Martial arts style v style rant

Ironbear24 said:
I am going to use a really stupid example, but proves my point. I went to a place called "The Grove" on Halloween because my gf and friends wanted to go. Toward the end of the night they forced me into one of the haunted houses (where people jump out and scare you and it is decorated with props and special effects) I didn't want to because I am a big chicken.

Anyway long story short I get forced into going and a clown jumped out of nowhere and tried to grab me. I hate clowns, they creep me out, so I shove one of his arms out of the way and that turned his body to me exposing a nice row of ribs. I uppercut the ribs and then run away screaming as he is doubled over in pain.

Friends laugh and stuff but it wasn't funny, lucky for me I was just told to not go back in there ever again by security and no one pressed any assault charges. The clown was ok as his body suit seemed to cushion most of it.

Anyway the point is that technique has about 4 hits in it and I only needed to use one. The many strikes in these techniques are 'just in case" things where if the person doesn't go down on the first hit or first few hits.
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Exactly well for start yeah that wasnt good you punching a dude doing his job I mean if you had to punch a clown couldn't it be one of those idiots who go round on the streets scaring people lol. Anyway yeah exactly your right. People say all that about kenpo techniques how the guy just stands there etc. but what's the difference with that and hitting the focus mitts. When you focus mitts your partner is just standing there letting you hit them without moving or fighting back no different to the techniques. I'd say the techniques are better because you're actually punching to the targets where as in mitts your not actually hitting in the exact areas. The kenpo techniques will very rarely work exactly as they're being taught I don't think any instructor will claim they all do. I mean they can do but what they're for is to teach a wide range of moves and combination so you can take bits from each and apply it when you need it. That's the 3 phase concept: ideal, what if and fornulation. Personally since I've been doing kenpo again I've been feeling like I've been learning more when it comes to self defence. Kickboxing is great for cardio and strength and speed and the basic punches and kicks but kenpo Is more technical and teaches you what reaction your opponent might have and how to transition from move to thr next.

What you said about only using one strike reminds me of a story I read in lee wedlakes book lessons with ed Parker (which is actually a very interesting book) but he says ed Parker told a story about one of his students who worked as a bouncer came into class all upset because he thought he was getting slow because he tried to use a technique on someone but they'd already hit the floor before he could finish his techie but Parker told him that was a good thing that he didn't need everything that his one shot was good enough to end it but in case it didn't he still had the other moves as back up.
 
Steve said:
That doesn't excuse the behavior. If you are punching strangers you should probably fix that before you learn how to punch more effectively.
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Actually, he seems to be doing better about this sort of thing lately. It's a maturation process. We all have different areas where we have to mature as we grow. This is his, and he's working on it..
 
Kickboxer101 said:
Exactly well for start yeah that wasnt good you punching a dude doing his job I mean if you had to punch a clown couldn't it be one of those idiots who go round on the streets scaring people lol. Anyway yeah exactly your right. People say all that about kenpo techniques how the guy just stands there etc. but what's the difference with that and hitting the focus mitts. When you focus mitts your partner is just standing there letting you hit them without moving or fighting back no different to the techniques. I'd say the techniques are better because you're actually punching to the targets where as in mitts your not actually hitting in the exact areas. The kenpo techniques will very rarely work exactly as they're being taught I don't think any instructor will claim they all do. I mean they can do but what they're for is to teach a wide range of moves and combination so you can take bits from each and apply it when you need it. That's the 3 phase concept: ideal, what if and fornulation. Personally since I've been doing kenpo again I've been feeling like I've been learning more when it comes to self defence. Kickboxing is great for cardio and strength and speed and the basic punches and kicks but kenpo Is more technical and teaches you what reaction your opponent might have and how to transition from move to thr next.

What you said about only using one strike reminds me of a story I read in lee wedlakes book lessons with ed Parker (which is actually a very interesting book) but he says ed Parker told a story about one of his students who worked as a bouncer came into class all upset because he thought he was getting slow because he tried to use a technique on someone but they'd already hit the floor before he could finish his techie but Parker told him that was a good thing that he didn't need everything that his one shot was good enough to end it but in case it didn't he still had the other moves as back up.
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I don't know anything about kempo/kenpo, but I assume the "techniques" are like the "classical techniques" in NGA (my primary art). Our Classical Techniques are for learning combinations of movements in a method that allows beginners to go very slow and to focus on their movements (rather than the "attacker"). The Classical Technique is not always directly applicable to defensive use - we immediately progress into "applications" where we translate that technique into defensive use.
 
gpseymour said:
Actually, he seems to be doing better about this sort of thing lately. It's a maturation process. We all have different areas where we have to mature as we grow. This is his, and he's working on it..
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Working in punching people? Wtf?
 
Hanzou said:
No one is suddenly going to stop moving and reacting when you start hitting them.
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It's like in some horror movies that when a bad guy chokes on a girl's throat, the girl's hands will drop next to her legs and vibrate her body like a fish. In reality, people just don't react like this.

Many demo assume that your clock can run 6 times faster than your opponent's clock. It doesn't make any sense to me.

In fighting, you attack your opponent's leading leg, when he steps back, you then attack his other leg while taking advantage on his weight shifting. You just don't attack your opponent's leading leg 6 times non-stop before your opponent has chance to step back.
 
Steve said:
If you are punching clowns in a haunted house, you're not learning very good self defense skills and probably need to figure that out.
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Any time I can read something that starts with "If you are punching clowns in a haunted house..." that's a damn good day, right there.

I'm thinking off-Broadway play, even.
 
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Ironbear24 said:
I am going to use a really stupid example, but proves my point. I went to a place called "The Grove" on Halloween because my gf and friends wanted to go. Toward the end of the night they forced me into one of the haunted houses (where people jump out and scare you and it is decorated with props and special effects) I didn't want to because I am a big chicken.

Anyway long story short I get forced into going and a clown jumped out of nowhere and tried to grab me. I hate clowns, they creep me out, so I shove one of his arms out of the way and that turned his body to me exposing a nice row of ribs. I uppercut the ribs and then run away screaming as he is doubled over in pain.

Friends laugh and stuff but it wasn't funny, lucky for me I was just told to not go back in there ever again by security and no one pressed any assault charges. The clown was ok as his body suit seemed to cushion most of it.

Anyway the point is that technique has about 4 hits in it and I only needed to use one. The many strikes in these techniques are 'just in case" things where if the person doesn't go down on the first hit or first few hits.
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Jesus Christ you really need to learn some damm control kid. You're 100% right that is not funny at all. That's assault what you did there'd be 0 justification for self defence you went into a haunted house knowing what there'd be and when 1 came at you doing his job you punched him. You could've stopped at just moving his arm away there was 0 need to hit him. You're very lucky if that was I'd have called the police and had you charged with assault hurt or not. I honestly think a bit of time inside would do you good to shake you out of doing stupid things like that. All the fights you've been in its a miracle you haven't done time. You're what 27? And reacting like that to an actor playing a part in a haunted house that's something you'd see a 10 year old do getting scared of a character at Disney land so they kick them in the shins. So you punched him in the ribs imagine you'd broken his ribs you're a big guy who trains it's not unrealistic that guy can't work for a while so he sues you for damages and you have to pay him compensation. Or worse he keeps working with a broken rib and the part of the bone that's broken punctures his lung the guy dies you're on a murder or manslaughter charge and why? Because you got scared.
 
Steve said:
That doesn't excuse the behavior. If you are punching strangers you should probably fix that before you learn how to punch more effectively.
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Exactly otherwise it's very dangerous I hate when people say that oh I didn't do it on purpose so what you accidentally threw a punch. Yeah that happens to me all the time I'm chatting to my friend at the bar I go to reach for my wallet to buy a drink and bam my friends on the floor with a broken nose
 
Ironbear24 said:
Here we go again. I will atone for my sins once again in the peaks of Mt. Asianic name. Brb.
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That really shows you're immaturity. Maybe listen to what people are saying then dumb stuff like this will stop happening
 
I'm not trying to derail this... but I've got a question for Kickboxer101....

When you train... why isn't your partner, who is holding the focus mitts, NOT moving? Didn't it occur to you guys that that person can move as well? The only reason for the mitts is so that you can wail away and your partner isn't at (much) risk of being hurt.

Next time you do mitt-work,, ask your partner to circle, bob & weave, move about as if they were trying to get into position to bash you back. indeed, at times, have them shoot out a jab/cross/hook from time to time to make sure you keep your movement tactics honest. It isn't good to just learn "I come in and smack 'em and they fall down." I mean, it's great if you get that result when you need it, sure, but it's rare.
 
Headhunter said:
Jesus Christ you really need to learn some damm control kid. You're 100% right that is not funny at all. That's assault what you did there'd be 0 justification for self defence you went into a haunted house knowing what there'd be and when 1 came at you doing his job you punched him. You could've stopped at just moving his arm away there was 0 need to hit him. You're very lucky if that was I'd have called the police and had you charged with assault hurt or not. I honestly think a bit of time inside would do you good to shake you out of doing stupid things like that. All the fights you've been in its a miracle you haven't done time. You're what 27? And reacting like that to an actor playing a part in a haunted house that's something you'd see a 10 year old do getting scared of a character at Disney land so they kick them in the shins. So you punched him in the ribs imagine you'd broken his ribs you're a big guy who trains it's not unrealistic that guy can't work for a while so he sues you for damages and you have to pay him compensation. Or worse he keeps working with a broken rib and the part of the bone that's broken punctures his lung the guy dies you're on a murder or manslaughter charge and why? Because you got scared.
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I'm only 5'9 and 210, I'm not that big, but yeah I get your point. The guy was wearing a body suit and much of it was absorbed by that, I apologized and he said he was ok, later on security spoke with me along with him and told me to just not go back inside those. I again said sorry and they were just laughing it off.

I agree with you and see your point and know it was wrong, but what am I supposed to do now? If you expect to flog myself or something (not being literal) then that is not going to happen. I don't really know what more you expect me to do about it other than learn from it and move on.
 
Hanzou said:
While that's a great bumper sticker, the truth is quite a bit more complex. There is evidence that supports that people coming out of style A are better fighters on average than people coming out of style B. This is mainly due to training methodology and other practices.

Personally, I'd say that sport MAs have a pretty large advantage over traditional MAs.
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That is categorically not true. If your argument is that the people coming out of sport arts have more experience against someone else that is a point I would be willing to acknowledge because of experience against an opponent.

But...sports have rules. There are no weapons. It is 1 on 1. And the ground? The ground is typically hard. Not soft. And if you take that sport like MMA out into the street...you might be delivering accurate punches or grappling, but the other guy very easily could be pulling a gun/knife/stick/brick/soup can and delivering strikes. He also may be a hell of a lot tougher and meaner. And he may not fee too bad about kicking you in the crotch or throat punching you.

And I'm primarily a sport martial artist. But I carry a gun.

Now...if you are talking about that art that is all "pressure points" and magic punches (what is it? Systema?)...then I agree lol. But other arts like Kung Fu...are actually surpassingly effective and brutal....if applied correctly. I love watching the Kung Fu guys spar at my gym.


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