New video on Bong Sau by Alan Orr

[guy b]

So let me see if I have this straight.....WSLVT is the "true" version of Ip Man's Wing Chun and almost everyone else in the Ip Man lineage learned incompletely or incorrectly. Within WSLVT are documents that explain how everything should be done in great detail. But the WSLVT lineage is unwilling to share this with those that didn't learn properly in order to benefit all Ip Man Wing Chun people? Or am I misrepresenting what you have been writing here for awhile?

Writings and tradition exist in VT which don't get shared with random people on the internet, correct. I think this is the case for every system. Don't worry, quite a lot is being shared already.

Information is available to anyone who trains VT honestly and with commitment so there is nothing to stop anyone accessing this if they want it.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

I see this argument is still going on after all this time.
Guy B has a view that is unwavering and this has been proven many times. He could be right or wrong. But it seems the only way to know would be to go train PB VT. So until that time we may as well all move on.

 

[wckf92]

I suggest you start training the system if you are interested

If I understand the PB WSL VT landscape correctly...this would mean or imply Europe(?).
If I'm not mistaken, the PB WSL folks do not have a decent rep in the USA?

 

[guy b]

There are some WSL people in the US. Gary Lam would be the most obvious choice. He has added things but you could do worse. Some of his students take a more back to basics approach, good choice would be Ernie Barrios

 

[wckf92]

There are some WSL people in the US. Gary Lam would be the most obvious choice. He has added things but you could do worse. Some of his students take a more back to basics approach, good choice would be Ernie Barrios

Thanks.
I think those guys are west coast.
What about the dude in NYC? Gledhill(?)
Is he/does he represent the PB methods well enough or...?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[guy b]

Yes Kev Gledhill understands the system and would be a good teacher

 

[Callen]

There are some WSL people in the US. Gary Lam would be the most obvious choice. He has added things but you could do worse. Some of his students take a more back to basics approach

There are many of us in the US. Not a lot under Phillip Bayer, but there are 1st and 2nd generation WSLVT practitioners here.

Gary Lam has added things just like Wan Kam Leung, Wang Zhi Peng and Phillip Bayer and have added things... No one but the man himself can teach WSLVT exactly the way he did, so mentioning that people have added to the system isn't really an accurate gauge.

I'm interested in your comment about the "back to basics" approach of Gary Lam's students. What exactly has given you this impression?

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

There are many of us in the US. Not a lot under Phillip Bayer, but there are 1st and 2nd generation WSLVT practitioners here.

Gary Lam has added things just like Wan Kam Leung, Wang Zhi Peng and Phillip Bayer and have added things... No one but the man himself can teach WSLVT exactly the way he did, so mentioning that people have added to the system isn't really an accurate gauge.

I'm interested in your comment about the "back to basics" approach of Gary Lam's students. What exactly has given you this impression?

Nope, PB VT is exactly the same as Yip Man's. VT is VT..... according to Guy......

 

[Danny T]

QUOTE by guy b
"There is only VT. Personal interpretation is only misunderstanding of VT


QUOTE by guy b
"There isn't anything to change; it already works. There isn't anything that needs to be explained; it is already laid out in great detail and written down for the avoidance of doubt." "VT is still just VT"

When stating who to train WC with or who is the best of the next generation.

QUOTE by guy b
"There are some WSL people in the US. Gary Lam would be the most obvious choice. He has added things but you could do worse.”


QUOTE by guy b
"Sean Wood his student is also very good and taking an interesting direction with MMA focused training


QUOTE by guy b
"I like Wang Zhi Peng, although he has added some other elements

If Wing Chun is Wing Chun and personal interpretation is only misunderstanding of it and there isn’t anything to change then why would you recommend anyone who has used their interpretation, added, or changed anything within to be someone to train with or consider them to be the best of the next generation?

 

[Callen]

Nope, PB VT is exactly the same as Yip Man's. VT is VT..... according to Guy......

Phillip Bayer is doing his best to preserve his Sifu's system, just like many other 1st generation WSL students. In my quote above, I'm not necessarily saying VT is or isn't VT. I feel like that's a separate point.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

Phillip Bayer is doing his best to preserve his Sifu's system, just like many other 1st generation WSL students. In my quote above, I'm not necessarily saying VT is or isn't VT. I feel like that's a separate point.

Sure. But I think you would agree that WSL's interpretation of YM's teaching is his own. And then PB's interpretation of WSL style would be is his own. To think that PB's wing Chun would be equivalent to Yip Mans is very hard to believe. Also I would think the likes of PB, Gary Lam etc can do what they like to their wing Chun.

 

[Callen]

Sure. But I think you would agree that WSL's interpretation of YM's teaching is his own. And then PB's interpretation of WSL style would be is his own.

I do agree with these statements.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

Then

I do agree with these statements.

Then that would make you one of the more reasonable and balanced WSL people on this site.

You are obviously new here. This thread is supposed to be about Alan Orr's lap sau ideas. But it got hijacked again and turned into a WSL debate. This always happens.

 

[Callen]

Then that would make you one of the more reasonable and balanced WSL people on this site.

You are obviously new here. This thread is supposed to be about Alan Orr's lap sau ideas. But it got hijacked again and turned into a WSL debate. This always happens.

I do my best to be a reasonable and balanced person in general, the fact that I'm a WSL practitioner shouldn't have much bearing.

I joined Martial Talk in 2014. I try and only chime in on threads when I have something to contribute. I hope that I didn't add to the derailing of Geezer's post

 

[KPM]

I do my best to be a reasonable and balanced person in general, the fact that I'm a WSL practitioner shouldn't have much bearing.

Having a WSL person around that doesn't revel in insulting other lineages and post as if they have experienced a religious conversion is certainly a welcome thing!

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

I do my best to be a reasonable and balanced person in general, the fact that I'm a WSL practitioner shouldn't have much bearing.

I joined Martial Talk in 2014. I try and only chime in on threads when I have something to contribute. I hope that I didn't add to the derailing of Geezer's post

Don't get me wrong, I like WSL style. My cousin is one and I used to cross train with some. I find their approach refreshing.

 

[Juany118]

Sure. But I think you would agree that WSL's interpretation of YM's teaching is his own. And then PB's interpretation of WSL style would be is his own. To think that PB's wing Chun would be equivalent to Yip Mans is very hard to believe. Also I would think the likes of PB, Gary Lam etc can do what they like to their wing Chun.

And lets not even get into the fact that when it came to teaching YM's YC says that when his father personally taught students he taught the student to their own particular strengths and weaknesses. It's a murky mess in terms of what is "right", hence why I have decided to take the attitude "okay did you ever get into a fight with WC/VT?" If the answer is "yes" the next question is "did it work?" If the answer is "yes", move on your teacher knew of what they spoke. If the answer is "no" it gets more complicated because now you have to ask a butt ton of questions to figure out if it was the fault of the teacher, the student or if the opponent was simply more skilled.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

And lets not even get into the fact that when it came to teaching YM's YC says that when his father personally taught students he taught the student to their own particular strengths and weaknesses. It's a murky mess in terms of what is "right", hence why I have decided to take the attitude "okay did you ever get into a fight with WC/VT?" If the answer is "yes" the next question is "did it work?" If the answer is "yes", move on your teacher knew of what they spoke. If the answer is "no" it gets more complicated because now you have to ask a butt ton of questions to figure out if it was the fault of the teacher, the student or if the opponent was simply more skilled.

Agreed! I mean, how many times have we heard this about YM.

 

[guy b]

There are many of us in the US. Not a lot under Phillip Bayer, but there are 1st and 2nd generation WSLVT practitioners here.

Gary Lam has added things just like Wan Kam Leung, Wang Zhi Peng and Phillip Bayer and have added things... No one but the man himself can teach WSLVT exactly the way he did, so mentioning that people have added to the system isn't really an accurate gauge.

Gary Lam has added an entire structured teaching curriculum and has added to the system quite a lot, especially in terms of how it is taught. The reason I say that you could do worse than Gary Lam is that he has produced some good people and as far as I know he has not changes the core VT under what he has added.

Philipp Bayer hasn't added anything

I'm interested in your comment about the "back to basics" approach of Gary Lam's students. What exactly has given you this impression?

Things that some of them have said

 

[guy b]

If Wing Chun is Wing Chun and personal interpretation is only misunderstanding of it and there isn’t anything to change then why would you recommend anyone who has used their interpretation, added, or changed anything within to be someone to train with or consider them to be the best of the next generation?

Some teachers have added things on top of the VT method while leaving the core essentially intact. It can be difficult to separate what is added and what is core in such cases but it is possible.

Gary Lam and WZP are examples of this. I quite like WZP's SC influenced throws. It isn't VT but quite easy to see where the VT begins and ends with him. With Gary Lam it is more difficult to separate the core VT but still possible.