Height of the bong-sau

[Punchy]

. . . .That doesn't seem to be case for everyone... In fact, it sounds like you are using bong-sau, to actively redirect force... Is that correct?[ QUOTE]

Of course, why not? You attempt to do that when you roll in chi sao. Moving your arm from tan to bong, you test your partner's position with both hand positions, and if it is weak (opening up the center) or incorrect, the bong just like the tan, changes to another hand position to strike (punch, dim jern, biu jee, whatever) or destroy their position, structure, base, whatever.

You push forward with your tan sao, why can't you push forward with your bong? You can, just not so much as to over-power your opponent with it. Just to guide or re-direct their energy.

A lot of people use the translation for bong sao as wing arm. That just tells you what it looks like, not its function. I use the terms guiding, trapping, or pinning arm which tell you more of what it is doing as opposed to what it looks like.[/QUOTE]

A translation I have heard for bong sao that I like and use is flanking arm
In fact I think all the arm/ hand positions in WC are descriptive of what is taking place not what it looks like.
Another example, I use tan sau not as palm up hand but as dispersing hand.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

Sugoi!!!!! Thats really Cool

 

[MacPedro]

Great Thread Guys,
what about my other point? Is Bong Sau a purely defensive move? I think I've managed to use it effectively as an attack on my punch bag but I'm sure there's probably a good reason not to do this. Anyone shed any light? The instance where it may come into use would be to sweep away a weak defense and drive towards the torso with the same arm in one movement or something.

Pedro

 

[Punchy]

we have a saying in our lineage that the bong sao never stays.
Imagine your arm is a branch being pushed out of the way as you walk through the woods. When you release it it lashes out.
Your bong sao is the same. It is being bent into a position, but when released it should spring outward.

Also, we have a version of bong sao called biu bong, that thrusts out, striking with the forearm/elbow.

 

[mook jong man]

Great Thread Guys,
what about my other point? Is Bong Sau a purely defensive move? I think I've managed to use it effectively as an attack on my punch bag but I'm sure there's probably a good reason not to do this. Anyone shed any light? The instance where it may come into use would be to sweep away a weak defense and drive towards the torso with the same arm in one movement or something.

Pedro

A Bong Sau can be used to attack as well , the Bong Sau has great capacity to unbalance the opponent .
If we take an example like Chi Sau , if I coordinate my step forward with the turning of my arm from Tan Sau to Bong Sau this can off balance the person .

As he is off balanced his structure is compromised and his defence opens up , the Bong Sau then converts into a palm strike and hits through the gap .
Of course with everything there is a counter and if he drops his Fook Sau then your attacking Bong Sau will be nullified.

 

[zepedawingchun]

. . . . A translation I have heard for bong sao that I like and use is flanking arm
In fact I think all the arm/ hand positions in WC are descriptive of what is taking place not what it looks like.
Another example, I use tan sau not as palm up hand but as dispersing hand.

Yes, flanking arm is what the term really means. However, just like wing arm, is it not descriptive of what the arm does. Flanking means to be along side. Still doesn't describe what it is doing. I try to give my students translations that describe what the position is doing rather than what it looks like. Then maybe someday the bulb will light up in their head and they learn to use the position properly.

Yak Sao, great analogy using the tree branch. We use bong sao the same way. A lot of people think of bong sao as only a defensive position, when in fact, all hand positions in Wing Chun are meant to be used as offensive or defensive.

 

[Haris Lamboo Faisal]

if anyone ever asks me a question about bong sau ... to answer them i would probably refer them to this thread , really a great thread. Great insight.

 

[Danny T]

Defensive, Offensive?? My movement can be a response to your movement based upon position as the bridge is made "or" your movement maybe the action of my movement/position after the bridge has been created. I may respond to you or I make you respond to me.

 

[izeqb]

Yak Sao, great analogy using the tree branch. We use bong sao the same way. A lot of people think of bong sao as only a defensive position, when in fact, all hand positions in Wing Chun are meant to be used as offensive or defensive.

The moment the bong change, it's not a bong anymore... In the above scenario it would turn into a fak-sau or a biu-jee-sau.

However... In our linage, we also have the biu-bong... Which is very offensive and attack and not just directing force...

 

[wingc]

Hello, at the following category of wing chun techniques you will find the bong sau basics video, where the sifu explains the bong sau perfect (for me)!!Just take a look.

http://www.wing-chun.ws/wing-chun-techniques-2/

 

[izeqb]

However... In our linage, we also have the biu-bong... Which is very offensive and attack and not just directing force...

Sorry... I'm not really sure it's called the Biu-bong... I'm probably mixing some stuff up right now :/ Anyway... what I meant to say, was that in our linage, sometimes we also use the bong aggressively

 

[wtxs]

Sorry... I'm not really sure it's called the Biu-bong... I'm probably mixing some stuff up right now :/ Anyway... what I meant to say, was that in our linage, sometimes we also use the bong aggressively

The Tan Sau is a punch, a cutting palm, a finger strike aka Biu Gee .....

The so called "Biu Bong" is the mirror of Tan Sou, and can be used as such.

Tan, Bong, Fook and others are but Tools of WC, and can be utilized in many ways.

What is that stupid saying ..... oh ya ... seek and you will find. We need to look beyond what is in front of us.