Recipe: Racist Pudding

[elder999]

The thought occurs to me that sometimes situations like this tell us a lot more about ourselves than about the situation itself. By listening to the tone, tenor, and observing the shape of the arguments on both sides, we see where we are as a society and perhaps, what we might consider in terms of finding the path.

And that's a fact-who knows what the cartoonist intended, or even if his intent and what he says his intent was are the same thing? In the meantime, it's sparked some interesting conversation-to some it's obviously racist, to some it's obviously not. I'm somewhere in the middle-I can see how it could be (mis)construed to be racist, but I don't get how it's "obviously not," unless you're the cartoonist......

 

[Archangel M]

And that's a fact-who knows what the cartoonist intended, or even if his intent and what he says his intent was are the same thing? In the meantime, it's sparked some interesting conversation-to some it's obviously racist, to some it's obviously not. I'm somewhere in the middle-I can see how it could be (mis)construed to be racist, but I don't get how it's "obviously not," unless you're the cartoonist......

I agree. In this day and age someone should have seen the potential there...which still leaves the question...do we edit out ANY "potentially" offensive material regardless of intent? If so then why the lack of uproar over the cartoons Carol posted? It smacks of a double standard. (not anybody HERE...directed to those who took offense at this comic but ignored the others)

 

[elder999]

I agree. In this day and age someone should have seen the potential there...which still leaves the question...do we edit out ANY "potentially" offensive material regardless of intent?

I don't know.I don't even have a guess.

If so then why the lack of uproar over the cartoons Carol posted?

I don't know, and no one is going to like my guesses: Many black people's opinions of Clarence Thomas and Condoleeza Rice are in line with the sentiments of the cartoons and magazine cover. The magazine's target audience is black people. Some may even feel that way about Colin Powell (it's possible that even Colin Powell felt that way for a time, but that's another story.....)

It's also possible that they didn't see them........the only places I've seen the Condoleeza Rice ones is here on other threads.....

It smacks of a double standard.

The world is full of ugly little double standards around things of this nature-it doesn't just "smackl of a double standard," it simply is a double standard.

 

[Archangel M]

What I think it all boils down to is that we all want to be able to choose what offends us WHEN its most beneficial to us...the rest of the time we will just let it slide. Which is fine (or at least uncontrollable) until we get to the point where public policy and politics are involved in it. If those cartoons were for a black audience I think its just as wrong for one side to be able to play with a stereotype while damning the other side...back to that double standard issue I guess.

I do not go around intentionally offending people. I do my best to be polite, but ill be damned if i will be made to feel embarrassed over a slight I never intended and may in fact have been manufactured by the other party for their benefit.

 

[Carol]

Of course there is the potential there. My observation as a former broadcaster - controversy generally sells better than news does. I have yet to see any wall-to-wall bailout coverage but hell....some drug-happy model loses her life to her own voluntary indulgences and we had wall-to-wall Anna Nicole Smith on every network for a week. :idunno:

The NY Post without a doubt is a for-profit business...but its also the "3rd NYC paper" that has died and resurrected more often than Elvis. The most recent time it was brought back to life, I heard a local business broadcaster ask a NYC media analyst why there are people that keep trying to revive the Post.

Short answer - its not always about profit, its about prestige. Owning a NYC newspaper earns one a spot at the mayor's table. Owning a newspaper in the world's #1 media market earns one access and credibility that money (alone) can't buy.

If a person has what it takes to be a decision maker in the world's A-numbah-one media market that's a person that's way too smart to really think "but...but...but...I dinna know..." is an honest defense.

 

[Carol]

I agree. In this day and age someone should have seen the potential there...which still leaves the question...do we edit out ANY "potentially" offensive material regardless of intent? If so then why the lack of uproar over the cartoons Carol posted? It smacks of a double standard. (not anybody HERE...directed to those who took offense at this comic but ignored the others)

I don't know.I don't even have a guess.

I don't know, and no one is going to like my guesses: Many black people's opinions of Clarence Thomas and Condoleeza Rice are in line with the sentiments of the cartoons and magazine cover. The magazine's target audience is black people. Some may even feel that way about Colin Powell (it's possible that even Colin Powell felt that way for a time, but that's another story.....)

It's also possible that they didn't see them........the only places I've seen the Condoleeza Rice ones is here on other threads.....

The world is full of ugly little double standards around things of this nature-it doesn't just "smackl of a double standard," it simply is a double standard.

In fairness...esp. to my recently posted images...

The magazine "emerge" has gone belly up. It is no more.

The website, blackcommentator.com, is still around...but is currently in beg-a-thon mode, reporting that they will be 50K in the red for FY2009.

While I don't think that is a complete justification to the (lack of) ourtage over the images, it may also show that there are way too many black Americans that are too busy studying, working, and/or taking care of their families...too many to be bothered with a media outlet that will sometimes focus on "victim politics"

However, this is a demonstration of another inequality. Take, for example, Mr. Juan Williams. He is a longtime correspondent for NPR news, as well as a regular at Washington Post and Fox News television. He has often voiced a conservative opinion, and has frequently been critical of the Obamas.

Yet google his name and you will also find references to him as a "sellout" or a "race-traitor" or other unsavory labels. You'll also find people that question why he is being labeled as such, when Rush Limbaugh makes more money than gawd as a white guy that criticizes other white guys, often in a cruder fashion...yet he escapes such labels.

I'm glad that I saw in my lifetime the day where a person of color was fairly elected as leader of the free world. I hope someday I can see the day when a person of color can be a conservative without being shot down with the very racial labels and epithets that most Americans (black or otherwise) find offensive. :asian:

 

[elder999]

I heard a local business broadcaster ask a NYC media analyst why there are people that keep trying to revive the Post.

Short answer - its not always about profit, its about prestige. .

Founded by Alexander Hamilton

New York Post, established 1801, describes itself as the nation's oldest continuously published daily newspaper. ............The Post was founded by Alexander Hamilton with about US$10,000 from a group of investors in the autumn of 1801 as the New-York Evening Post

That's a lot of prestige.........for a dismal, third-rate rag. :lfao:

 

[Gordon Nore]

Yet these depictions of black Americans are supposedly acceptable?

Well, no, they're not.

For many years in Canada, we had the regrettable tradition known as the Newfie Joke. The Newfie joke parodized the people of Newfoundland, which joined Confederation as a Province of Canada in 1949.

The jokes typically portayed Newfoundlanders as incompetent but good natured drunks. The practice of telling these jokes was ubiquitous. When someone discovered that my mother came from Newfoundland, they would typically say, "Have you heard the one about the Newfie...?" If one were to register any disapproval, the teller would say, "It's ok. I heard it from a Newfie."

No, it isn't OK. It may be legal and protected speech, but it isn't OK.

 

[Archangel M]

For many years in Canada, we had the regrettable tradition known as the Newfie Joke. The Newfie joke parodized the people of Newfoundland, which joined Confederation as a Province of Canada in 1949.

The jokes typically portayed Newfoundlanders as incompetent but good natured drunks. The practice of telling these jokes was ubiquitous. When someone discovered that my mother came from Newfoundland, they would typically say, "Have you heard the one about the Newfie...?" If one were to register any disapproval, the teller would say, "It's ok. I heard it from a Newfie."

No, it isn't OK. It may be legal and protected speech, but it isn't OK.

I dont know about that. I have Polish and Italian heritage and I like a good "Polack" or "wop" Joke every now and then ("its OK Im Polish AND Italian")...It seems like the "purer" the heritage the more offense people take.

Do Newfies tell Newfie jokes between themselves? Is that OK?

Black comedians can make "white jokes"...but White comedians can "cross the line" at the drop of a hat...is that OK?

 

[Carol]

For many years in Canada, we had the regrettable tradition known as the Newfie Joke. The Newfie joke parodized the people of Newfoundland, which joined Confederation as a Province of Canada in 1949.

The jokes typically portayed Newfoundlanders as incompetent but good natured drunks. The practice of telling these jokes was ubiquitous. When someone discovered that my mother came from Newfoundland, they would typically say, "Have you heard the one about the Newfie...?" If one were to register any disapproval, the teller would say, "It's ok. I heard it from a Newfie."

No, it isn't OK. It may be legal and protected speech, but it isn't OK.

Although it was often more acceptable (at least, among Anglophones...) if the Newfie joke ended by making fun of the Fren.....just kidding! I do know what you mean, after growing up in Buffalo and at one point employed by a large Canadian corporation, yeah, I heard them.

But I reserve my right to laugh at the Molson I Am Canadian commercials even though I bloody well know is us Yanks being lampooned.... :rofl:

 

[Gordon Nore]

Do Newfies tell Newfie jokes between themselves?

Yes, they do. Not all Newfoundlanders agree on this issue. I haven't heard anyone try to tell me an actual Newfie joke in years, which is fine.

Is that OK?

IMO No. But I'm not talking about people's right to say things. If a Newfoundlander objects to hearing a joke from anyone, I'm sure s/he will deal with it.

In these situations I simply tell people they don't to hear the joke. Don't know that a Newfie joke is racist, but I think like racial/ethnic humour is low-brow.

I've got a co-worker. He's the sort of guy who insists on telling me about the game last night, which I finally told him to stop doing... And telling jokes. I heard a couple of his jokes and then told him not to bother anymore.

 

[Archangel M]

Another aspect of the issue I was just considering is the total clampdown there seems to be on anything racial. Take this conversation for instance...so far it has been very civil and levelheaded but I would wager that anybody here discussing racial issues would spell out the "N" word here. Its to the point where we cant even use the word when discussing language. Using it as an insult is one thing..talking about the historic use of a word is another..yet its taboo to say/spell it. That is unless you are a rap musician or its part of your cultural lexicon. Is this a "right for me not for you" situation? Should it be a "right for all or a right for none" situation?

Don Imus and his recent scandal has a small portion of this going on...while the man should have had some better common sense than to say what he did (unless it was an intentional PR stunt)...I would also think there was a bit of "its used in popular culture (just not YOUR popular culture numbnuts) so why cant I say it?" Going on there.

 

[elder999]

IBlack comedians can make "white jokes"...but White comedians can "cross the line" at the drop of a hat...is that OK?

I hear this all the time, and it's really a misconception-sure, people can cross the line, but white comedians tell "black jokes" all the time. Showtime has a regular comedy feature called "White Boyz in the Hood," where mostly white comedians perform in front of largely black audiences-you can Google it, catch some youtube clips, or see it on Showtime's webpage, and see black people laughing their asses off at white comedians making black jokes.

On the other hand, when the guy who played Kramer publicly combusted a while ago, yelling "Look, he's a ******" at a heckler, well, that was "crossing the line," and here's the difference:

The comedians on Showtime are funny. He was not........

.......one could say as much about the majority of those cartoons, including the one in the OP.....just not funny.

 

[Archangel M]

True..thats why I didnt say that white comedians couldnt tell ANY black jokes. But they do walk a finer line IMO. I cant think of the last time I heard of any black comedian being skewered for a racial incident.

 

[girlbug2]

In fact, I think Bush was called Chimp more than Obama ever has.

that's true:

http://blogstersguild.blogspot.com/2008/04/president-bushs-many-chimp-faces.html

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushplanetchimp.htm

There's a lot more where those came from.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Should it be a "right for all or a right for none" situation?

.

Yes. That's the way it has to work.

 

[RandomPhantom700]

I doubt the editor missed how this might be interpreted. In fact, I would be willing to bet he counted on it. This is the New York Post after all. Circulation is down these days, they need the controversy to boost sales.

Wasn't the New York Post the one that made that controversial cover of Obama during the election last year? Oh wait, no, that was the New Yorker, my bad.

 

[elder999]

Oh wait, no, that was the New Yorker, my bad.

And that was borderline, but it was clever, if not funny.

I also think the "Obama campaign" could have been a little thicker skinned at that point in the game.....

 

[jarrod]

I dont know about that. I have Polish and Italian heritage and I like a good "Polack" or "wop" Joke every now and then ("its OK Im Polish AND Italian")...It seems like the "purer" the heritage the more offense people take.

i think you're right about the correlation between "purity" & offense. you might laugh at polish or italian jokes, but you are not polish or italian, you are an american with polish/italian ancestry. & being white (i'm assuming), you are part of mainstream america at that. a better test might be how italians & poles in italy & poland feel about such jokes.

i have scottish & irish ancestry, & i've chuckled at some jokes about the irish. but no one in my family's memory was denied work based on their irish- or scottish-ness, or cohersed into giving up their native language, or forced to live under british oppression. so i'm not really qualified to say whether such jokes are okay.

And that was borderline, but it was clever, if not funny.

I also think the "Obama campaign" could have been a little thicker skinned at that point in the game.....

well that makes sense at least. "obama" sounds like "osama", he went to a muslim school...i get it. but a singular ape is supposed to represent multipule monkeys, which represent politicians as a whole...the joke just doesn't build a very good bridge. it's bad writing.

jf

 

[Carol]

And the cover was less about the Obamas and more about the one-note Samba of "Obama is a terrorist" coming from those that didn't want a debate on the issues.