Recipe: Racist Pudding

[CoryKS]

Look, all this discussion about physical characteristics is irrelevant to the cartoon. The cartoonist wasn't trying to make the point that the authors of the "Stimulus" plan look like apes. That would be the equivalent of calling someone a big doody-head, and doesn't exactly make for cutting political commentary. What he was saying is that the authors of the "Stimulus" plan, of whatever race they may be, collectively have the intellectual capacity of a chimp on Xanax. I agree, though I would give the advantage to the chimp.

 

[elder999]

Look, all this discussion about physical characteristics is irrelevant to the cartoon. The cartoonist wasn't trying to make the point that the authors of the "Stimulus" plan look like apes. That would be the equivalent of calling someone a big doody-head, and doesn't exactly make for cutting political commentary. What he was saying is that the authors of the "Stimulus" plan, of whatever race they may be, collectively have the intellectual capacity of a chimp on Xanax. I agree, though I would give the advantage to the chimp.

While I can certainly accept your conjecture about the cartoonist's intentions as one possibility, and maybe even a likelihood, it doesn't exclude the other. The discussion isn't about "physical characteristics" at all, although your thinking it to be so might just be telling. The discussion is about more than a century of stereotyped images and association of blacks with apes in the American consciousness.

 

[CoryKS]

The discussion isn't about "physical characteristics" at all, although your thinking it to be so might just be telling.

Nice try. Well, no - actually rather inept.

The discussion is about more than a century of stereotyped images and association of blacks with apes in the American consciousness.

The discussion is also about whether that association is applicable to the cartoon. My position is that it is not. YMMV.

 

[elder999]

Nice try. Well, no - actually rather inept. .

I'm not trying anything, Cory-you were the first one to use the words "physical characteristics" in this thread-why not explain what you meant by "all this discussion about physical characteristics," since there hasn't been any.???

 

[CoryKS]

I'm not trying anything, Cory-you were the first one to use the words "physical characteristics" in this thread-why not explain what you meant by "all this discussion about physical characteristics," since there hasn't been any.???

I suppose this is the part where I'm supposed to drop out of the argument and drop a few "uh, uh, I'm not racist, what I meant was --" posts. *yawn*

Go back upthread and look at the pictures, some of which you posted yourself. Specifically, what is it about the Vogue cover that bothered you? How does it relate to the other poster?

 

[crushing]

I'm not trying anything, Cory-you were the first one to use the words "physical characteristics" in this thread-why not explain what you meant by "all this discussion about physical characteristics," since there hasn't been any.???

Clever! Cory does appear to have been the first one to use those exact words in this thread.

But, before he used the words this link: http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1126535&postcount=22

As we see in the link above and a few of your own posts one doesn't need to use the words "physical characteristics" to actually bring physical characteristics in to the thread.

 

[Carol]

Yet these depictions of black Americans are supposedly acceptable?

 

[elder999]

Yet these depictions of black Americans are supposedly acceptable?

Well, no, they're not.

 

[elder999]

I suppose this is the part where I'm supposed to drop out of the argument and drop a few "uh, uh, I'm not racist, what I meant was --" posts. *yawn*

Nope.it's the part where you explain, and you did.

Go back upthread and look at the pictures, some of which you posted yourself. Specifically, what is it about the Vogue cover that bothered you? How does it relate to the other poster?

Nothing about the Vogue cover bothered me/. Personally, I'm generally immune to such things, though conscious of them-I didn't know about the Vogue cover for quite some time. I even like my Little Rascals and Our Gang with all the racist jokes and sight-gags, rather than edited out.

In any case, it did bother enough people:

1 - 10 of 44,400 for lebron james vogue cover,controversy who did notice it.

Apparently, the photographer, Annie Liebowitz, is known for occasionally duplicating images from history in this way-I don't know about that, or how that photo came to be on the cover-or if it's intentionally racist, if at all. While one can see some similarities between the poses in the photo and the poster, and the attire of the women in each of them, for me, that's where the "physical characteristics" end, and I still don't know what you meant.

 

[Carol]

Whoaaaa.....OK the controversy was completely lost on me. Even with the side-by-side image I didn't pick on the alleged King Kong and Fay Wray reference.

Of course my first reaction was staring at LeBron and thinking mmmmm....muscles....:lol2:

 

[elder999]

Whoaaaa.....OK the controversy was completely lost on me. Even with the side-by-side image I didn't pick on the alleged King Kong and Fay Wray reference.

Of course my first reaction was staring at LeBron and thinking mmmmm....muscles....:lol2:

Yeah, and I was regretting Giselle Bundchen wasn't more......exposed? :lfao:

 

[Phoenix44]

I truly believe that this cartoon was an allusion to the recent chimpanzee attack in Stamford where the chimp was killed by the police, and not intended as a racial slur.

However, last night I was listening to the Sirius-XM program, "Make It Plain," hosted by Mark Thompson, an African-American political talker. His viewpoint, and the viewpoint of most of his callers of all races, was this:

In the past, racist cartoons which were intended to denigrate black people frequently featured monkeys. Therefore, the cartoonist and editors really should have recognized that possible historical reference. So even if the cartoonist harbored no racist intent, someone should have realized it could be hurtful to black people.

 

[Archangel M]

It sometimes seems like people are LOOKING for a racial issue in everything...and if there isnt one they manufacture one.

 

[MA-Caver]

Well at least the Post is sorry... partially.

NY Post apologizes — to some — over Obama cartoon

By KAREN MATTHEWS, Associated Press Writer Karen Matthews, Associated Press Writer – Fri Feb 20, 4:43 am ET
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090220/ap_on_re_us/ny_post_cartoonNEW YORK – After two days of protests, the New York Post apologized Thursday for a cartoon that some have interpreted as comparing President Barack Obama to a violent chimpanzee gunned down by police. But the newspaper also said its longtime antagonists exploited the image for revenge.
The qualified apology didn't mollify at least some of the cartoon's critics, who said they might continue protesting Friday.
The newspaper posted an editorial on its Web site Thursday evening saying the cartoon was meant to mock the federal economic stimulus bill, but "to those who were offended by the image, we apologize."
The piece was posted hours after 200 picketers chanting "Boycott the Post! Shut it down!" marched in front of the paper's office, saying the cartoon echoed racist stereotypes of blacks as monkeys.
The editorial said that "most certainly was not its intent," adding that some media and public figures who have long-standing differences with the paper saw the cartoon "as an opportunity for payback."
Calling them "opportunists," the editorial said: "To them, no apology is due."

Either way the damage is done I think.

 

[elder999]

It sometimes seems like people are LOOKING for a racial issue in everything...and if there isnt one they manufacture one.

Some people (-cough-Sharpton!-cough-) have made a career of LOOKING. Sometimes, though, they don't have to look too hard......

 

[Nolerama]

I think the argument in this post lies in the fact that the OP was trying to make a funny, but went over a line to a point where his humor might be seen as racist by some people.

The OP originally struck me as "holy cow turds Batman, that's racist!" And when viewed by some, it can be seen that way. But it's just a joke gone bad; just like the cartoon. Humor, and the way it affects individuals, is a very broad spectrum. Eliciting a chuckle from someone with Joke A can and will get a Boo from another.

However, there's a matter of taste, and the fact that this forum is a very diverse group of people.

What does the OP have to say in response? It would shed a great deal of light as to the original intentions of the post.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The thought occurs to me that sometimes situations like this tell us a lot more about ourselves than about the situation itself. By listening to the tone, tenor, and observing the shape of the arguments on both sides, we see where we are as a society and perhaps, what we might consider in terms of finding the path.

 

[Archangel M]

Some people (-cough-Sharpton!-cough-) have made a career of LOOKING. Sometimes, though, they don't have to look too hard......

You are right. But I think that sometimes stuff like this is "part and parcel" of the "we are cowards on race" issue. It sends the message that you will be branded/labeled/attacked if you say or do anything that could be seen as racist...intended or not.

Ive seen/heard of confrontations over someone saying something like "These are black days"..."lets call a spade a spade"..etc. And there is the "oh its a BLACK thing!" response. I cant decide if the offended party REALLY thinks the other person is biased or if its just an easy argument winner? Either way...if one side appears ready to take offense at any slip of the tongue and the other side is worried aout how they phrase their opinion...how is there going to be any frank discussion?

 

[Cryozombie]

I think there is a simple solution to all this

Lets ban the words Monkey, Ape and Chimp.

This thread has made the levels of hate very clear to me... so much so in fact that people hated bush enough for 8 years to refer to him as a negative black racial stereotype, inferring hes no better than a black man.

Its sad.

Gee, look how easily one can FIND racism if they wanna. That initial cartoon was in bad taste, but in no way racist like many of the cartoons posted following it trying to "prove" it was. That cartoon said "The Stimulus package was written by a monkey"

Anyone reading anything else into it is doing so intentionally. Especially when you consider Obama neither wrote, nor READ the damn thing, only signed it.

 

[Carol]

You are right. But I think that sometimes stuff like this is "part and parcel" of the "we are cowards on race" issue. It sends the message that you will be branded/labeled/attacked if you say or do anything that could be seen as racist...intended or not.

Ive seen/heard of confrontations over someone saying something like "These are black days"..."lets call a spade a spade"..etc. And there is the "oh its a BLACK thing!" response. I cant decide if the offended party REALLY thinks the other person is biased or if its just an easy argument winner? Either way...if one side appears ready to take offense at any slip of the tongue and the other side is worried aout how they phrase their opinion...how is there going to be any frank discussion?

Perhaps that is part of Mr. Holder's concern. A flipped-out emotional response isn't a frank or reasonable discussion.