My TSA approved improvised weapon choice.......

[Alan0354]

I think the point I and others are making is that using most of a slicing motion isn't probsably effective for developing a chopping-type strike. And I'm not sure a chopping motion would be the best way to develop striking for a blunt instrument, either. Rather than copying the gross movements of something vaguely related, why not start from scratch and just work out a method for striking with the object in question?

Tell me a better way for cane strike, I am all ears. I watched escrima, tapado, irish stick, hanbo. Nothing really that useful, just a lot of moves that looks good, nothing comes close to a good simple swing that hits hard, pull back to recover and strike again. All the fancy movement, bouncing the stick on the elbow(irish), switching hand strike(hanbo and irish), hitting the ground every time(tapado) and fancy twirling(escrima) that people hit each other stupid and still standing after the whole round.

Tell me one that works, I am all ears. I don't even want to look for a school after watching all those.

After a year and half practice, I believe using two hands with a 20oz stick, concentrate in hitting the lower body hard is the best and no nonsense and effective way. Nothing showey, just simple strike, hit as hard as possible.

 

[Alan0354]

The way you cut with a machete is much closer to the way you would hit with a stick. The way you cut with a katana is very different than the way you cut with a machete or hit with a stick. If you used a katana the same way as you use a machete... it would not work very well at all, and could destroy your katana.

Just look at the motion and use it to fit to the blunt instrument. It's not black and white. Yes, cutting with machete is closer, but do they have machete fight that I can reference? Short of that, taking out from Katana is about the closest, take out the little slice. Katana chop is at least 90% chop and only 10% slice. You can see in the video already. Take out the slice and if fits perfect for cane.

Actually your video is helpful. The guy explain on the "chop", about the body that I already know. But he gave me the idea about the wrist motion that he elaborated. That's good info, I use more body, legs to add to the swing, I use arm and shoulder to add to it. But I kept my wrist quite stiff. Now I am going to practice the wrist to add the last little bit to the chop.

For blunt instrument, the idea of chinguchi is very important to add the whole body into one point impact to get the max force. The wrist will add to it. That was a GOOD demonstration. Good video

 

[Steve]

The way you cut with a machete is much closer to the way you would hit with a stick. The way you cut with a katana is very different than the way you cut with a machete or hit with a stick. If you used a katana the same way as you use a machete... it would not work very well at all, and could destroy your katana.

But what if you're not cutting at all, but are using a cane? I'm not trying to be obtuse. I'm trying to make two simple points. First, that the idea of looking at one thing for inspiration with another isn't all that crazy or obscure.

And second that, in my opinion, folks seem to be hung up on the simile and missing the literal point. In rereading @Alan0354 's posts, I didn't see anywhere that he's literally cutting anything, but is instead literally talking about using a chopping motion inspired by videos of katana training and adapting them to his cane. I may be wrong, but if he's not cutting anything, you guys may be getting twisted up over nothing.

 

[Buka]

If you don't travel often, it can be really stressful. TSA is trying to keep the line moving, and I've seen a lot of folks get stressed out because they feel like they have to move fast, which can actually cause them to miss stuff, not hear instructions, and make things go slower. The folks behind you can sometimes add pressure too, especially if they appear to be in a rush (which a lot of folks in the airport are)... just adding more pressure. But there are a few things you can do.

My recommendations for getting through TSA as stress free as possible are pretty simple. Check out the rules for your airport in advance. This will help you know what you need to put in checked baggage, what you can carry on, and how you need to pack it. For example, if you don't want to check a bag, you'll probably need to make sure that your toiletries are in small bottles, and in quart sized ziploc bags. Sometimes, they want you to pull those out and put them in a bin... sometimes, they don't. Some places will ask you to run your kindle and phone through seperately, some don't. And so on.

Once you're at the security line, if you're not sure what the rules are, I recommend getting into a longer line (counterintuitive, I know). This will allow a little room to breathe and give you some time to see what the folks in front of you are being asked to do. Then get your own stuff ready. So, for example, you'll be able to see if they're asking folks to spread out into separate bins or cram them into one. Another example is usually, they want you to remove your shoes, but not always.

I rarely run into any issues. I smile a lot (I smile a lot in general), pay attention to what's going on around me, try to anticipate what they're going to need, and I try not to be a jerk. Makes the entire process pretty easy.

I blame some of the problems on the airlines. On what they allow passengers to have as "carry on".

Here on Maui, passengers, a lot of them old, overweight, out of shape and tired from their vacation, try to go up the escalators carrying so much stuff it's the proverbial accident waiting to happen. They have no free hand to hold the hand rail, they're on a moving platform and they are unbalanced with so many bags it looks like a Monty Python skit.

And they fall. Tumbling down the escalator knocking over other people as well. They get hurt and some have to be hospitalized. The escalator has to be shut down temorarilly, causing even more problems.

I always thought it strange that folks will spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on a Hawaiian vacation and then nickel and dime themselves to save forty bucks on a baggage fee.

To them all I can say is TIMBER.

 

[wab25]

But what if you're not cutting at all, but are using a cane? I'm not trying to be obtuse. I'm trying to make two simple points. First, that the idea of looking at one thing for inspiration with another isn't all that crazy or obscure.

Its not a crazy idea.... its just that he could pick better things to look at, that are closer to what he wants to do. Looking at the machete, would be much more applicable to what he wants to learn... and would make him much more effective, should he need to use it.

And second that, in my opinion, folks seem to be hung up on the simile and missing the literal point. In rereading @Alan0354 's posts, I didn't see anywhere that he's literally cutting anything, but is instead literally talking about using a chopping motion inspired by videos of katana training and adapting them to his cane. I may be wrong, but if he's not cutting anything, you guys may be getting twisted up over nothing.

The work has already been done. People have learned how to use sticks. While they use sticks to swing down... they have found ways to swing sticks down that are much more effective, when swinging a stick than trying to swing a stick like a katana. We are trying to point him in ways that will make him more effective at using his cane. But, he has a year and a half of self taught experience to know better...

After watching his videos... he would be much more effective, by using different examples and different ways of swinging the stick. Trying to copy a katana cut with his cane is holding back his effectiveness with the cane.

 

[wab25]

Tell me a better way for cane strike, I am all ears.

Are you??? I showed a bunch of hanbo videos that showed different ways to strike with a hanbo... all of which would be more effective than the strikes you are showing.

Here is another... with a cane this time...

Note he covers longer distance and shorter distance, and shows why to learn some of the alternate ways to hold the cane... even if it is not like a katana. His hits are much harder, much faster and leaves much smaller openings...

 

[Alan0354]

But what if you're not cutting at all, but are using a cane? I'm not trying to be obtuse. I'm trying to make two simple points. First, that the idea of looking at one thing for inspiration with another isn't all that crazy or obscure.

And second that, in my opinion, folks seem to be hung up on the simile and missing the literal point. In rereading @Alan0354 's posts, I didn't see anywhere that he's literally cutting anything, but is instead literally talking about using a chopping motion inspired by videos of katana training and adapting them to his cane. I may be wrong, but if he's not cutting anything, you guys may be getting twisted up over nothing.

EXACTLY

I look for movement that inspire me, I take it and incorporate into my arsenal. I think people take it all literal. Wab25 posted a video explaining the katana "chopping" motion that they add a little slice. If you watch the video, you can clearly see 90% chopping, 10% slicing. For is sword, that 10% is enough to cut deep already.

People get too hung up with the "exact" term and everything has to be literal. That's the reason I always skeptical with TMA and praising MMA. Like the example of the front step kick to the knee use by a lot of MMA in UFC that is so so effective. The idea is from Wing Chung. Is is exactly like how the WC kick is? It might not. IT'S THE IDEA OF STEPPING ON THE KNEEE OF THE OPPONENT. That's the essence of the kick. How you do it comes secondary.

 

[Alan0354]

Are you??? I showed a bunch of hanbo videos that showed different ways to strike with a hanbo... all of which would be more effective than the strikes you are showing.

Here is another... with a cane this time...

Note he covers longer distance and shorter distance, and shows why to learn some of the alternate ways to hold the cane... even if it is not like a katana. His hits are much harder, much faster and leaves much smaller openings...

Yes, I watch the hanbo. I watched half of it, it's not very effective. I explain in detail to you already if you read it. The most important thing in hanbo I saw is they hold the stick with thumbs facing each other and hit with the end of the stick. They use mirror movement between left and right to strike. You cannot do it with a cane. the cane has a crook handle that you cannot mirror. Also, the crook end has a hook. You hit like that, you risk hooking on the opponent and pull the cane off your hand.

Also and more importantly, you CANNOT HIT THAT HARD using the technique holding the stick with thumbs facing inward. I even show you the video how I practice. I use that movement for hitting 9 months ago already. I practice that. You cannot hit that hard. Notice I hold the crook end with my right hand and punch out like cross punching. Using the hard crook end to hit the opponent. THAT, has a lot more force that what the hanbo is doing.

I paid a lot of attention and I responded to you and even upload my video to show I use part of it without even watching hanbo.

I yet to watch your other videos. I'll be back.

This video is by Blindside. I learn so much from him in CASTING. That, I spent months practicing. That is really useful in making the strike very compact but still hits hard. 75% of my cane practice was learning from him.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is a stick not quite different from a machete or an empty hand? I don't get it.

Yes. As I said, it makes more sense within a single system, where you're leveraging movements to learn multiple uses. That assumes the learner is being taght proper use of the gross movements (not just going by what they look like, which can be deceiving) and that the movements were selected because they work well with both weapons. They may not be the optimal movement for one weapon or the other, but provide a good base for both.

When learning one weapon (as opposed to multiple weapons within a system), I don't think it's at all the same.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Tell me a better way for cane strike, I am all ears. I watched escrima, tapado, irish stick, hanbo. Nothing really that useful, just a lot of moves that looks good, nothing comes close to a good simple swing that hits hard, pull back to recover and strike again. All the fancy movement, bouncing the stick on the elbow(irish), switching hand strike(hanbo and irish), hitting the ground every time(tapado) and fancy twirling(escrima) that people hit each other stupid and still standing after the whole round.

Tell me one that works, I am all ears. I don't even want to look for a school after watching all those.

After a year and half practice, I believe using two hands with a 20oz stick, concentrate in hitting the lower body hard is the best and no nonsense and effective way. Nothing showey, just simple strike, hit as hard as possible.

Hanbo strikes, and even some jo strikes, would be more suited than trying to adapt a cut to striking. Because they are strikes. Properly understood, escrima strikes can work as well (at least the basic ones I know). The principles used in all of those would apply to the cane with varying adaptations.

 

[Steve]

Yes. As I said, it makes more sense within a single system, where you're leveraging movements to learn multiple uses. That assumes the learner is being taght proper use of the gross movements (not just going by what they look like, which can be deceiving) and that the movements were selected because they work well with both weapons. They may not be the optimal movement for one weapon or the other, but provide a good base for both.

When learning one weapon (as opposed to multiple weapons within a system), I don't think it's at all the same.

I hear you. I just think, for this discussion, we're overthinking it by a lot. If @Alan0354 wants to cut with a katana, all of this great information you and others are sharing may be helpful. But he's not. Right?

 

[wab25]

The most important thing in hanbo I saw is they hold the stick with thumbs facing each other and hit with the end of the stick.

I showed 3 hanbo videos... the first one showed strikes with one hand holding the hanbo. These strikes were faster and would hit harder than swinging it like a katana. They also offer more reach than swinging like a katana.

The second video showed a different way of holding the hanbo one handed... and you strike with it differently. This gives you different opportunities to strike... and helps out if you don't have time to get to your two hand posture.

Both of these videos show strikes that would be much more effective than using the cane like a katana. They are faster, more reach, and would do more damage to the other guy.

The third video was more about what to do when the other guy grabs your cane. Yes, he used fancy wrist locking done with the hanbo... and yes, in real life, the guy would just let go.... but thats what you want.... when he lets go, you hit him again.... if he doesn't you break his wrist.

Also and more importantly, you CANNOT HIT THAT HARD using the technique holding the stick with thumbs facing inward.

Sometimes its not about generating the maximum force. If the guy is too close for your maximum force swing... maybe you need something else. If you are in a small space... maybe you need something different. For hanbo and cane, holding with the thumbs inward is for close quarter fighting... after the guy got too close to use you harder strikes that require distance.

The last video I showed... the guy is using a cane, and showing how to use the hook to your advantage. Hanbo would give you better long range strikes.... they would be faster and hit harder and leave you less open... it would give you a middle range, when they get too close for the big strikes, it would give you a close range where you are grappling... it will also teach you to respond when they grab your cane... even if the fancy technique does not "work" you end up with their hand off your cane and you in a position to strike them... maybe not with the maximum possible power... but certainly with a target open to a strike that will be much harder than your fist.... from there you should be able to gain the distance for the harder strike... and the cane / hanbo style one handed strikes will be much more effective.

 

[jstacy1228]

I hear you. I just think, for this discussion, we're overthinking it by a lot. If @Alan0354 wants to cut with a katana, all of this great information you and others are sharing may be helpful. But he's not. Right?

I don't disagree with that, though I do agree with Mr. Seymour as well that hanbo stuff would be my go-to if I was going to study more steps I could apply to canes in-depth.

That said, there's also a ton of just straight-up cane stuff out there (some of which I know Alan has looked at and adapted or discarded for his preferences, which is all good) so I don't really get why one wouldn't just go with that.

I can even find stuff for cane defense for seniors and the disabled... not as much as the stuff fit, abled people train with, but even this is out there. There's one guy who owns a dojo and puts up free lessons on this stuff, and so far I think much of what he tries to show is applicable to a disabled person who needs to use a cane, which is something you don't see often.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I hear you. I just think, for this discussion, we're overthinking it by a lot. If @Alan0354 wants to cut with a katana, all of this great information you and others are sharing may be helpful. But he's not. Right?

Look at my posts - I didn't say much about the kata, just that it's not a good model for striking with a blunt weapon. There are better places to find 2-hand striking.

 

[wab25]

I hear you. I just think, for this discussion, we're overthinking it by a lot. If @Alan0354 wants to cut with a katana, all of this great information you and others are sharing may be helpful. But he's not. Right?

Its the opposite... he wants to hit with a cane. The information we are sharing with him is to help him hit with his cane better.

 

[Alan0354]

Are you??? I showed a bunch of hanbo videos that showed different ways to strike with a hanbo... all of which would be more effective than the strikes you are showing.

Here is another... with a cane this time...

Note he covers longer distance and shorter distance, and shows why to learn some of the alternate ways to hold the cane... even if it is not like a katana. His hits are much harder, much faster and leaves much smaller openings...

Actually I learn the most from Blindside. He even MADE me a video showing me about CASTING:

75% of my cane fight was learned from him. I spend so much time practicing the CASTING.

 

[Alan0354]

Oh upper body strength is very important, no argument there. It is necessary to compensate for a weaker lower half, for sure (and a good thing to have even if your lower half is strong).

It's not that I'd be totally helpless if I had to hit someone with a cane--it would just require very specific circumstances for it to work in my favor. I'd need time to widen my stance, I'd need to have something behind me so that it would be harder to knock me down, and I'd need to be ready to swing the cane while maintaining my balance, managing my fear, and hoping that one or two strikes with basically no footwork would do the job. If any of that is out of place, my odds are really not very good.

I see the appeal of the cane; I would just probably see it more if my body worked properly to where I didn't need it. But, I might just as easily feel secure without any weapon or improvised weapon, too. I've never lived like that so I can't really say, I might think completely different about self-defense, honestly. In any case, I wish you well in your endeavors.

I don't pretend to be in your shoe. It's obvious that you like to learn self defense, or else you won't be hanging around here with old foggies like us. You still in your 30s!!!

That said, too bad life is not fair, you dealt with a bad hand. I don't pretend to know how you feel. One think I know is if one want something bad, there is always a way, it just takes more determination. I have a little of this. When I was in the early 30s, I was so into TKD I worked very hard. My back gave out on me after 3 years from all the high kicks. I really pushed myself. For two years, I could not stand for 2 minutes without the tinkling all the way down to my foot. I was disabled. I did not give up. The doctor put me on PT with weight, that literally saved my life. I slowly work my way back, working on heavy bags and all that. It's been over 30 years, I never stop.

My point is there's will, there's a way. Now I talk about it. But when i was fighting through it, I don't even want to talk, I just do. If you really want it, I don't know of any reason why you cannot start doing weights on your upper body. I don't know your condition and I am not a doctor. If you really want to improve you lower body, talk to the doctor, tell the doctor you want to strengthen your legs, ask whether you can get into PT with weight training on your lower body.

I am not going to paint a pretty picture, you might never get back to like a normal person even if you work hard on strength training on your lower body. BUT at least if you get stronger, that would help. It will open up more option. If you have the determination, talk to your doctor.

Hell, if you can get very strong on you upper body, if you get a 17" arm, people will think twice before picking on you!!! If you are strong enough, you can use two cane, one on your left hand to be on the ground like a 3rd leg to help with your two legs, the right hand swing the cane for defense and fight. design the two cane so they can be held together as one piece so you only have one cane(combined of two) to walk. Separate them for fighting so you have 3 legs and one hand to fight.

I am not saying this is the answer. You have the will, think of ways to make it work. Just keep thinking and come up with solution.

This is what I am doing. Because of my back, I have to think of different ways, not just follow on style because it won't work. Think outside of the box to fit my particular strong and weak point. BE CREATIVE.

One think I do every morning before I even get out of the bed. I just lie there and THINK, just think of possible solution in everything facing me. Not just MA, but other things. I was an EE, you don't know how many ideas I came up with from lying in bed. I had a big bout with back problem just a month or so ago, nothing I did before helped. I came up with totally new exercise just from lying in bed and I am up and exercise again.

Have the determination, THINK out of the box if you really want it. Do something about it.

 

[Alan0354]

Are you??? I showed a bunch of hanbo videos that showed different ways to strike with a hanbo... all of which would be more effective than the strikes you are showing.

Here is another... with a cane this time...

Note he covers longer distance and shorter distance, and shows why to learn some of the alternate ways to hold the cane... even if it is not like a katana. His hits are much harder, much faster and leaves much smaller openings...

I just watched this, watch my video from yesterday, you see the similarity on the poking and strike with the crook end of the cane. I never watch this video, but I HAD THOUGHT about these already and show on the video I taped 9 months ago which is half the time of my whole adventure on stick fight.

I saw the swinging of the cane holding the crook end long time ago. I DEEMED IT'S USELESS. It's no better than escrima that swing wild and ONLY work if you have wide open space with NOTHING in the way.

One has to THINK!!! NOT JUST BLIND FOLLOW. I have a very open mind. I watch some of the hanbo, I THINK. I yet to watch your other 3 videos, I'll be back with all that.

ONE cannot blindly follow anything. WATCH AND THINK. that's what is SO WRONG of the TMA, that you have to follow blindly. Look at the revolution of MMA in UFC in the last 30 years. They are SO FAR ahead in fighting no TMA can even get into the octagon and resolve in trash talk, insist they are right and making excuses why MMA is not valid. THINK, LEARN, HAVE OPEN MIND, BE HUMBLE. The world is leaving the old style behind!!!

We waste so much time debating whether it's chopping or slicing. JUST look at it!!! For cry out loud!!! Watch UFC, I can even tell around what year the fight was because I can see the stage of evolution in fighting. Royce Gracie KILLED the TMA in the 90s, ABSOLUTE KILL THEM. Then in 10 years, Gracie got CREAMED by Matt huges. Then Huges got slaughtered shortly. They are improving everyday and TMA still stuck in the last century debating about the names!!

BAN me, It's time for people to wake up!!! Have a mind of your own and think.

 

[Wing Woo Gar]

I just watched this, watch my video from yesterday, you see the similarity on the poking and strike with the crook end of the cane. I never watch this video, but I HAD THOUGHT about these already and show on the video I taped 9 months ago which is half the time of my whole adventure on stick fight.

I saw the swinging of the cane holding the crook end long time ago. I DEEMED IT'S USELESS. It's no better than escrima that swing wild and ONLY work if you have wide open space with NOTHING in the way.

One has to THINK!!! NOT JUST BLIND FOLLOW. I have a very open mind. I watch some of the hanbo, I THINK. I yet to watch your other 3 videos, I'll be back with all that.

ONE cannot blindly follow anything. WATCH AND THINK. that's what is SO WRONG of the TMA, that you have to follow blindly. Look at the revolution of MMA in UFC in the last 30 years. They are SO FAR ahead in fighting no TMA can even get into the octagon and resolve in trash talk, insist they are right and making excuses why MMA is not valid. THINK, LEARN, HAVE OPEN MIND, BE HUMBLE. The world is leaving the old style behind!!!

We waste so much time debating whether it's chopping or slicing. JUST look at it!!! For cry out loud!!! Watch UFC, I can even tell around what year the fight was because I can see the stage of evolution in fighting. Royce Gracie KILLED the TMA in the 90s, ABSOLUTE KILL THEM. Then in 10 years, Gracie got CREAMED by Matt huges. Then Huges got slaughtered shortly. They are improving everyday and TMA still stuck in the last century debating about the names!!

BAN me, It's time for people to wake up!!! Have a mind of your own and think.

Alan, I have an idea, seriously, start a senior league fight club.65 and up. I really think you could start with a few competitions on YouTube. It’s absolutely going to get views.

 

[Alan0354]

Alan, I have an idea, seriously, start a senior league fight club.65 and up. I really think you could start with a few competitions on YouTube. It’s absolutely going to get views.

Absolutely not interested in this. I know a lot of people like to make a hit in social media, not me. I am still debating whether I want to write a patent application on some of my ideas in hifi amplifiers. I just got a patent last year that I was one of the designer of a system. Getting a name in social is the last thing that interested me.

I can tell you, this is not unique here in MA world. I on and off going to firearm forum as I was very into shooting for years before. I am absolutely surprised after there are so much improvement in handguns in the last 40 years that there are a lot of people still die hard on the old 1911 that was designed over 100 years ago.

Look at the new designs like Glocks, S&W and a lot of others. We are into the space age, polymer frame that are stronger than any aluminum frame and so much lighter than steel. New design with single piece feed ramp unlike the old design of two piece feedramp of 1911 that is very hard to be reliable with JHP. Modern guns with wide open ejector port that unlike those 1911 with small side ejector port that cause FTE. The new generation guns are so much more reliable and last longer....................BUT NOOOOOOOOO!!!! So many people are dead set for 1911 and still debating about it.

I know a lot about guns, I do gun smithing. I own the Colt Gold Cup which is the 1911. I did accurizing, squeezed the slide, change everything to get it to very tight fit and made it very accurate to go to competitions. I know 1911 to say all these. It's not like I don't know about it. 1911 is just so behind time it's not even funny. But people still defend it to death.