Martial arts style v style rant

[Steve]

It is rather weird to take things out of context, slap them together, and try and present them as truth too, but yet you continue to do so. That is a great way to push propaganda, but it most certainly is not truth. But to be honest I expect this response from you.

You quoted something that was said about the Ki master, which was a side conversation, and was not about the OPs topic, then put them together as a series of quote, out of context and out of proper order, and made it sound as if it was in response to the OP. We don't have to pretend it didn't happen, because it didn't happen as you are trying to present it, you are however pretending happen and continuing to push your misrepresentation in a quest for an argument. If you post things that ate not true, as you did, does not make them true.

Sorry, but it appears all you have here is misrepresentation, unfounded accusations and propaganda which you have been called on and caught doing and yet you continue to try and push your misrepresentation as truth.

I have no need to continue this conversation with you since you will never admit mistake or misrepresentation. And I have no need to prove anything to you, those who know me, know how I post, and those that know you know how you post.

I shall no longer waste my time on you here

Have a nice day

Glass houses, Xue.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Glass houses, Xue.

Glasshouses...interesting

I was actually expecting you to show up in support of Dropbear, and you did not disppoint

Now I ask you to please show me a thread where I belittled another art, I implore you actually. And also since you are saying glass house, please show me where I quoted other posters and made it look like they were answers to a post they were not related to.

Basically I implore you to please find posts where I was disingenuous and spreading untruths as well as belittling other arts as Dropbear has accused me of. If you can I welcome them and I will likely apologize for them, if you cannot, then lets just let it go

 

[Steve]

Glasshouses...interesting

I was actually expecting you to show up in support of Dropbear, and you did not disppoint

Now I ask you to please show me a thread where I belittled another art, I implore you actually. And also since you are saying glass house, please show me where I quoted other posters and made it look like they were answers to a post they were not related to.

Basically I implore you to please find posts where I was disingenuous and spreading untruths as well as belittling other arts as Dropbear has accused me of. If you can I welcome them and I will likely apologize for them, if you cannot, then lets just let it go

Xue, frankly, I think YOU should just let it go. You get worked up. Pretend you aren't worked up. Say things that belong more on a grade school playground and finish every post with a statement about taking your ball and going home.

I'm not defending Drop Bear. I honestly couldn't care less about whether you belittle other arts. If you want to belittle BJJ, great. Have at it, as far as I'm concerned. Belittle or don't belittle. Matters not one whit to me.

And if you want to insult people in an excruciatingly passive aggressive manner, have at it. Once again, it's not that, just like it's not whether you've belittled another art or not.

It's the hypocrisy that drives me nuts. That and the whining. It's that you criticize others for the behavior you actively engage in yourself. If you don't like it, don't do it. So, when I say glass houses, it's not because I care one way or the other whether you like, dislike or don't care about MMA, BJJ or any other art. It's that you and a couple of others are suggesting that you are some beacon of rationality. Your responses in this thread are ample evidence to the contrary, IMO.

And the rubber/glue response is fine. I expect and welcome it. I know that the next post is where you tell me I do the same thing. I'm okay with it. Unless this actually gets you to stop, which would be just fine, too.

Edit: Just out of curiosity, I went back through the entire thread to make sure, and in 7 pages, I haven't had any interaction with either drop bear or you, so if you've been waiting, I'm sorry to have kept you so long.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xue, frankly, I think YOU should just let it go. You get worked up. Pretend you aren't worked up. Say things that belong more on a grade school playground and finish every post with a statement about taking your ball and going home.

I'm not defending Drop Bear. I honestly couldn't care less about whether you belittle other arts. If you want to belittle BJJ, great. Have at it, as far as I'm concerned. Belittle or don't belittle. Matters not one whit to me.

And if you want to insult people in an excruciatingly passive aggressive manner, have at it. Once again, it's not that, just like it's not whether you've belittled another art or not.

It's the hypocrisy that drives me nuts. That and the whining. It's that you criticize others for the behavior you actively engage in yourself. If you don't like it, don't do it. So, when I say glass houses, it's not because I care one way or the other whether you like, dislike or don't care about MMA, BJJ or any other art. It's that you and a couple of others are suggesting that you are some beacon of rationality. Your responses in this thread are ample evidence to the contrary, IMO.

And the rubber/glue response is fine. I expect and welcome it. I know that the next post is where you tell me I do the same thing. I'm okay with it. Unless this actually gets you to stop, which would be just fine, too.

Edit: Just out of curiosity, I went back through the entire thread to make sure, and in 7 pages, I haven't had any interaction with either drop bear or you, so if you've been waiting, I'm sorry to have kept you so long.

Steve

I am not worked up at all, but apparently you are. I am actually rather calm and have been in all my posts in this thread, I tend to not let MT get to me like it use to. All I have asked for is proof of what I have been accused of and as well as asked why what I posted was used on answer to a post I was not answering. And you are reading much more into what I post than what is actually there. However I am getting the distinct impression that you have issues with me, based on a few of our past interactions. I apologize if I upset you this way. Might I suggest the ignore function if I upset you that much

 

[Steve]

Steve

I am not worked up at all, but apparently you are. I am actually rather calm and have been in all my posts in this thread, I tend to not let MT get to me like it use to. All I have asked for is proof of what I have been accused of and as well as asked why what I posted was used on answer to a post I was not answering. And you are reading much more into what I post than what is actually there. However I am getting the distinct impression that you have issues with me, based on a few of our past interactions. I apologize if I upset you this way. Might I suggest the ignore function if I upset you that much

I know. I know. I'm glue.

 

[Buka]

I'm old, foolish and tend to skip through a lot of posts/threads because there's just so many of them, so I'm most times not really sure what people argue about.

But if we were in the school yard......darest I say, we would be running over, yelling to others, "Fight! Fight!"
....of course then a mod would step in, and, of course, if we saw him coming we'd be saying out of the sides of our mouth - "teacher, teacher" and be walking off in different directions so as to not get in trouble.

I know it's not a fight. I'm just funnin'.

 

[wingchun100]

Taking multiple posts out of context and linking them to what Kickbox101 posted means what exactly?

I think it means your style sucks. LOL

 

[stonewall1350]

Here is my reply to the topic and it has essentially been stated...so I will just rehash it in my own words lol.

There is no "best style" only the "best fighter in a fight." Experience in an actual fight will probably give you a much bigger edge than experience in a specific style. If you take your black belt in karate or your "black shirt" in MMA (yea I know a place that does that)...and go out to the "hood" and try to fist fight some 20 year old hardcore thug who has been brawling for 10 years with no official training...there is a good chance he is going to beat your tail wholesale.

That is why I carry a gun. Too many people know too many things. I have no intention of EVER fighting someone (as the OP said). If I were forced to fight someone...I would use my knowledge of grappling to evade and get to the gun. Or to take him off his feet. Period. And that works for ME.

There is a best style for ME. It won't be the same as the best style for YOU.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The best thing to do is keep training and don't worry about it.

 

[Hanzou]

Here is my reply to the topic and it has essentially been stated...so I will just rehash it in my own words lol.

There is no "best style" only the "best fighter in a fight." Experience in an actual fight will probably give you a much bigger edge than experience in a specific style. If you take your black belt in karate or your "black shirt" in MMA (yea I know a place that does that)...and go out to the "hood" and try to fist fight some 20 year old hardcore thug who has been brawling for 10 years with no official training...there is a good chance he is going to beat your tail wholesale.

While that's a great bumper sticker, the truth is quite a bit more complex. There is evidence that supports that people coming out of style A are better fighters on average than people coming out of style B. This is mainly due to training methodology and other practices.

Personally, I'd say that sport MAs have a pretty large advantage over traditional MAs.

 

[KenpoBoxer]

Of course there's no best style. Traditional styles work as do sports. The reason traditional arts aren't used in the ring is because most people who train them simply don't want to compete. If Anderson silva never chose to step in the ring does that mean his skills would be any worse no of course not. Like has been said on here anyone can beat anyone a 10 year old kid could walk up to any of us and knock us out with 1 punch. Martial arts give you some tools but they don't turn you into an indestructible machine

 

[Steve]

Of course there's no best style. Traditional styles work as do sports. The reason traditional arts aren't used in the ring is because most people who train them simply don't want to compete. If Anderson silva never chose to step in the ring does that mean his skills would be any worse no of course not.

I think if Anderson Silva had never competed, he would be a much less effective martial artist. Absolutely. There isn't a doubt in my mind.

Further, I would say that HOW he trained and competed was more important than in which style or styles he trained. In other words, a guy who trains in any style, who actively and consistently applies technique in a competitive environment will ALWAYS perform better than a person who trains in any style and doesn't apply the technique in a competitive environment.

Like has been said on here anyone can beat anyone a 10 year old kid could walk up to any of us and knock us out with 1 punch. Martial arts give you some tools but they don't turn you into an indestructible machine

There is no 10 year old in the world who could walk up to a healthy, unimpaired adult and knock him or her out with one punch without the full cooperation of that adult. That's just not going to happen in the real world.

Martial arts may give a 10 year old some skills, but they won't turn that kid into Mike Tyson.

And regarding the larger issues being discussed, it's not about style vs style, but training model vs training model, and people need to just accept that the best most of us can hope for is mostly harmless. No matter how deadly you think you are, you aren't.

 

[drop bear]

Anderson silva tends to train pretty hard for someone who could achieve the same results at the self defence class at the YMCA.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I think if Anderson Silva had never competed, he would be a much less effective martial artist. Absolutely. There isn't a doubt in my mind.

Further, I would say that HOW he trained and competed was more important than in which style or styles he trained. In other words, a guy who trains in any style, who actively and consistently applies technique in a competitive environment will ALWAYS perform better than a person who trains in any style and doesn't apply the technique in a competitive environment.

And regarding the larger issues being discussed, it's not about style vs style, but training model vs training model, and people need to just accept that the best most of us can hope for is mostly harmless. No matter how deadly you think you are, you aren't.

So, you're arguing that someone who trains for point sparring (very light touch, no intent required) is better equipped than someone who trains hard but never competes? That's what I hear when I read "a guy who trains in any style, who actively and consistently applies technique in a competitive environment will ALWAYS perform better than a person who trains in any style and doesn't apply the technique in a competitive environment".

I'd disagree almost completely on that one. Training for competition makes you better at what you train for, which is the competition. If the skills you train for competition are also useful for another context (like defending yourself on the street), then the person who trains those skills for competition likely has an advantage over the person who doesn't.

Competition isn't a magic pill. Competing in the right skills, under the right rules, gives an advantage in combat effectiveness. Competing under a different set of rules does not. It goes back to the same concept you're talking about with training.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Anderson silva tends to train pretty hard for someone who could achieve the same results at the self defence class at the YMCA.

Yeah, no way anybody is getting those results from the average instructor, especially in 2-3 hours a week. They might get those results without competing (I doubt it, but I'll allow it's possible), but not without training at that intensity and with people capable of training him at that level. Just like attending the swimming classes at the Y won't develop anyone into the next Michael Phelps. Of course, those swimming classes can very easily make someone a capable swimmer, but never at that level.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, no way anybody is getting those results from the average instructor, especially in 2-3 hours a week. They might get those results without competing (I doubt it, but I'll allow it's possible), but not without training at that intensity and with people capable of training him at that level. Just like attending the swimming classes at the Y won't develop anyone into the next Michael Phelps. Of course, those swimming classes can very easily make someone a capable swimmer, but never at that level.

One of the things that was brought to mind when writing that was that i am under no illusions that there are tougher schools with better systems than mine. And that becomes a driving force or an inspiration to improve or adapt.

Otherwise the swimming factor is a different one again a bit. As it becomes a bit cultural. Australians will always be dominant swimmers due to the amount of participation and resources put in to the sport.

 

[Steve]

So, you're arguing that someone who trains for point sparring (very light touch, no intent required) is better equipped than someone who trains hard but never competes? That's what I hear when I read "a guy who trains in any style, who actively and consistently applies technique in a competitive environment will ALWAYS perform better than a person who trains in any style and doesn't apply the technique in a competitive environment".

I'd disagree almost completely on that one. Training for competition makes you better at what you train for, which is the competition. If the skills you train for competition are also useful for another context (like defending yourself on the street), then the person who trains those skills for competition likely has an advantage over the person who doesn't.

Competition isn't a magic pill. Competing in the right skills, under the right rules, gives an advantage in combat effectiveness. Competing under a different set of rules does not. It goes back to the same concept you're talking about with training.

I'm pretty sure I didn't say sparring, point sparring or otherwise.

Straw man aside, I would say that everything is a spectrum. It's not off/on. Some training is better than others, just as some competition will be closer to real world violence than others. But doing something will always build skill more reliably than pretending.

And I wouldn't say competition is a magic pill. It's a very important piece of the puzzle that those who don't compete never get. competition gives you something that impossible to replicate for most people. And it's much easier to adapt actual, well developed skills to a new context than to rely upon poorly developed, untested skills to any context.

 

[Steve]

One of the things that was brought to mind when writing that was that i am under no illusions that there are tougher schools with better systems than mine. And that becomes a driving force or an inspiration to improve or adapt.

Otherwise the swimming factor is a different one again a bit. As it becomes a bit cultural. Australians will always be dominant swimmers due to the amount of participation and resources put in to the sport.

When you swim, you tend to get better at it. Makes sense to me. Some people want to believe that fighting is the one physical activity in all human existence that can be learned to an expert level without any actual experience.

 

[Ironbear24]

When you swim, you tend to get better at it. Makes sense to me. Some people want to believe that fighting is the one physical activity in all human existence that can be learned to an expert level without any actual experience.

Unless I missed something here I don't see anyone claiming this. What people are saying is that the style doesn't matter, the individual and the way he or she trains is what matters.

If I spend years and years only hitting the air and bags, pads. I will be very good at hitting the air and pads and bags. Put a person there and then it is a whole other story.

Resistance training is what will set the two apart and it doesn't matter if it is karate or Taiji Quan or whatever the name is.

 

[Steve]

Unless I missed something here I don't see anyone claiming this. What people are saying is that the style doesn't matter, the individual and the way he or she trains is what matters.

If I spend years and years only hitting the air and bags, pads. I will be very good at hitting the air and pads and bags. Put a person there and then it is a whole other story.

Resistance training is what will set the two apart and it doesn't matter if it is karate or Taiji Quan or whatever the name is.

dude, you're saying the same thing I'm saying. I'm just being more specific.

And if you think Anderson Silva would be as effective if he didn't compete, or that. 10 year old could ever knock anyone out with one punch, you're delusional.