MMA vs TMA

[Kframe]

Chris Parker you said. "Hi Kframe, considering your recent change in your martial system, perhaps I can help here as well.

The majority of what you do will be "scripted". However, it should be understood that that approach has been the norm (and continues to be the norm) for anyone wanting to deal with actual violence, not sparring. Why? Because it's much easier to teach methods of movement, tactics, principles, and so on that way. You learn to do things the way that the tried and tested system has learnt is the best. The problem is when people stop at the "do this slow so you can remember the whole sequence" level... that's the absolute beginning, and is actually something you do before you begin actually training the art. When these "scripted" actions (Japanese kata... paired) are done properly, it should be at an speed, power, intensity, and range/distance of an actual fight... and it should be done at a level where you can't "remember" what the next step is... you simply do it instinctively. That's the real aim of kata training here. And, when you get it wrong, you get hit. Hard. Properly. For real."

Thank you for the videos you posted. That was awesome watching that first kata video. They were really moving there, I was kinda shocked by the level of speed they were using. I was hoping you could give me the time stamp in the second video that the guy gets hit. I watched it and they were moving so quickly I missed it.

Honestly if more people did kata like that, with that kind of speed and intent, more people would respect TMA. To many tma treat kata like a glorified dance.

 

[Hanzou]

Please. I said it wasn't necessary to spar to be able to knock someone out, nothing at all about saying a boxer couldn't do it. Try harder.

So why is it that we don't question a boxers ability to knock someone out, despite them training in a sport? Could it be that we fully recognize that despite the fact that they're training in a sport, they've developed skills and attributes that can be utilized outside a sport environment?

You've been told a lot in this thread, and ignored all of it. But, to placate you, we were training group defence, I hit the guy in front, his head knocked back into the guy behind him and to his left, right on the jaw, and knocked the second guy out. Could I do that deliberately on command? Doubt it. A week or so later, we were doing a different defence, and a solid elbow to the side of the jaw knocked out another guy. Did I mean to? No. In fact, it was just because he asked if that was really the best target to choose... I aimed to rattle him a bit, nothing more. If you want to call that BS, but not actually come up with any answers as to your own experiences, go for it.

I don't find that unbelievable at all. You could very well be a naturally big mofo who can knock people out without any training whatsoever. However, its important to note that just because you have the power to knock someone out without much effort, doesn't mean that the smaller guy next to you can do the same thing. That's why pressure testing what you've learned outside of drills and kata (i.e. sparring) is important.

For example, in Bjj we have a few female practitioners, and they all have to roll. Why? Because line drilling and demonstrations arent sufficient enough for the application of the technique. You simply cannot simulate a person several times your body weight trying to control you on the ground, in the seated position, or standing up. Further, drilling has a predetermined stopping point, rolling does not. Rolling doesn't end until someone submits. If a 120lb woman can submit a 250lb guy she's better off than a woman who wins numerous kata/form competitions.

Wouldn't you agree?

Oh, and no, in my schools we don't spar. Nothing to do with being "too deadly" (as that is patently absurd), it's because sparring (competitive forms) teaches a whole range of dangerous, bad habits that go directly against what we teach. To spar would be to undo the benefits of what we train, and how we train. We do, however, engage in scenario training, resistance training, free-form drills, and so on... but we don't spar.

Well with all due respect, I think that's a bit silly. However, you guys are free to train any way you deem necessary towards accomplishing your goals.

 

[Hanzou]

All the above can be accomplished with the Makiwara for striking power, partner drills for timing, realistic drills with no nonsense partners.
It's never how hard one can hit but where the hit goes that counts anyway. (Eyes, neck and knee) from someone that trains for those hits daily.

No it can't. No stationary object or compliant training partner in a drill can rival you squaring up with someone who has the goal of beating you in mind. It's unpredictable, fast paced, and is invaluable. The idea that there are martial art schools that don't practice sparring blows my mind.

A well trained boxer is a devastating weapon, but, up against a TMA that is likewise well trained in bare knuckle strikes and low kicks, would make for an interesting situation indeed.
Commercialized TMA dojo that train the masses are providing a much needed service to people that want and are willing to put the time in. But, as with hardcore boxing clubs, there are as many small TMA clubs that train in cellars and garages as close to the old ways as possible.

What makes a trained boxer a devastating weapon? They have about 5 hand techniques, some footwork, and a high stance. Could it be the ridiculous amount of time they spend applying their abilities in a ring?

Many years ago, people believed that TMA stylists could rival boxers and wrestlers. That was until TMA artists stepped forward and got constantly whooped upon by boxers and wrestlers, and later kickboxers, Judo/Bjj stylists, and MMA exponents.

Now no one believes that anymore.

 

[K-man]

Ah, you never said that your school never spars. Thank you for that information. Now it all makes perfect sense, and it explains why we have so much footage of Goju Karatekas fighting like kick boxers.

See below for you inconsistency! I'm not sure what the fact that my school and all the traditional Okinawan schools don't fight like kick boxers has to do with so muck footage of Japanese Goju karateka fighting in the traditional stance of moto dachi which is fighting stance after all.

There are thousands of videos of people doing stuff on you tube. Things like ballet or line dancing. Strangely we don't practise those activities either. But the analogy is as appropriate as your videos of sport sparring. It is not part of our training.

If you're not sparring, how do you know what you are learning actually works? Doing line drills and kata isn't an effective method of testing your techniques. Even mid-speed sparring is better than NO sparring at all.

In your uninformed opinion we should be doing the type of sparring that you have labeled ineffective and a waste of time! That makes complete sense (not) and is probably among the most stupid remarks you have made so far!

You don't need to shatter your partner's jaw. In boxing for example, you can knock your training partner out, knock them down repeatedly, or otherwise dominate them in the ring. In Bjj, if I choke out my partner, force them to tap from an armbar, wristlock, or leglock, or I pin them to the mat so that they can't get up, that shows superiority against a non compliant opponent.

Beautiful! In boxing for example they use gloves so that they don't break there partner's jaw. We don't wear gloves so we don't strike the jaw at all. Why is that? Well boxing is a sport. If the loser goes to hospital after every session it won't have many adherents in very short time.

And in my training I choke out my partner, force them to tap from an arm bar, wrist lock or leg lock. Oh, and they are non compliant too. So why is your training the best and mine a waste of time? I don't want to be on the ground, you do. My choice is to destroy my attacker and keep my feet. You want to roll round on the ground with your playmate, your choice.

The advantages of sparring versus non-sparring are innumerable. My school has entire sessions devoted to just rolling (sparring) everyday. I couldn't imagine not having that testing ground available to me to test what I've learned against bigger, faster, or smarter opponents.

Ah! Now the definition of sparring includes rolling! Now that is totally different. The videos of Taira and all the others are doing our style of 'rolling'. In that case we spar in aikido every session and 90% of my karate training is spent sparring. Why did you waste 30 pages of this thread posts video of sport karate when sparring means hands on? All our bunkai is sparring by this new definition. Totally different context. So if my form of hands on combat practice is in effect sparring, why do I need to do the type of sparring you put up to prove karate is ineffective?

Heck, you do Judo. Could you imagine Judo without sparring? Without getting slammed to the mat at full power, or the feeling you get when you pull off a perfect throw against an opponent trying to throw you or take you down? I couldn't even imagine.

If grappling is now sparring. No I could not imagine judo without sparring and I can't imagine traditional Goju karate without sparring either, the new definition of course.

The are no traditional Goju practitioners fighting like kick boxers. You actually did post one of the traditional Goju men sparring but it was Awasse kumite and basically they didn't actually touch each other. You have posted lots of videos but none of any competition including traditional practitioners. Why do you think that is?

But the crux of the matter is you have now shifted the goal posts. By your new definition of sparring, all martial art schools spar. It just depends what their form of sparring entails.

 

[K-man]

Thats not the definition of full contact. This is;

A (full) contact sport is any sport for which significant physical impact force on players, either deliberate or incidental, is allowed for within the rules of the game.Contact actions include tackling, blocking and a whole range of other moves that can differ substantially in their rules and degree of application.


Examples of contact sports are Australian rules football, lacrosse, rugby league, Rugby Union, Roller Derby, American football, water polo, wrestling, sumo, team handball, slamball and ice hockey. Full-contact martial arts include boxing, mixed martial arts, jujutsu, Muay Thai, judo, and various forms of full contact karate. Also, kickboxing, in the early 1970s in the United States, was born and introduced a controlled version of full contact to martial arts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full-contact#Full-contact

This is not the definition of 'full contact'. It is the definition of 'full contact SPORT'!

Full contact is what happens with HTH on the battlefield. Full contact fighting can easily result in serious injury or death. My training is designed for full contact. Your training is designed for sport. That is a huge difference. If I have to use my skills there is a fair chance my attacker will be badly injured.

Me thinks you be an armchair warrior!

 

[K-man]

So you think a boxer couldn't knock someone out on the street? I would argue that a boxer has a higher chance of knocking someone out than someone doing Asian martial arts.

I'll back the Asian guy! On the street the boxer won't have time to put on his gloves.
Have you seen the callouses on the Okinawan guys hands from makiwara training?

The only things I refuse to listen to is outright nonsense. If you tell me that you can knock out people without ever actually hit anyone, that's nonsense. If you tell me that you tossed a guy across the room with one hand, that's nonsense. If you tell me that you practice some secret Okinawan karate style that is so deadly that your dojo doesn't spar, that's nonsense too.

That's a bit rich coming from you. You have been writing nonsense from page 10 of this thread. The difference is that when most people write nonsense they know it is nonsense. When you write nonsense you seem to believe it is real. I would call it delusional!

No one on this forum has ever claimed they can knock someone out without hitting them. No one on this forum has claimed they can throw someone across the room with one hand. No one has claimed to practise some secret Okinawan karate. So why do you post this nonsense in this thread. I have my suspicion. You have no idea about any of this stuff because you have never done anything. I'll call you an armchair warrior again. Your ignorance stems from inexperience.

You can tell me anything about yourself, and I'll take it at face value, and we can discuss. However, if you're trying to peddle some BS and push it as fact, I gotta call you on it.

Did you really say that? Wow! I gotta call you on it too. You are full of BS!

Remember, I'm just a guy who does Bjj, been in a few scraps, and fought some TMA guys, and wasn't impressed.

No! Remember you are the guy who has never seen TMA and from your posts I'm not sure you've ever done BJJ either.

LoL! I get kata, and I'm sure there's some benefit to doing it.

No! You posts have adequately demonstrated you have absolutely no idea of kata. You have said it is useless on many occasions.

However, in my experience, a great kata doesn't translate into great fighting skills.
l
You have no experience so how would you know?

As far as I can tell, Kata is largely used for belt purposes. In other words, you do kata A and kata B perfectly during your belt test, and you get your next belt.

Kniwing kata is a requirement for grading. Demonstrating how to apply the kata is also a requirement.

You are trolling. You peddle the same rubbish post after post and are called on it post after post. Perhaps if you went to a reputable school somewhere and did some real training you might pick up a little knowledge that you could apply to your posts.

 

[K-man]

No it can't. No stationary object or compliant training partner in a drill can rival you squaring up with someone who has the goal of beating you in mind. It's unpredictable, fast paced, and is invaluable. The idea that there are martial art schools that don't practice sparring blows my mind.

As we have established. The contact drills are by your definition sparring so the fact that your mind is blown is more to do with your ignorance of other training methodologies than anything else.

What makes a trained boxer a devastating weapon? They have about 5 hand techniques, some footwork, and a high stance. Could it be the ridiculous amount of time they spend applying their abilities in a ring?

What makes a TMA trained karateka a devastating weapon. He has a number of hand techniques, some footwork and the ability to apply strangles, chokes, locks, holds and takedowns. Could that be because of the ridiculous amount of time we spend training RBSD?
.
Many years ago, people believed that TMA stylists could rival boxers and wrestlers. That was until TMA artists stepped forward and got constantly whooped upon by boxers and wrestlers, and later kickboxers, Judo/Bjj stylists, and MMA exponents.

This is patently false. Initially different practitioners had varying results against other styles. MMA by its very name developed basically by cross training to counter the skills of the different practitioners.

Now no one believes that anymore.

Sorry what you mean is, no one believes you any more. You twist too many facts.

 

[Hanzou]

See below for you inconsistency! I'm not sure what the fact that my school and all the traditional Okinawan schools don't fight like kick boxers has to do with so muck footage of Japanese Goju karateka fighting in the traditional stance of moto dachi which is fighting stance after all.

According to you they don't fight at all. According to your posts, you guys just do a form of hard dancing that could possibly be attributed to fighting.

There are thousands of videos of people doing stuff on you tube. Things like ballet or line dancing. Strangely we don't practise those activities either. But the analogy is as appropriate as your videos of sport sparring. It is not part of our training.

Okay, but when I type in Goju-Ryu sparring, or Goju-Ryu Kumite, I expect two Goju-Ryu stylists doing exactly that. When I see multiple Goju-Ryu schools doing essentially the same thing, I assume that this is what Goju-Ryu is about. You're the only one saying that Goju-Ryu as shown to the public isn't Goju-Ryu. It reminds me of when a TMA gets flattened, people start saying "well that's not real TMA, real TMA is out there somewhere". I just want to see Goju-Ryu sparring. Not a demonstration of some guy doing hand techniques to a guy standing still, but two people fighting each other, and one (or both) using Goju karate.

In your uninformed opinion we should be doing the type of sparring that you have labeled ineffective and a waste of time! That makes complete sense (not) and is probably among the most stupid remarks you have made so far!

My argument has always been that if the end result is fighting like a kickboxer, then just take kickboxing. Kickboxers actually look cleaner than that without all the additional kata and drill training.

The are no traditional Goju practitioners fighting like kick boxers. You actually did post one of the traditional Goju men sparring but it was Awasse kumite and basically they didn't actually touch each other. You have posted lots of videos but none of any competition including traditional practitioners. Why do you think that is?

I'd just like to point out that the Awasse Kumite looked more like kickboxing than it did those demonstration videos you showed.

But the crux of the matter is you have now shifted the goal posts. By your new definition of sparring, all martial art schools spar. It just depends what their form of sparring entails.

Um no. Sparring is free form fighting. Free form isn't pre-arranged drills or kata.

Beautiful! In boxing for example they use gloves so that they don't break there partner's jaw. We don't wear gloves so we don't strike the jaw at all. Why is that? Well boxing is a sport. If the loser goes to hospital after every session it won't have many adherents in very short time.

And of course in the process, the boxer learns how to punch, and the person on the receiving end learns how to take a punch. No benefit to be found in that at all...

And in my training I choke out my partner, force them to tap from an arm bar, wrist lock or leg lock. Oh, and they are non compliant too. So why is your training the best and mine a waste of time? I don't want to be on the ground, you do. My choice is to destroy my attacker and keep my feet. You want to roll round on the ground with your playmate, your choice.

Mainly because anyone can see or test out Bjj chokes and armbars and know they are effective. We have no evidence beyond your word that what you're doing is effective.

Ah! Now the definition of sparring includes rolling! Now that is totally different. The videos of Taira and all the others are doing our style of 'rolling'. In that case we spar in aikido every session and 90% of my karate training is spent sparring. Why did you waste 30 pages of this thread posts video of sport karate when sparring means hands on? All our bunkai is sparring by this new definition. Totally different context. So if my form of hands on combat practice is in effect sparring, why do I need to do the type of sparring you put up to prove karate is ineffective?

No, Taira is doing a pre-arranged form against a person standing in front of him. Rolling is two Bjj stylists trying to submit each other, and using everything in their tool box to do so. I.e. Sparring. I hope you realize that the two are not even close to being the same thing.

 

[Kframe]

I needed a laugh today, thanks hanzou for providing it.

 

[Hanzou]

This is not the definition of 'full contact'. It is the definition of 'full contact SPORT'!

Full contact is what happens with HTH on the battlefield. Full contact fighting can easily result in serious injury or death. My training is designed for full contact. Your training is designed for sport. That is a huge difference. If I have to use my skills there is a fair chance my attacker will be badly injured.

So you're saying that no one has gotten seriously injured or even died in full contact sports?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/794374-10-unfortunate-deaths-in-the-ring-within-the-last-10-years

That's just boxing, and that's just in the last 10 years.

Like I said before, the debate between fighting sports and fighting arts was settled a long time ago. Fighting arts lost badly because the fighting athletes were better trained, better conditioned, and were better able to utilize their techniques. Let's be honest; If someone can stomp you inside a gym, they could more than likely stomp you outside the gym as well.

Anyone think they could beat down a professional boxer or MMA fighter outside the ring just because they can do some dirty fighting? The very notion is ridiculous. That guy will beat the tar out of you inside the ring AND outside the ring.

 

[Hanzou]

I needed a laugh today, thanks hanzou for providing it.

Make sure you return the favor by posting pics/vids of your Ninjutsu training.

 

[Kframe]

Make sure you return the favor by posting pics/vids of your Ninjutsu training.

Not doing Ninjutsu, im doing Budo taijutsu. 1/10 poor attempt, getting old.

I have more then enough experience with people trying to hit me.. I actually want to train a art with substance to it..

Ill say this though, if I could afford it, I would do GJJ and BBT, the combination of the two would be awesome.

 

[Kframe]

Oh and you still seam to be under the impression many TMA don't cross train. Case in point. If I actually wanted to do TKD I would go to the one KKW place in town. WHY? Well because he like many other quality TMA Instructors cross trains. Black belt in judo(covering ground skills and throwing quite nicely) and 5th dan in KKW. Not to mention that he trains traditionally. He is a example of many of this forum and others in the industry. Not the mcdojo you keep finding.

Honestly what do you stand to gain continuing this? I just don't see your endgame..

 

[Hanzou]

Not doing Ninjutsu, im doing Budo taijutsu. 1/10 poor attempt, getting old.

I have more then enough experience with people trying to hit me.. I actually want to train a art with substance to it..

Ill say this though, if I could afford it, I would do GJJ and BBT, the combination of the two would be awesome.

Relax, I was just messing with you. I'm glad that you found an art that fit your needs. I think everyone needs to find an art that fits their individual goals.

You ARE learning Ninjutsu though. :lol: I do like their black uniforms. They're pretty snazzy, and great for winter practice.

Oh and you still seam to be under the impression many TMA don't cross train. Case in point. If I actually wanted to do TKD I would go to the one KKW place in town. WHY? Well because he like many other quality TMA Instructors cross trains. Black belt in judo(covering ground skills and throwing quite nicely) and 5th dan in KKW. Not to mention that he trains traditionally. He is a example of many of this forum and others in the industry. Not the mcdojo you keep finding.

I wouldn't consider Judo or TKD to be traditional martial arts. Both tend to be very competition oriented.

Honestly what do you stand to gain continuing this? I just don't see your endgame..

Just having a discussion, that's it and that's all.

 

[K-man]

According to you they don't fight at all. According to your posts, you guys just do a form of hard dancing that could possibly be attributed to fighting.

What are you talking about? No. According to your posts of tappy, tappy, tappy ... kicky, kicky, kicky like kick boxers, we don't do that. If you want to call what we do hard dancing, I'll accept that. So what do you reckon MMA guys do when they are grappling? Same hard dancing!

Okay, but when I type in Goju-Ryu sparring, or Goju-Ryu Kumite, I expect two Goju-Ryu stylists doing exactly that. When I see multiple Goju-Ryu schools doing essentially the same thing, I assume that this is what Goju-Ryu is about. You're the only one saying that Goju-Ryu as shown to the public isn't Goju-Ryu. It reminds me of when a TMA gets flattened, people start saying "well that's not real TMA, real TMA is out there somewhere". I just want to see Goju-Ryu sparring. Not a demonstration of some guy doing hand techniques to a guy standing still, but two people fighting each other, and one (or both) using Goju karate.
​Wrong again. Did you ever learn comprehension at school. Never mind that was rhetorical! Goju Ryu started in Okinawa and Gogen Yamaguchi established Goju Kai in Japan and developed one of the largest karate organisations in the world. That is what you keep posting. It is the style I trained for years before switching to the traditional Okinawan style in more recent times. Now your ignorance compounds as you just cannot understand. There are thousands of Videos of Japanese Goju Ryu fighters on YouTube. They are doing Goju Ryu sparring and they are competing. Whether they are effective or not is purely speculative but personally I wouldn't want to be hit by any of them. You will find video of Okinawan Goju Ryu people practising and if you want to call that sparring, fine. You just won't find them doing what you are demanding to see! If you are that determined to see Okinawan Goju, get up off you fat **** and go to an Okinawan Goju school.

My argument has always been that if the end result is fighting like a kickboxer, then just take kickboxing. Kickboxers actually look cleaner than that without all the additional kata and drill training.

And I would say, if you want to compete in Karate tournaments then take on a sport based karate style. If you want to be a world class swimmer don't go to an MMA class, get a swimming coach. Same logic most people not doing MMA have no desire to fight anyway.

I'd just like to point out that the Awasse Kumite looked more like kickboxing than it did those demonstration videos you showed.

Oh really. Just shows how little attention to detail you have!

Um no. Sparring is free form fighting. Free form isn't pre-arranged drills or kata.

Um yes! As I've said time and time again, that's what we do most of the time. You just refuse to accept the fact that there is a lot of training you can't comprehend but if you don't have intelligence to begin with it's not something you can learn.

And of course in the process, the boxer learns how to punch, and the person on the receiving end learns how to take a punch. No benefit to be found in that at all...

Even at close range you can punch. Every one of our 'hard dancing' sessions involves hitting and getting hit.

Mainly because anyone can see or test out Bjj chokes and armbars and know they are effective. We have no evidence beyond your word that what you're doing is effective.

Lol! I'll back my word against yours on this forum any day! You can train with me anytime you like.

A (full) contact sport is any sport for which significant physical impact force on players, either deliberate or incidental, is allowed for within the rules of the game.Contact actions include tackling, blocking and a whole range of other moves that can differ substantially in their rules and degree of application.

Exactly. But we don't play by rules.


Examples of contact sports are Australian rules football, lacrosse, rugby league, Rugby Union, Roller Derby, American football, water polo, wrestling, sumo, team handball, slamball and ice hockey. Full-contact martial arts include boxing, mixed martial arts, jujutsu, Muay Thai, judo, and various forms of full contact karate. Also, kickboxing, in the early 1970s in the United States, was born and introduced a controlled version of full contact to martial arts.

These are all sports. My martial art is not sport and I don't treat it as Sport.


No, Taira is doing a pre-arranged form against a person standing in front of him. Rolling is two Bjj stylists trying to submit each other, and using everything in their tool box to do so. I.e. Sparring. I hope you realize that the two are not even close to being the same thing.

And every bit of Judo, or jujutsu or BJJ demonstrating technique is the same. Your stupid fixation on what is kata stops you from understanding how the kata is flexible and how it is applied in a non compliant situation. There are an infinite no of tools in a kata toolkit.

'Hard Dancing' is exactly the same as what you train in BJJ just ours involves more striking. Just because I don't call that 'sparring' is incidental.

So you're saying that no one has gotten seriously injured or even died in full contact sports?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/794374-10-unfortunate-deaths-in-the-ring-within-the-last-10-years

That's just boxing, and that's just in the last 10 years.

Oh really! Just when did I say that?

Like I said before, the debate between fighting sports and fighting arts was settled a long time ago. Fighting arts lost badly because the fighting athletes were better trained, better conditioned, and were better able to utilize their techniques. Let's be honest; If someone can stomp you inside a gym, they could more than likely stomp you outside the gym as well.

In your own arrogant mind.

Anyone think they could beat down a professional boxer or MMA fighter outside the ring just because they can do some dirty fighting? The very notion is ridiculous.

Yep! Totally ridiculous! If you say so.

That guy will beat the tar out of you inside the ring AND outside the ring.

I'd love to see you try to prove this ridiculous statement of opinion!

You must be getting disparate. Your posts are becoming even more stupid and I wouldn't have thought that possible!
:trollsign:

 

[Hanzou]

What are you talking about? No. According to your posts of tappy, tappy, tappy ... kicky, kicky, kicky like kick boxers, we don't do that. If you want to call what we do hard dancing, I'll accept that. So what do you reckon MMA guys do when they are grappling? Same hard dancing!

Again, there's a difference between free form fighting (sparring) and pre-arranged drilling of techniques (Kata and Drills). Surely you know the difference.

In the end, needless amounts of kata and drilling tend to develop sub par martial arts. I've seen the results over and over again.

Here's what happens; This is reportedly a Traditional Mantis Kung Fu school;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsArkm55b_0&feature=youtu.be

And here is an MMA school;

Unfortunately, no one can produce a traditional martial art sparring video that can show anything other than the slop-fests that we currently have on the net.

 

[Dirty Dog]

OK... here. Andy Hug. A kyokushin and Seidokaikan practitioner.

Bill Wallace. Another TMA practitioner.

A whole slew of K1 fighters...

The world - including the various MMA venues - is full of excellent fighters with a TMA background.

You do realize that, at this point, you're not doing anything but making yourself look a fool, right?

 

[K-man]

You do realize that, at this point, you're not doing anything but making yourself look a fool, right?

Unfortunately Hanzou has a severe disability that prevents comprehension of simple English.

 

[Tames D]

You are trolling. You peddle the same rubbish post after post and are called on it post after post. Perhaps if you went to a reputable school somewhere and did some real training you might pick up a little knowledge that you could apply to your posts.

Good observation. Why do you think this train wreck has gone on so long? It's because you and the others are feeding him. You're playing into his game. That's what he wants and is getting. He's playing everyone beautifully, and getting lots of attention. I'm surprised the Mods haven't shut it down by now. But I'm ok with it, very intertaining reading

 

[Hanzou]

The world - including the various MMA venues - is full of excellent fighters with a TMA background.

I guess you weren't paying attention. Those guys you posted are all professional kick boxers. I'm asking for evidence of someone using traditional MA that doesn't resemble kickboxing while fighting.

Your post reinforces my argument, because it appears that the highest form of striking arts is kickboxing in every case.