Modern Arnis and Soke Boards

[Bob Hubbard]

TLL is right. There is no requirement to post said information publicly.

As to his other points, I asked a long time ago, never got a reall answer.
Who is the better martial artist?
1st dan Karate, 1st Modern Arnis, 1st Hung Gar, 1st Wing Chun, 1st EPAK, etc?

I'll expand, for the sake of argument here.
Dan Anderson has rank/certification in Modern Arnis, Karate, MA80 and Bram Franks system which I don't recall the name of at the moment.
Tim Hartman has rank/certification in Modern Arnis, Kombatan, Balintawak and Bando.
Who's the better martial artist?
Dan's written more books, maybe that's what counts.
Wait, Tim does more seminars, maybe that's the winner?
Dan has a GM title recognized by some of his peers, but so does Tim. Hmm.....
Well we could go on numerical ranks, but which is higher, a 9th in Kombatan, a 9th in Modern Arnis, a 9th in MA80?
We could count years in, but do we then subtract from Dans quiet period, or give him partial credit?
Do we count black belts produced, or size of organizations?

Or do we simply accept that they both are good, and one may be better than the other for what we are looking for, on any particular day?

Personally, I think they are both good, and I've seen both better and worse than them at seminars and in class. Some things, Dan's the man, others, it's Tim, for others it's both, and sometimes, it's neither. Their numerical ranks, titles, and paper mean less to me today than knowing who they are, and what they can do. Anyone can have paper that calls them Master. Few of them actually can live up to that claim. Dan and Tim can. IMHO.

I said sometime ago, somewhere, in a hut or cave is a damn good martial artist, who could fight and teach rings around everyone I know of, but no one knows of him as he's content in his quiet life.

Take it all for what it is. Back to my pre nap, nap now.

 

[The Game]

My head hurts. Too many big words. Want hit with stick. Grrrr.
:rofl:

I don't think anyone who knows Tim will say he has low self esteem.
:rofl:

As to soke's, it's not an Fillipino title, nor is it an American title. Only an absolute ignorant *** would claim it as such because "America's a melting pot" or like I heard once, that it was ok because a lineage ran back far enough to where it included a Japanese art.

Someone wants to claim to be a Soke, or a Duke or whatever fancy smancy title floats their canoe, hey, whatever. Someone wants to claim it's ok because someone else who claimed a title laid hands on them or blew some sacred smoke from the generic yellow pack on them, hey, whatever.

Here's the typical Soke showing off his rank.

 

[The Game]

Add to last post. We seem to know alot about Dan And Tim and less about those that are putting them down.

Bo Q
ROTU

Tim's biggest critics have been banned from here because they couldn't stop making everything a sling or arrow aimed at him or playing games with fake accounts here. That whole "obsesed and in need of therapy thing". They now play on their own small time list where most topics always come back to some form of complaining or whining about him.
They include a small time professor who runs an fma gym class, a small town teacher who runs a collage club, a small town cop, and a smaller still Navy desk jockey who's had a hard on for Hartman for over a decade. You can add to that mix a convicted traitor who was busted for attempting to sell secrets to the KGB. Oh and a bunch of other "people" that only exist to promote their stuff and talk crap about Tim. Hubbard called them "Sock Puppets", but they aint no lamb chops to me. But they aren't anyone important really, which I think frustrates them quite a bit.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Tim's biggest critics have been banned from here because they couldn't stop making everything a sling or arrow aimed at him or playing games with fake accounts here. That whole "obsesed and in need of therapy thing". They now play on their own small time list where most topics always come back to some form of complaining or whining about him.
They include a small time professor who runs an fma gym class, a small town teacher who runs a collage club, a small town cop, and a smaller still Navy desk jockey who's had a hard on for Hartman for over a decade. You can add to that mix a convicted traitor who was busted for attempting to sell secrets to the KGB. Oh and a bunch of other "people" that only exist to promote their stuff and talk crap about Tim. Hubbard called them "Sock Puppets", but they aint no lamb chops to me. But they aren't anyone important really, which I think frustrates them quite a bit.

Ya know....this crap isn't what we're here for. What others discuss elsewhere is their business. Those guys aren't here and haven't been here for a while, so I'd appreciate it if you'd stop bringing them up. Thanks.

 

[Archangel M]

While I dont want to encourage the direction this thread is going, what makes someone "important" anyway? Is that what this rank issue is about at its core? Importance?

If it is thats just sad. For those seeking rank and for those wasting their lives worrying about who has it.

 

[Dan Anderson]

A - No, as doing so might violate this sites Fraud Busting policies. You may goto Google and search yourself. There are threads about FMA sokedokes on some FMA sites where they were quite a bit more brutal in their evaluation of the batton twirling and speed wiggling that they saw than even I could be.

B - I currently train in the European arts. I tend to kick people alot. I also spend serious time swinging a Gladius (Mainz style is my preferred blade). Someone who is a Senior Master, a Grandmaster of 2 different systems, as well as a professor should be able to identify the arts easily I think.

C - I don't have to know your systems to identify quality or ********. I've been training and studying long enough to know the good from the bad. That is the same reasoning low esteem types use to justify promotions and awards from people outside their own arts.

- Keil

Keil,

Well, a first name is a start, anyway. Sorry, [A] is a cop out. is very lacking in substance. Keil who? Trained with who and for how long? How old are you? All my data is up on the web for anyone to see. Your first name is up and the rest is elephant talk unless your provide more. [C] is the unsubstantiated blathering you like to accuse us of.

If you have a question that is a query requesting information so as to heighten understanding, I'll answer any question you have. If you are questioning as in challenging, no more replies until you pony up with some hard, verifiable facts. Otherwise you are just resembling the Human Torch - "Flame On!"

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Dan Anderson]

Dan,

I've read through the thread and still just don't get it.

Tellner,

Now that was asking for information rather than a flame! PM me or email me through my website www.danandersonkarate.com and I'll answer all your questions.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Dan,
He's right on the fraud busting claim, as are his comments that we don't require he ID any more than he did. Regarding Keil's ID, he stated this elsewhere so it's not a privacy violation. His name is in his profile, and he was on here back in 2001 as staff.

Regarding links, most won't do much good as they are for a site known for it's fraud busting that we won't allow links to.

Also, asking someone to PM/email you to answer could be a rules violation thingy. Why not just put it all out publicly?

 

[Dan Anderson]

Dan,
1. He's right on the fraud busting claim, as are his comments that we don't require he ID any more than he did. Regarding Keil's ID, he stated this elsewhere so it's not a privacy violation. His name is in his profile, and he was on here back in 2001 as staff. Regarding links, most won't do much good as they are for a site known for it's fraud busting that we won't allow links to.

2. Also, asking someone to PM/email you to answer could be a rules violation thingy. Why not just put it all out publicly?

Hi Bob,

1. Fair enough.
2. Because if anyone cares to really read what I have read, I have explained myself. Someone who has an inquiry deserves an answer. The game of parry and thrust with someone who won't listen or wants to continue to misduplicate is getting very old so now it's time to go personal Q&A.

That he was on here back in 2001 as staff... Hmmm.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[Perpetual White Belt]

Considering how close the GM Ernesto's and GM Remy's style are it's entirely possible that the ranks could be given at those levels. Many of the basics are the same. The same could be said of Gyi's certification. I'm sure Mr Hartman as a little more than a basic understanding of martial arts, so it's entirely possible that there too he could have skipped the basic levels so to speak and started working on the more advanced priciples to earn a higher level "faster" than most. As far as his self promotion goes. He did that to give his students room to grow with-in his orginization, and when it comes down to it that's all the belt number matters. His skill level is what matters outside of that, so he could be a white belt for all I care as long as he could teach me something and can get the message across. If you want to say that is a marketing tool to draw in the students I can prove you wrong there. The highest rank I've achieved is 3rd in Karate, but I advertise with my 1st in Senkotiros and I've been slowly but surely putting up better numbers in my classes than they guy down the street with his 9th degree in karate.

 

[Morgan]

Considering how close the GM Ernesto's and GM Remy's style are it's entirely possible that the ranks could be given at those levels. Many of the basics are the same. The same could be said of Gyi's certification. I'm sure Mr Hartman as a little more than a basic understanding of martial arts, so it's entirely possible that there too he could have skipped the basic levels so to speak and started working on the more advanced priciples to earn a higher level "faster" than most. As far as his self promotion goes. He did that to give his students room to grow with-in his orginization, and when it comes down to it that's all the belt number matters. His skill level is what matters outside of that, so he could be a white belt for all I care as long as he could teach me something and can get the message across. If you want to say that is a marketing tool to draw in the students I can prove you wrong there. The highest rank I've achieved is 3rd in Karate, but I advertise with my 1st in Senkotiros and I've been slowly but surely putting up better numbers in my classes than they guy down the street with his 9th degree in karate.

Just how close are the systems of Professor Presas and his brother GM Ernesto?

Are not the basics fairly close to some other systems of arnis, such as
balintawak, LaCoste and San Migel?

Morgan

 

[arnisador]

The brothers' arts have a great deal in common, but Balintawak is a large influence on Remy Presas' system only. I don't think there's really a connection to the LaCoste and San Miguel systems for eitehr of the brothers' arts..

 

[The Game]

Just how close are the systems of Professor Presas and his brother GM Ernesto?

Are not the basics fairly close to some other systems of arnis, such as
balintawak, LaCoste and San Migel?

Morgan

Wouldn't that be a good question to ask your instructor?

 

[The Game]

Wouldn't that be a good question to ask your instructor?

Seems the opinion of the peeps at FMATalk is that there's really no place in FMA for Sokes and Soke Boards.

 

[arnisador]

Seems the opinion of the peeps at FMATalk is that there's really no place in FMA for Sokes and Soke Boards.

Soke is just a JMA thing! It's too tied to the culture. The Filipino approach is so much less formal.

 

[The Game]

But wouldn't it be ok if you mixed you FMA with a little Kenpo?

 

[arnisador]

Kenpo is a broad term, and there is even a form of iaido known as kenpo; but the best-known type, American Kenpo, isn't Japanese. It's more derived from Southern Chinese kung fu.

 

[The Last Legionary]

My position's been that there is no place in the FMA for "Sokes". I see no reason to change that opinion.

 

[bobquinn]

That is the greatest thing about MT. It alows for oppions to be brought out and people to speak their minds.

Bob Q
official title
R O T U

 

[The Game]

Wait. I have a mind? Please, don't tell my wife. She said I'm not allowed to have one of my own.