Most Dangerous (as in Useless) Self-Defense Technique Taught?

[MI_martialist]

I have experienced some material that is part of a formal curriculum, that is overly complex and makes lots of unrealistic assumptions about what might be possible in the chaotic environment of personal conflict and violence. If it was meant as fight choreography for an action movie well maybe ok then. But not in a real fight.

Some people suggest that this material is meant to explore possibilities and is not meant to be taken literally. Maybe, maybe not. The way they tend to be taught, from what I have seen, suggests otherwise. And exploring possibilities should not include formalizing and systematically practicing that which is NOT a possibility.

And don't forget that "self defense" needs to be immediately accessible...not in a while, once we understand the possibilities...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And don't forget that "self defense" needs to be immediately accessible...not in a while, once we understand the possibilities...

So, the only valid self-defense techniques are those which can be used effectively upon first seeing them?

 

[MI_martialist]

So, the only valid self-defense techniques are those which can be used effectively upon first seeing them?

Did I say that? No, I didn't. But self-defense can be what ever the self-defense teacher wants it to be. Personal Protection applications MUST be IMMEDIATELY applicable because the consequences are the gravest. That does not mean that more "advanced" applications are not taught...but they are NEVER taught at first.

 

[Flying Crane]

Did I say that? No, I didn't. But self-defense can be what ever the self-defense teacher wants it to be. Personal Protection applications MUST be IMMEDIATELY applicable because the consequences are the gravest. That does not mean that more "advanced" applications are not taught...but they are NEVER taught at first.

Well, there are no guarantees.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Did I say that? No, I didn't. But self-defense can be what ever the self-defense teacher wants it to be. Personal Protection applications MUST be IMMEDIATELY applicable because the consequences are the gravest. That does not mean that more "advanced" applications are not taught...but they are NEVER taught at first.

(Now you're reversion "self defense" and "personal protection"...)

Those are two different statements. Almost nothing is going to be ready to apply without some repetition. One class won't do it. So if it must be "IMMEDIATELY applicable", there's almost nothing to work with. A good punch is not "IMMEDIATELY applicable" until the person learns to punch well.

 

[MI_martialist]

Well, there are no guarantees.

I agree that there are no guarantees, but with proper programming, one can significantly increase the chances of survival. Even if one does not survive, one can and will fight!!

 

[MI_martialist]

So, the only valid self-defense techniques are those which can be used effectively upon first seeing them?

I will also add...why would one think that something would be applicable upon seeing it? Especially something physical that needs to be experienced and felt?

 

[MI_martialist]

(Now you're reversion "self defense" and "personal protection"...)

Those are two different statements. Almost nothing is going to be ready to apply without some repetition. One class won't do it. So if it must be "IMMEDIATELY applicable", there's almost nothing to work with. A good punch is not "IMMEDIATELY applicable" until the person learns to punch well.

(Now you're reversion "self defense" and "personal protection"...) - I really don't know what this means.

Did I say somewhere that the person only does it 1 time? It can be done multiple times during a session...but by the end of the session, if the trainee cannot act to protect what is personal, what really happened during the session?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I will also add...why would one think that something would be applicable upon seeing it? Especially something physical that needs to be experienced and felt?

You said it had to be immediately applicable. "Upon first seeing it" is an expression that refers to not needing a second exposure.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

(Now you're reversion "self defense" and "personal protection"...) - I really don't know what this means.

Apparently, my iPad didn't like whatever typo I made with "reversing". My point was that "self defense" refers to defending - as in what happens during an attack. "Self protection" is a larger umbrella, including avoidance, etc.

Did I say somewhere that the person only does it 1 time? It can be done multiple times during a session...but by the end of the session, if the trainee cannot act to protect what is personal, what really happened during the session?

I know of nothing that will be universally (or even close to universally) applicable after a single session. Someone could study a single punch (or block, or any other technique) for an hour, and a week later they will not have the reflexes and pattern recognition to use it. They won't even have the habit for it. Some may use it if the opportunity presents, but most at that point will still fall back on what their body would have done prior to that 1-hour session.

Repetition over time is necessary. The biggest part of being effective in a fight isn't actually the techniques, it's the pattern recognition that allows you to spot the opportunity for the technique. That requires retraining the brain, and that takes many more hours.

 

[Paul_D]

Am I to take it that as no one else has posted any other techniques, I win?

 

[MI_martialist]

Apparently, my iPad didn't like whatever typo I made with "reversing". My point was that "self defense" refers to defending - as in what happens during an attack. "Self protection" is a larger umbrella, including avoidance, etc.


I know of nothing that will be universally (or even close to universally) applicable after a single session. Someone could study a single punch (or block, or any other technique) for an hour, and a week later they will not have the reflexes and pattern recognition to use it. They won't even have the habit for it. Some may use it if the opportunity presents, but most at that point will still fall back on what their body would have done prior to that 1-hour session.

Repetition over time is necessary. The biggest part of being effective in a fight isn't actually the techniques, it's the pattern recognition that allows you to spot the opportunity for the technique. That requires retraining the brain, and that takes many more hours.

Good thing I never said anything about rote memorization and learning techniques to puke back up, or not as it won't happen.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Good thing I never said anything about rote memorization and learning techniques to puke back up, or not as it won't happen.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

 

[wingchun100]

I'm not sure what your point is here.

Seconded.

 

[TieXiongJi]

Grab the live side of the blade.
Turn your back on your attacker.
Leave him on balance.

No problems here. Finally people are taking notice of the quality techniques coming out of Krav Maga.

 

[JP3]

I have a hip twist to spinning back kick drill just to prepare for one.

You are mnean to girls, man...
I mean, they are just tryin' to kick 'em in the nuts, and there you go... teaching dudes how to slip hips, gain rotational torque, and release it in linear form directly into the soft abdomen of the (I'll remove sexist joke context above) ill-informed person attacking. Mean trick.

But... I approve, I must say.

 

[KangTsai]

You are mnean to girls, man...
I mean, they are just tryin' to kick 'em in the nuts, and there you go... teaching dudes how to slip hips, gain rotational torque, and release it in linear form directly into the soft abdomen of the (I'll remove sexist joke context above) ill-informed person attacking. Mean trick.

But... I approve, I must say.

Women make the street more dangerous because the groin shot's effectiveness is reduced significantly.

 

[frank raud]

I took a Systema seminar at a multi-martial arts convention. It is the only seminar I have ever left the mat in the middle of the session.. They were teaching knife "defense". The instructor explained that because a knife was so small and easy to conceal, you most likely wouldn't see it before you were stabbed, so practicing blocking techniques was a waste of time. What he was demonstrating was once you were stabbed, to twist your body to prevent the blade from entering deeper into the body. Realize we were using wooden practice knives, so no one was actually having their body pierced by a blade, and of course you were doing it at slow speed "so you could understand the mechanics"

 

[Balrog]

You would think that, I know I did, but that myth was dashed completely after that class. Apparently Nuns working at Catholic hospitals are not as skilled, or as terrifying, as Nuns at Catholic schools

Hmmmm....

 

[Xue Sheng]

Hmmmm....

Obviously those are nuns who work as teachers in schools, not nuns who work in hospitals