michaeledward said:
1. Perhaps you hear Mr. O'Neill's description of the president; 'A blind man in a roomful of deaf people.' If that is how one perceives the current state of power in the United States, how do you suggest they; 'raise awareness/educate/counter'? When our President refuses to listen to scientists who state that Homo Sapiens are having an impact on Global Climate Change, what are we to do?
2. I have stated over and over again, that it is the Bush Administration and Bush Policies that I have a problem with. I don't care if he sucks or not. And I don't make the claim that he does ... and I don't see many arguing against him who make that statement. But I see some on the other side of the isle make those statements about protestors, liberals, and me.
3. You ask "What happens when one of these civil disturbers/protesters gets hurt? Who is at fault?". I ask, 'What happens when one of our military soldiers gets hurt or killed in Iraq? Who is at fault'. We were told that the Iraqi government had the weapons and were an imminent threat, but when that has proved false, who is held accountable? In this adminstration; No One. Instead the argument changes that 'Saddam Hussein' was a bad man, an evil man, he had to be removed, yet we watch the destruction and ethnic cleansing in Darfur, Sudan with nary lifting a finger; who is held accountable?
In this administration; No One .... (But blame will fall on the prior administration for Rwanda).
4. And if America is supposed to be One Nation with Liberty and Justice for All, how is that we prevent gay americans from sharing the same liberty and justice as their straight brothers and sisters? While the United States Supreme Court recently over-ruled 13 states' sodomy laws, gay partners still are not entitled to the same social justice provided by a marriage contract. Are you out fighting for their rights? And who is it that is trying to keep the gays in their closets? (Oddly, I find myself in agreement with Vice President Cheney for, perhaps, the first time in my life).
5. Of course we have moved from the 'National Unity of WW II'. That time was quite probably never as unified as you imagine it, and what unity existed was not necissarliy caused solely by the the Axis powers. You will recall that the decade preceeding the United States entry into WWII was known as the Great Depression. People being at work probably went a long way to creating 'unity'. Of course, once we won that war, the government has continued to feed the machine. Money going from the Treasury into the Defense Contractors; Lockheed, Martin, Boeing, Ratheon, McDonald, Douglas. Keep that war machine going ... Never mind there was never an enemy that could match the US Military. Do you remember the claims that Iraq had the 4th largest army in the world, and how they were going to be difficult to defeat in 1991? To this day, I don't understand how anyone could buy that bill of goods. What of our current military ... why do we need to spend more on weapons than the next 10 nations combined? Who do we think we are going to be fighting? And isn't it a good thing that Alaska is now protected by a Missile Defense Shield. More money going to worthless defense programs.
6. Anyhow ... there are lots of reason why we must protest against something. But not every protestor hates America, or even hates Bush. What I want, is the promise of my country; a place where all men are created equal, and we have equal opportunity to succeed. And when I see impedements to myself, or my fellow citizens, it is appropriate to raise voice or sign in protest.
1. Talk to two research specialists on any of the global impact topics and you will get two different answers all backed by verifiable, well structured scientific arguments. The general divide is between the human impact theories and the Planetary life cycle theories... who are you suppose to believe when one says that global warming is nothing more than the indication of the last Ice Age ending BUT the other is saying that it is because of human impact/rising CO2 levels and greenhouse affect? In the end, how do you know anyone is or isn't listening. People always talk about politicians saying one thing but doing another....what if that whole cowboy non chalance is really just part of the front and behind close doors there is more going on?
2. I never pointed at you with these ideas, only used your post as a springboard to make my point. If people, regardless of political/group affiliations are too busy labelling and fighting over that instead of recognizing that there is a common goal that can be reached then they are not part of the solution.
3. There is a big difference between False and Unconfirmed/Unverified. The intelligence was thinner than people like, but that does not mean that it was wrong. Don't forget the 10-11 years that SHussein had to move, sell and hide any WMD that were there. My point has always been that the timing and public rhetoric was off, but we were ultimately justified since we had a CONTRACTUAL treaty with SHussein that he was in clear violation of and posed a potential threat if left unchecked (though not as pressing a threat IMO as was presented to the general public). THe counter question/non answer doesn't really do anything but say "Yeah, but he did it too..." so both 'sides' are wrong if accountability and responsibility are not part of the demonstrative character. BUT, I do believe that the 9/11 commision findings were basically spreading the blame across the full spectrum of political levels and departments/bureaus, so who isn't taking their bite of the Sheit sandwich?
4. The Constitution is a living document and is reinterpretted with every issue. Before it was Women's vote, Slavery and other socio-economic issues, they aren't going to go away. But, college level pranks that are passed off as civil disobedience are not going to do anything but make the involved parties look like idiots NOT really improve their credibility. There is a big difference between the licensed, peaceful banner wavers and folks planning to break the law in ways that will only piss off the folks who have to deal with the time delays, legal red tape and clean the mess up after the fact.
5. Yeah and before, during and after WWI we had huge problems with Socialist parties, unionization... creating tons of conflicts because of the corporate fat cats who were not being regulated or 'encouraged' by gov. incentives to do the right thing by their employees (safe work environment, wages, benefits, job security...) The Depression was the consequence of an unregulated, unchecked private market/banking industry. I did acknowledge that things were not roses and tea time during WWII. We did have our own problems with domestic Nazi parties and such as well. I am sure that the isolationists were singing their songs and the civil liberty types were complaining about rationing and the invasiveness of war time government priorities. I am part Japanese (Okinawan) and know well the Internment camp issues... things were not perfect.
6. I am speaking out against this idea that panty raid tactics, disorderly conduct, trespassing, vandalism levels of legal violations (which can instigate/inspire people to more sever acts...like sniping abortion doctors, bombing clinics, bombing government buildings ie Oklahoma City) are in any way as noble or rightous as boycotting (Which is not illegal) segregation practices in gov/business or Peaceful marches where the protest is not antagonistic or hostile (sit in idea). I don't care who does these things, the tactics are essentially political and emotional terrorism that hold a politician/nations reputation and mental peace hostage until the 'protest group/special interest group" gets its way... and don't win any sympathy for the cause or respect for the group from me.
Change the specifics and the range of damage and it is the same as any pestering tactic that hopes to force people to do what ever it takes to get left alone. That doesn't make the issue noble, it doesn't make the 'winning' a 'good fight', and it doesn't mean that the politician changed his mind set to your way of thinking...it just means that you got what you wanted because the guy/girl just wanted you to shut up.
Sorry for the length.
Hang in there!
