attention...
Aloha, ..."tricks are for kids" ...some of us are too old for "tricks" ...trick or treat...we take the candies first...
Keep in mind these people is for show only....Yes there will be times some of those techniques could work on the streets....BUT ..these people do it for the entertainment purpose..mainly! (not many people can do those tricks too...NICE to watch...fun to see!
Gotta be in great shape too....one of the key elements of being a good strong fighter....
Flash..? fun and entertaining to watch....Martial arts is starting to have its....share of "stage" showmanships...like the old wild west shows...?
We all saw those in the "Chinese Moves" ....stage shows...to get the peoples attention...
Aloha, ..."tricks are for kids" ...some of us are too old for "tricks" ...trick or treat...we take the candies first...
Where's the link? I've gotta see this!
OP
OP
Msby
Orange Belt
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Slap some ice skates on those kids, and get some old Russian guy to coach them and you have an Olympic contender. That's where XMA belongs. It's a show. It's for bad MA movies.
I see "tricking" or XMA as exactly the kind of MA I want my opponent to expect, only to be surprised by something real and painful. On the flip side, it would be kind of nice to see every opponent attempt "tricking" when they fight you. Yeah. Try missing a landing on hard gravel, buddy.
To me, XMA is horrible for the practitioner because it takes away from the practitioner's training time for solid, functional training methods in exchange for "flash".
Again, in my opinion, it takes away from the instructor as well. I think it's a bit hypocritical to say "hey, here is a functional form of SD, and a beautiful MA" on one side... and the other side says "hey, I'm going to take away from training and focus on the flashy stuff to please a crowd... because that's what fighting is... pleasing a crowd."
Please.
Sorry. I've been the victim of a few schools that ultimately had a focus in XMA. What they need to tell the practitioners before they walk in the door is that they should just take out the MA part, pay the instructor to outsource a gymnastics coach, and start marketing to other suckers to get them in the door.
MA= nutritious meal.
XMA= Fluffernutter
I see "tricking" or XMA as exactly the kind of MA I want my opponent to expect, only to be surprised by something real and painful. On the flip side, it would be kind of nice to see every opponent attempt "tricking" when they fight you. Yeah. Try missing a landing on hard gravel, buddy.
To me, XMA is horrible for the practitioner because it takes away from the practitioner's training time for solid, functional training methods in exchange for "flash".
Again, in my opinion, it takes away from the instructor as well. I think it's a bit hypocritical to say "hey, here is a functional form of SD, and a beautiful MA" on one side... and the other side says "hey, I'm going to take away from training and focus on the flashy stuff to please a crowd... because that's what fighting is... pleasing a crowd."
Please.
Sorry. I've been the victim of a few schools that ultimately had a focus in XMA. What they need to tell the practitioners before they walk in the door is that they should just take out the MA part, pay the instructor to outsource a gymnastics coach, and start marketing to other suckers to get them in the door.
MA= nutritious meal.
XMA= Fluffernutter
Doing XMA to a high level, like doing anything to a high level, takes good coaching and dedicated athletes.
The guys "tricking" in these video are very dedicated to what they do and incredible athletes. The blood, sweat and effort they put into what they do puts many "traditional" schools to shame.
It might not be for you, or for me, but what they do takes a lot of dedication and hard work to do. Their coaches know what they are doing and do it well.
Milt G.
Purple Belt
Hello,
I, too, am glad there are seperate divisions, such as the contemporary division, at tournaments for the "flash". I have seen these "flash" divisions run together with the traditional and it always causes problems. Difficult to judge them both seperately and objectively, together.
While I believe it is an excellent show of a practitioners balance, timing, flexability and gymnastics ability, the "flash" is truly different then traditional martial arts as a whole. Kind of a newer "sub variant". I like the bicycling and BMX comparison.
I do think they have a place, and enjoy watching them. I just do not feel that "Jackie Chan" should compete in the same forms division with, say, "Gogen Yamaguchi" in his prime. Apples and oranges in this case, but both very skilled at what they do. They just do different things, IMO.
Maybe I feel this way because I cannot do the "flash", myself...?
I could, however, be on my backside in a "flash" trying it.
Good topic. Thank you.
Milt G.
I, too, am glad there are seperate divisions, such as the contemporary division, at tournaments for the "flash". I have seen these "flash" divisions run together with the traditional and it always causes problems. Difficult to judge them both seperately and objectively, together.
While I believe it is an excellent show of a practitioners balance, timing, flexability and gymnastics ability, the "flash" is truly different then traditional martial arts as a whole. Kind of a newer "sub variant". I like the bicycling and BMX comparison.
I do think they have a place, and enjoy watching them. I just do not feel that "Jackie Chan" should compete in the same forms division with, say, "Gogen Yamaguchi" in his prime. Apples and oranges in this case, but both very skilled at what they do. They just do different things, IMO.
Maybe I feel this way because I cannot do the "flash", myself...?
I could, however, be on my backside in a "flash" trying it.
Good topic. Thank you.
Milt G.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
How is that different from Olympic TKD?
To me, I think that "tricking or urban ninja" stuff is fun to watch. But as far as SD, there's really no value in it. I think the problem I have with the XMA is that they say they are a real martial art.
As far as flashy stuff in tourneys, I don't agree and could care less if someone can hold their leg up in the air and throw 10,000 kicks at nothing.
As far as flashy stuff in tourneys, I don't agree and could care less if someone can hold their leg up in the air and throw 10,000 kicks at nothing.
XMA is an adjunct to a martial art. No, I disagree that it make the martial arts look bad as others maintain.
The level of training and practice required to effectively do XMA is incredibly high. Like breaking, it is not for everyone to focus in or practice. But if you can do do it and are in a demonstration, strut your stuff.
I agree that it is not the best stuff for SD. Thing is, the guys and gals who do that stuff generally know that and have more traditional SD techniques in their arsenal.
Daniel
The level of training and practice required to effectively do XMA is incredibly high. Like breaking, it is not for everyone to focus in or practice. But if you can do do it and are in a demonstration, strut your stuff.
I agree that it is not the best stuff for SD. Thing is, the guys and gals who do that stuff generally know that and have more traditional SD techniques in their arsenal.
Daniel
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