physical fitness & self defense.

[Aikicomp]

I seriously doubt that he pushed the cold away, perhaps warmed his body a touch and caused a bit of steaming. Also I will add one thing. There is a book out there called 'Angry White Pyjamas' by a guy who went and did the Yoshinkan Aikido's police riot course. During his time there the founder Gozo Shioda passed away. After the funeral a large group of high ranking students (well into the dan levels) went out for the wake and got into a fight. No Aikido came out, it was a messy punch on. Now I'm not saying it ever would but it certainly made me doubt that any KI could be developed on the spot to use in a fight. Also it isn't something you can use in a fight from the beginning, it takes many years in an art form such as aikido to get the techniques to a point where they are effortless and just flow with or without the use of ki.
Cheers
Sam:asian:

I don't know what else to tell you.

I've tried to explain what Ki is about, how it can be learned, practiced and used. I've explained how any Martial Artist who learns it should be able to turn it on and off at will or use it or not use it, again at will and you choose to write no you can't, I doubt it and it can't be done. I've put forward how our style of Ju-Jitsu learns and applies the principles Ki, if you choose to doubt it and don't believe it, then there's not anything I can do or say to convince you. (you've limited yourself before trying to learn something new).

Michael

 

[searcher]

I live in the state next to the "Show-me" state and I tend to be corrupted by them over there. So if we are talking Ki, Chi,....., then I want to feel it.


But I want you to tell me exactly how you want me, so my twitching eye or intestinal gas does not throw you off.

 

[jarrod]

i know what you mean jon. they corrupted me for years by selling beer on sunday.

jf

 

[thetruth]

I don't know what else to tell you.

I've tried to explain what Ki is about, how it can be learned, practiced and used. I've explained how any Martial Artist who learns it should be able to turn it on and off at will or use it or not use it, again at will and you choose to write no you can't, I doubt it and it can't be done. I've put forward how our style of Ju-Jitsu learns and applies the principles Ki, if you choose to doubt it and don't believe it, then there's not anything I can do or say to convince you. (you've limited yourself before trying to learn something new).

Michael

I choose based on experience I'm not just writing it off with out ever having tried. By all means if you're ever in Australia or I'm ever in America I'll look you up and you can show me

Cheers
Sam:asian:

 

[redantstyle]

The other 30% is reserved for survial situations, like a murder breaks into your home.

this is one very practical way of looking at it. this may even be the 'truest' definition of chi.

on the practice level you've got biomechanics, muscle tonus, harmonized respiration, and varying levels of trance induction.

 

[Aikicomp]

I'm not very religious. I don't think I ever will be in terms of existentialism. Spirtuality? I suppose I'm open to the suggestion but that still leads one to the argument of who controls this energy? I have heard people say people like Einstein knew about it. I have nothing against religion in terms of value though, like I would be open to Buddhism or something that as a way of life, but I just personally would never subscribe to anything "humans" think they discovered cause I would assume they made it. Which is the forefront of why I could take in a way of living and conduct, just never a belief of higher power, not on that is concerened with just humans. I will stop there cause I wanted to try to walk around this cause the religion can cause unncessary discussion.


Regardless, I believe you that ki has helped you. I don't doubt that. I'm a philospher in my mind, I analyze and think too much. I am not just someone who "accepts" a concept without knowing why. Hence why religion and even math (although math always has a reason why, I'm the type of person that needs to know that why and becomes severely befuddled until I figure it out, which in actuality, might not be necessary)

I'm that way to mostly, however with Ki the more you try to confine or find a reason why it is or why it works the harder it is to apply it. In short you have to trust that it is there and that you can use it and you will find it comes to you a lot easier. You do not have to figure out why it works all you have to do is trust that it does. Although that is easier said than done. (took me a long time to even believe it was there let alone trusting in it enough to actually apply it in exercises.)

Where I am going with this is, I would be very interested in taking in this concept of ki. Bruce Lee spoke of it I believe. I always wanted to know more of it but no one in my classes discuss it. Almost like it never exists.



But most importantly. I was just dicussing on my fitness forum about muscle fibers. They told me only the best athletes can recruit 70% of muscle fibers. The other 30% is reserved for survial situations, like a murder breaks into your home. I'm just curious, I wonder if this energy is really just the ability to acquire the muscle fibers in a more controlled motion? I am not trying to say Ki energy doesn't float around, but I'm just wondering if taking in such a belief can be avoided? Perhaps this could give an anatomical reasoning?

When I do the lift exercise (as stated in my other post) nothing changes in me physically (I do not gain weight). They can not lift me off the ground because I do not allow them to. I suppose you could try to do it with out taking a belief in it, but, Ki in itself is a rather obscure concept which in my experience has to be believed in to access it in the first place. If you doubt it it will never work.

My psychology professor told me things about spinning dervishes who are monks who can spin around for a period of time and stop and can take a piercing wound from a weapon and not even feel it or flinch from it. He also told me of his mother who had poor circulation and it took her a long time of trial error and almost giving up until she was able to control her heart. Her heart would speed up due to this poor circulatory condition and the specialist told her its possible to control your heart at times (which is a involuntary fuction) She eventually did learn it and lived way past her time with someone wtih that condition)

I know this is all very philosophical and I tend to analyze things like this...
I'm not sure what you think my attitude is cause it might be misinterpreted..but to summarize

1. ) I am very interested in this ki energy. (I actually have a filipino secondary instructor that did speak of this energy and was roman catholic and switched over to buddhism. He said since that transition, his martial arts went to higher levels.) I could speak to him.

I think talking to someone who can apply it is a good first step. As far as his change of religion helping him achieve higher levels of martial arts I can't comment on that.

2.) Is it necessary to believe in some outside force and to what extent?

Yes, Ki energy and to the extent that it is there and you can access it.

You dont' seem to have taken into Buddhism but you believe in ki.

It's not a religious thing, it's a mental thing. I will state that being Catholic myself the use of Ki as well as Ju-Jitsu does not conflict with my faith or it's teachings. (Although in the middle ages I might have been burned at the stake for being a witch. LOL)

Take your time reposting or send me a personal message. It is possible you just know how it works and not the whole wordly aspect of it. But enlighten me of what it is you do know.

It was hard for me to accept at first and when I saw my girlfriend do it and then a couple more people do as well, I figured I should just try to do what my teacher was telling me to do. Forget strength, forget ego and trust in yourself to do it.

Sometimes, you just have to do what you're told.

Michael

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

Is KI a complete spirtual basis

No. Ki/Qi simply means energy.

Is there actual any way you can scientifically explain it through anatomy?

You have Bioelectromagnetic energy. You have the different gas exhanges. ATP and Mitrochondrion. The break down and build up within the human body. All of these things require energy of some sort.
There is no mystical defination except when used in a religious manner.

What exactly is hidden energy like KI?

It is not hidden. If we look at the Earth's Qi(Di Qi )The defination would mostly be Geothermal or Geomagetic and so on. We can see the results of Geothermal energy.

that still leads one to the argument of who controls this energy

You can to a degree control it. But ATP Mitrochondrion,Gas exhanges and so on happen without the need of control. The breath can be control allowing for artificial breathing which can result in enriching the cells and other body functions. It can also be controled by movement,eating,adaptation of eniviroment and so on.

I am not trying to say Ki energy doesn't float around, but I'm just wondering if taking in such a belief can be avoided

The clearer the defination of what type of Qi being discussed the easier it is to pinpoint.

Perhaps this could give an anatomical reasoning?

It would most likely be in the cells which would make the concept of Jing(essence)Or DNA more reasonable.

I live in the state next to the "Show-me" state and I tend to be corrupted by them over there. So if we are talking Ki, Chi,....., then I want to feel it.

It took you energy(Qi) to write this. Neurons fire off impulses are sent to the fingers and so on. If you think of Qi by some mystical defination then you will not see it. If you think of Qi as energy then you can see it in Thermal,Electric,magnetic and other energy states.


Qi in religion and Qi as used in TCM medicine differ. One is a mystic,religious,belief the other is a more scientific understanding.

 

[Aikicomp]

No. Ki/Qi simply means energy.


You have Bioelectromagnetic energy. You have the different gas exhanges. ATP and Mitrochondrion. The break down and build up within the human body. All of these things require energy of some sort.
There is no mystical defination except when used in a religious manner.
It is not hidden. If we look at the Earth's Qi(Di Qi )The defination would mostly be Geothermal or Geomagetic and so on. We can see the results of Geothermal energy.

You can to a degree control it. But ATP Mitrochondrion,Gas exhanges and so on happen without the need of control. The breath can be control allowing for artificial breathing which can result in enriching the cells and other body functions. It can also be controled by movement,eating,adaptation of eniviroment and so on.



The clearer the defination of what type of Qi being discussed the easier it is to pinpoint.


It would most likely be in the cells which would make the concept of Jing(essence)Or DNA more reasonable.

It took you energy(Qi) to write this. Neurons fire off impulses are sent to the fingers and so on. If you think of Qi by some mystical defination then you will not see it. If you think of Qi as energy then you can see it in Thermal,Electric,magnetic and other energy states.


Qi in religion and Qi as used in TCM medicine differ. One is a mystic,religious,belief the other is a more scientific understanding.

Well put, hope it helps him.

Michael