One of my favorite anecdotes to share with my students is of me saying “Mr. _____ said it should be done _____.” And my instructor replying, “Yes. I’ve been telling you that for 7 years. You just couldn’t hear me.”
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- Thread starter Acronym
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They broke from the ITF for exactly for that reason.
Well.. this thread has been a wild ride! Can't believe it's still goin!
That's all, go nuts
"Don't twist your body" /General Choi. "He meant shoulders" /Earl Weiss.
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_Simon_
Senior Master
Meh.. to me when someone says twist it looks like this. Where one part (the bottom) is fixed or going in the opposite direction to the movement of the other, thus twisting around each other. Thus the shoulders twisting (which is essentially the upper body/waist). Don't twist the body would mean don't twist the upper body (twist movement from the shoulders down into obliques etc) and lower body.
And when someone says rotation it looks like this. Rotating around a specific fixed point, but that point can also be at the central axis. So either hip rotating like an open/close door, or with the pivot point in the middle. They're different.
dvcochran
Grandmaster
Yes, clearly Acronym is more than willing to sound totally foolish to get his message count up.Well.. this thread has been a wild ride! Can't believe it's still goin!
That's all, go nuts
Much respect to Mr. Weiss for trying but I feel he is spinning his wheels.
Meh.. to me when someone says twist it looks like this. Where one part (the bottom) is fixed or going in the opposite direction to the movement of the other, thus twisting around each other. Thus the shoulders twisting (which is essentially the upper body/waist). Don't twist the body would mean don't twist the upper body (twist movement from the shoulders down into obliques etc) and lower body.
And when someone says rotation it looks like this. Rotating around a specific fixed point, but that point can also be at the central axis. So either hip rotating like an open/close door, or with the pivot point in the middle. They're different.
So if a cop asks you to don't move your body, you might still move your hips?
Do you have to kiss his *** every post?
_Simon_
Senior Master
a) you're changing the words used ('move' instead of twist)
b) you're changing the context to suit your argument (a cop asking you to move your body)
Same principle. If he meant shoulders, he would say shoulders. You are the ones changing things.
No, I am highlight how absurd this is by showing how in ANY other context, you would not interpret it as excluding the hips.
_Simon_
Senior Master
Well.. no it's not at all man. Completely different! In the context of martial arts movements, like the example images above, that is how I would see it if I heard don't TWIST your body. Twisting occurs at the waist which starts at the shoulders (sort of). Or moreso requires the shoulders to turn anyway. I'm not actually changing anything at all, it's simple language/communication thing.
Whaaat.. I would just not use the cop example as it's totally removed from the discussion and confusing points. Twisting is specific, and anatomically it's easy to see what twisting means.
If I say "reach your arm overhead to grab that", I'm pretty sure they're not gonna say "ahhhh but you didn't tell me to raise my hand!" See what I mean?
_Simon_
Senior Master
Well the context chosen matters greatly, and that can completely alter the entire paradigm of what language/specific words mean.
So you would still twist your hip (as you always did before) if a martial arts instructor demonstrating to you his own system, tells you to not twist your body?
Funny how the gentleman in the actual clip didn't...
_Simon_
Senior Master
As I said, to me twist the body and twist the hip are different. I wouldn't actually even say twist the hip as that doesn't make much sense..
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
That reason would be?
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Sir, I may be spinning my wheels as far as Acronym goes, but by presenting through my notes, and experience that he has accepted a mistaken conclusion by others without the same experience I have accomplished my goal of skewering the spread of further misinformation.
Earl Weiss
Senior Master
Sir, again, you take something out of context. In the video clip the person he speaks to is rotating / twisting (In my opinion over rotating / twisting) his shoulders. General Choi comments "Don't twist your body" The words with the visual make it clear what he refers to.
Your comment concerning choice of words is being as nitpicky as claiming he called something a "U" shape block but it looks more like a "C" so it should be called "C" shape block. Clear what he meant when coupled with the visual.
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