MMA VS Traditional Martial Arts - article from Fox Baguazhang

[Chrisoro]

@drop bear
And my point still stands. If you judge a non-grappling martial art solely on how well it works alone in an MMA setting, against skilled MMA-fighters, you will not get meaningfull results on its potential effectiveness in against more average opponents outside the controlled environment of MMA. Which is what I wanted to show with the boxing-example.

 

[drop bear]

@drop bear
And my point still stands. If you judge a non-grappling martial art solely on how well it works alone in an MMA setting, against skilled MMA-fighters, you will not get meaningfull results on its potential effectiveness in against more average opponents outside the controlled environment of MMA. Which is what I wanted to show with the boxing-example.

Yes you will. You will find out if your non grappling martial art will get you taken down and beat up. Outside the controlled environment.

If you want to work on the theory that nobody will take you down on the street. Then that is your risk. If you want to find out what is going to work and what isn't in a setting where you get to keep your wallet afterwards. Do mma.

 

[drop bear]

Do people think you are not going to get double legged in a street fight?

It is not a secret move. It is not the domain of ufc fighters. Anybody can do it. Anybody can learn to defend against it.

 

[senseidave2005]

So it seems the discussion, goes around and around, getting no where in particular.....if you ask yourselves a base question..."What are the key differences between the MMA fighter and how they prepare themselves for combat..and the way a TMA practitioner prepares for his or her confrontation...?" I might suggest the level of athleticism of the two people differs as one is prepring to fight for a set number of minutes and a set number of rounds, therefore a certain physical prowess is strived for so that one can achieve he task should knock out or submission not be achieved. I respect this physicality and athleticism, for im not that fit. There are few if any TMA practitioners, that would, in my opinion want a confrontation to go , in my opinion, longer than 15-30 seconds, the mental approach is different. I dont want to confuse issues, but if I read right it has been established, that boxers train for boxing, kickboxers for kickboxing, Judo for judo, each is optimized by louring the opponent into that realm where they are not comfortable. Those that wish to dominate across the art train in all viable arts.... each has its benefit for where it is required... accept that the ring has rules and the street does not.. self defense is not a gentlemans game.... A level of etiquette is desired in the ring....this can not be said for a life or death scenario. Argue amongst yourselves all you want.... they are two different animals.....

 

[K-man]

So it seems the discussion, goes around and around, getting no where in particular.....if you ask yourselves a base question..."What are the key differences between the MMA fighter and how they prepare themselves for combat..and the way a TMA practitioner prepares for his or her confrontation...?" I might suggest the level of athleticism of the two people differs as one is prepring to fight for a set number of minutes and a set number of rounds, therefore a certain physical prowess is strived for so that one can achieve he task should knock out or submission not be achieved. I respect this physicality and athleticism, for im not that fit. There are few if any TMA practitioners, that would, in my opinion want a confrontation to go , in my opinion, longer than 15-30 seconds, the mental approach is different. I dont want to confuse issues, but if I read right it has been established, that boxers train for boxing, kickboxers for kickboxing, Judo for judo, each is optimized by louring the opponent into that realm where they are not comfortable. Those that wish to dominate across the art train in all viable arts.... each has its benefit for where it is required... accept that the ring has rules and the street does not.. self defense is not a gentlemans game.... A level of etiquette is desired in the ring....this can not be said for a life or death scenario. Argue amongst yourselves all you want.... they are two different animals.....

Well, good luck to you if you come here with an arguement like that!

Many of us have tried ... many of us have failed to convince our MMA cousins that TMAs have any value at all. So why will your arguement fail also? Well, for starters, it is logical and makes sense. I mean, if I was to argue with you about anything you wrote it might be your use of punctuation. Why would you use four dots when three will do?

Apart from that I agree with you.

 

[Steve]

We keep trying to explain why you're wrong, kman, but you're too atubborn to listen to people who know better.

 

[senseidave2005]

Well, good luck to you if you come here with an arguement like that!

Many of us have tried ... many of us have failed to convince our MMA cousins that TMAs have any value at all. So why will your arguement fail also? Well, for starters, it is logical and makes sense. I mean, if I was to argue with you about anything you wrote it might be your use of punctuation. Why would you use four dots when three will do?

Apart from that I agree with you.

I do love my dramatic pause dots....lol...

 

[K-man]

We keep trying to explain why you're wrong, kman, but you're too atubborn to listen to people who know better.

Thanks mate but you know what they say about people who are too old to change.

I think I've lost too many neurons face palming and hitting my head against the makiwara to even contemplate that I may be wrong. As a result I feel I must continue my quixotic dream of using logic and example to convince people that martial arts, other than MMA, still have a place and have some value, however small that value is perceived by others.

 

[drop bear]

So it seems the discussion, goes around and around, getting no where in particular.....if you ask yourselves a base question..."What are the key differences between the MMA fighter and how they prepare themselves for combat..and the way a TMA practitioner prepares for his or her confrontation...?" I might suggest the level of athleticism of the two people differs as one is prepring to fight for a set number of minutes and a set number of rounds, therefore a certain physical prowess is strived for so that one can achieve he task should knock out or submission not be achieved. I respect this physicality and athleticism, for im not that fit. There are few if any TMA practitioners, that would, in my opinion want a confrontation to go , in my opinion, longer than 15-30 seconds, the mental approach is different. I dont want to confuse issues, but if I read right it has been established, that boxers train for boxing, kickboxers for kickboxing, Judo for judo, each is optimized by louring the opponent into that realm where they are not comfortable. Those that wish to dominate across the art train in all viable arts.... each has its benefit for where it is required... accept that the ring has rules and the street does not.. self defense is not a gentlemans game.... A level of etiquette is desired in the ring....this can not be said for a life or death scenario. Argue amongst yourselves all you want.... they are two different animals.....

Why is it advantageous to be less fit in what could be a life or death fight? I mean at least in a competition you will get saved if it looks like you are about to get killed.

How do you train this loss of etiquette? Are you concerned that you will create people with serious emotional problems?

 

[senseidave2005]

The etiquette is with in us, the expectation of etiquette from an agressor is a fantasy. Twist it whatever way you want.
I stated I'm not as fit as a competition trained fighter..My tools work. Enough said.

 

[Steve]

Thanks mate but you know what they say about people who are too old to change.

I think I've lost too many neurons face palming and hitting my head against the makiwara to even contemplate that I may be wrong. As a result I feel I must continue my quixotic dream of using logic and example to convince people that martial arts, other than MMA, still have a place and have some value, however small that value is perceived by others.

. The point is, everyone has a different perspective. It's not as cut and dry as you being right and other people are wrong. One can disagree with you and also be reasonable.

 

[drop bear]

The etiquette is with in us, the expectation of etiquette from an agressor is a fantasy. Twist it whatever way you want.
I stated I'm not as fit as a competition trained fighter..My tools work. Enough said.

Why would I expect etiquette from an aggressor?

I am confused about the fitness. Is lack of fitness a self defence thing? Why would that be the case?

 

[drop bear]

. The point is, everyone has a different perspective. It's not as cut and dry as you being right and other people are wrong. One can disagree with you and also be reasonable.

It is the assumptions that confuse me.

 

[senseidave2005]

Why would I expect etiquette from an aggressor?

I am confused about the fitness. Is lack of fitness a self defence thing? Why would that be the case?

I think you should re-read my previous comments before you make any more comments...as your obviously reading what you want to rather than what's there....


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[drop bear]

I think you should re-read my previous comments before you make any more comments...as your obviously reading what you want to rather than what's there....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Sorry what point have I missed here?

 

[K-man]

. The point is, everyone has a different perspective. It's not as cut and dry as you being right and other people are wrong. One can disagree with you and also be reasonable.

And I have never felt otherwise. It is only the unreasonable ones I have a problem with.

 

[senseidave2005]

And I have never felt otherwise. It is only the unreasonable ones I have a problem with.

I can't imagine who that or those people could be![emoji23]
I've removed myself from the forums for several years and only comment now because of the ease of technology, its now easier to read the ramblings of closed minded practitioners of all kinds of hienz 57 arts...so why not put in an educated word or two.

 

[Steve]

Beware. It's a fine line between educated and close minded. Often the two go hand in hand.

 

[Laplace_demon]

And by the way there is a very good reason why I may loose a knife fight to a knife guy or a kicking match to a tkder..

You would actually be able to finish off a knife attacker if you mastered TMA and TKD to the highest level. But then again, few people do.

 

[Jenna]

MMA vs TMA???

To me the main difference between TMA and MMA is simply that this is 2015..

Come back in 50yrs then MMA will be subsumed under TMA and the argument will be not MMA vs TMA and but instead it will be "Which is best for my 'street work', ulnar-implanted bio-tazers or grafted retractable adamantium metatarsal blades?"

Hmm.. now that has got my attention. I think I will start having that debate with my self.. Jx