New anti Sine Wave pattern deliveries on Youtube
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It is amazing to me watching someone who trained ITF TKD in one school for 3 years trying to tell an ITF (I believe) grandmaster, that has trained at multiple schools and with the people involved in the discussion, for multiple decades, how those people do things, and what is considered the proper way of doing so, based on a youtube video.
The internet is really a crazy thing.
The internet is really a crazy thing.
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- #23
Based on a youtube video of the world champion in ITF forms.
It's even more amazing with someone who hasn't done it at all.
I referenced the world champion in ITF forms. Weiss did NOT object to the rear foot being put down when punching.
When I'm wrong I will admit to it. I am not wrong here. He is wrong about boxers though.
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- #24
That's 4 years and a red belt. Long enough to know whether the rear foot is down or up when punching in forms.
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- #25
The point of lifting the rear foot in boxing is to facilitate a weight transfer, which is why it doesn't drop when you actually deliver the punch on impact. If you put the rear foot down when you punch, you reverse the attempted transfer back to a planted rear foot position and no weight transfer has been accomplished. All you did was raise and lower your gravity=no weight transfer.
If the someone who hasn't done it at all is me, then you're missing something. I'm not saying who is right or wrong. I don't even know what sine wave is, or how it relates to the rear foot, besides a few threads I've read on here. Just pointing out how crazy the internet is.Based on a youtube video of the world champion in ITF forms.
It's even more amazing with someone who hasn't done it at all.
I referenced the world champion in ITF forms. Weiss did NOT object to the rear foot being put down when punching.
When I'm wrong I will admit to it. I am not wrong here. He is wrong about boxers though.
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- #27
There is nothing crazy about this discussion. This is basic stuff you learn day 1 in ITF. the argument is whether it is an any way analogous to boxing, and of course it isn't, and I explained why.
You changed the debate to that. Earl didn't mention boxers until post 17, after you did. And I don't find the discussion crazy, I find the internet crazy that it can have this discussion.
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- #29
Then I suggest you read post 3 again
My bad, missed that he said that there. Doesn't really change my initial statement though.
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- #31
Yes it does. It's clear one of the two here haven't boxed or else he wouldn't write that.
My statement is how the internet is crazy. None of the contents of the discussion change that, as any discussion between the two of you proves how crazy the internet can be.
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- #33
Because you and dirty dog resort to argument from authority. Just because Weiss is a gm and I'm a red belt doesn't automatically make him knowledgeable about boxing.
If you take a concept of boxing and then throw it in the pin the moment you actually strike, you are not using the principles of boxing, you are abusing them.
I'm not making any argument from authority. And I don't think he knows about boxing-he might, I've got no clue. My point was that, on the ITF side, you're invalidating his experiences through your own online research. And my larger point is that you guys can even have this conversation, which is crazy to me, and the internet is possible. I think you read a lot more into my posts than I'm saying sometimes. Unless my last theory is correct and you just look to see what arguments you can make.
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- #35
That is a delibrate misrepresentation. I trained for 4 years, in the dojang, under GM Yeo Chin Huat.
I don't think I'm misrepresenting anything. You're taking limited experience, combining that with youtube to make an overarching claim, and invalidating his experience as you do so. But I'm like 95% sure with some of your recent threads that you're just trolling and trying to argue. So good luck.
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- #37
What does experience have to do with what the textbook says? If it says to put down my rear foot when puncing, then that’s just as true when I'm white belt doing forms as when a GM is doing the same forms.
Obfuscation tactics doesn't bite on me.
isshinryuronin
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Weight transfer is not the main issue - It's power transfer to the opponent that's important.
Weight transfer is just one way to generate power. There are several others that keep the weight centered and rooted vertically, yet still transfer power horizontally, but that is a whole discussion in itself.
And yet, here we are.
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- #39
Weight transfer is the difference between an arm punch and a punch with knockout power.
I don't have much experience with the ITF, however I had a friendly debate with an ITF master at a tournament once. We are both 7th Dans in our respective arts. His explanation of the sine wave was they are bringing their bodies up by coming onto the balls of their feet, then sinking into a lower stance. They use the energy of the downward movement created by gravity and redirect that energy into their techniques.
My response to this was, if you are waiting for gravity to pull you downward in order to redirect that energy, it is going to be very slow. We have always believed that much of our power is generated in the legs and core by explosively driving our bodies directly through the technique. The shortest distance between point A and point B is a straight line. By moving your body upward then downward before executing the technique, you are taking the scenic route. Just my 2 cents.
I do see value in utilizing the sine wave to do certain board/brick breaks, however, to use as a practical means of generating power in combat, I don't see the value.
I know many traditional arts practice certain techniques that on the surface don't appear to be very practical, but when you dig deeper they are executed in a specific way to create good habits etc. Perhaps someone far more knowledgeable in the ITF than I, like GM Weiss, can expand on my quick explanation of the sine wave?
My response to this was, if you are waiting for gravity to pull you downward in order to redirect that energy, it is going to be very slow. We have always believed that much of our power is generated in the legs and core by explosively driving our bodies directly through the technique. The shortest distance between point A and point B is a straight line. By moving your body upward then downward before executing the technique, you are taking the scenic route. Just my 2 cents.
I do see value in utilizing the sine wave to do certain board/brick breaks, however, to use as a practical means of generating power in combat, I don't see the value.
I know many traditional arts practice certain techniques that on the surface don't appear to be very practical, but when you dig deeper they are executed in a specific way to create good habits etc. Perhaps someone far more knowledgeable in the ITF than I, like GM Weiss, can expand on my quick explanation of the sine wave?
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