What Self-Defense Is NOT

[Bill Mattocks]

Back to the original topic... the term "Self Defense" is slightly nebulous, but many would agree it involves protecting life (your's or family) from threats, and that SD technially ends once the threat no longer is imminent. Armed vs unarmed both can fall into the category of SD depending on your preference, what is available to you at the time, and what level of force was appropriate.
After the fact, if legal action occurs, you may then have to justify your SD actions to a jury who are safely sitting in a jury box with an armed bailiff to protect them. This is sometimes your most perilous time. The jury gets to decide the apropriateness of your actions from a safe, sterile setting with no danger, fear, or adrenaline. The may decide the lifetime career criminal whose arm you crippled with a well executed jujigatame was destined for a future as a neurosurgeon, and you just ruined his life... justifying him recieving huge compensation from you.
So even if you do everything "right", there's always a chance someone else will disagree.

I absolutely agree with the above. Self-defense is both a personal decision as well as a legal term in that sense, and it may not mean the same thing in both arenas.

I believe it is wise to be familiar with the laws of self-defense where you work and live, and to keep in mind that just because a person believes that they engaged in legitimate self-defense, that doesn't mean they cannot be arrested, charged with a crime, sued, etc. That doesn't mean one should take a beating, acquiesce to a robbery, or otherwise become an intentional victim; it just means one must be aware that actions have consequences, even when things are done as they should be.

I do not propose that one should live their life on their knees, on the contrary. However, I do believe that it is wise to avoid situations that might require a person to defend themselves with violence, like getting into road-rage arguments, fights in bars, etc. If you don't let yourself get into those situations, you won't have to deal with the consequences even when you might be in the right both legally and morally.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

However, I do believe that it is wise to avoid situations that might require a person to defend themselves with violence, like getting into road-rage arguments, fights in bars, etc. If you don't let yourself get into those situations, you won't have to deal with the consequences even when you might be in the right both legally and morally.

Concur. I make it a habit to avoid neighborhoods/establishments where I'm likely to need to defend myself. I'm pretty even tempered, so it is highly unlikely that I would be the one to start a fight.
However, if someone else comes along and makes the decision for me that it's time for us to fight, I'll do my best to defeat them. I'd base my actions on whether their attack appears based on social vs. asocial violence, use of weapons, does he have buddies, and if there were witnesses or security cameras around.
In one of Massad Ayoob's books, he discusses that if you are forced into a shooting situation, it's advisable to scream "Please don't hurt me!" prior to the shoot so you appear to be defensive and scared in the eyes of witnesses, who likely didn't actually see what was happening until they heard the bang and/or your scream (and who may be anti-gun and see your use of a gun as something evil). Similar advice would even be useful in unarmed situations to yell something to the effect of "Please... i don't want to fight you"... even though inside you're really giddy at the chance to try out your latest joint attack to see how well it works. In either case, tell the police "He wouldn't stop coming... I was in fear for my life" to reinforce the idea that you were forced into the situation. After the incident, you're still defending yourself... but now the risk becomes the legal system.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

These are truisms that some 'macho types' seem to have a problem grasping. When the police officer asks "Were you in fear of your life," Mister Super-Karate Macho Man says "Hell, naw, man. I ain't afraid of nuttin'." Nice work earning yourself an assault charge, there Champ.

There are a number of self-defense drills that work really nicely from a 'hands up' position. "Hey, man, I'm not looking for any trouble, please leave me alone," etc.

Some of that gets back to the old 'first strike' thing. No, you don't have to wait to be swung on to be able to legally defend yourself. The guy dukes up on you, raises his hands as if to strike you, or even says "I am gonna kick your a$$," they have already assaulted you and you (in fear of your life) may now legally defend yourself in most jurisdictions (IANAL).

 

[lklawson]

Back to the original topic... the term "Self Defense" is slightly nebulous, but many would agree it involves protecting life (your's or family) from threats, and that SD technially ends once the threat no longer is imminent. Armed vs unarmed both can fall into the category of SD depending on your preference, what is available to you at the time, and what level of force was appropriate.

The reasonable threat of death or serious bodily harm to yourself or an innocent 3rd Party.

After the fact, if legal action occurs, you may then have to justify your SD actions to a jury who are safely sitting in a jury box with an armed bailiff to protect them. This is sometimes your most perilous time. The jury gets to decide the apropriateness of your actions from a safe, sterile setting with no danger, fear, or adrenaline. The may decide the lifetime career criminal whose arm you crippled with a well executed jujigatame was destined for a future as a neurosurgeon, and you just ruined his life... justifying him recieving huge compensation from you.
So even if you do everything "right", there's always a chance someone else will disagree.

The "Reasonable Man" test.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[GiYu - Todd]

Some of that gets back to the old 'first strike' thing. No, you don't have to wait to be swung on to be able to legally defend yourself. The guy dukes up on you, raises his hands as if to strike you, or even says "I am gonna kick your a$$," they have already assaulted you and you (in fear of your life) may now legally defend yourself in most jurisdictions (IANAL).

OH... that means "I Am Not A Lawyer". For a second, I thought you were vastly changing the topic.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

OH... that means "I Am Not A Lawyer". For a second, I thought you were vastly changing the topic.

Yeah, I usually insert that (see what I did there?) whenever I say something that someone, somewhere, might construe as legal advice. I am no lawyer, I don't give legal advice. Just my opinion of what I happen to think the law is...