Martial Arts and Physical Fitness

[Colin_Linz]

Fast explosive movements are trained by working in a fast explosive manner. If your teacher is slow and leaden, you will mimic slow and leaden.

Myself i would always much rather move like a young Muhammadi Ali than a older Muhammd Ali,
Todd

There are two type of speed. The fast explosive type, and the free flow of technique type. The fast explosive type is only good while you are young and continue to train for it, but the free flowing type will stay with you even as you get older. I will ask many of my students, especially those that have done other arts to relax and do the techniques slower, but concentrate on connectivity. Many that have done other arts before often try to do the techniques too fast. They then tend to break the technique down into individual sections. This makes the total technique slow, even though the individual punches, kicks, blocks or even stages of throwing are explosive and quick. By slowing down and working on the free flow and connectivity to the next technique the techniques actually appear faster to an opponent, this type of technical action will stay with you for a longer period than pure fitness.

 

[Adept]

1. Fitness is relative. Age, injuries, and body type all come into play when one is talking about physical fitness. That is why I think that fitness requirements should be adjusted somewhat per person. (My opinion differs from my instructor in this)

See, I'd have to go and disagree with this. I dont want to get into a debate about how important fitness is to a martial art, since it all depends. But I dont think standards of fitness should be relative. 50 push ups is 50 push ups, and everyone does them.

A good post, and a good thread, just throwing my opinion into the mix.

 

[Adept]

An important point to remember. It is possible to be fat, but still be fit and fast. I mean, just look at sumo wrestlers, for example.

 

[Colin_Linz]

An important point to remember. It is possible to be fat, but still be fit and fast. I mean, just look at sumo wrestlers, for example.

Very true, at the last International Taikai I attended the study session was at our Hombu in Tadotsu. There was one large Instructor there; he was a student of Matsuda sensei. He had the most powerful punches I’ve felt. They were delivered effortlessly and fast. Having a past history of Triathlons and Cycling I have seen a number of what would be called overweight participants. These people may not make it to the elite level, but their cardio fitness is quite high, and would be better than many other sports people. At one Cycling Club I was at we had one guy racing A grade that was what many would call fat. Sometimes overweight is no indication of physical inactivity, but rather genetic predisposition.

 

[terryl965]

Being over wieght does not mean out of shape, football players like lineman are over wieght but are in shape. Physical fitness does not mean lean and trim all the time. I know alot of old timers with a little extra baggage but I would not want to tackle these giants. Most guys in MA tend to add a few pounds over fifty, but they still can move when need be.
Terry Lee Stoker
Old Guy
Twin Dragons MAS

 

[Tgace]

True...but those extra pounds put strain on the heart. Theres been studies linking waist size with heart attack.

 

[terryl965]

True...but those extra pounds put strain on the heart. Theres been studies linking waist size with heart attack.

Yes there have been study's about extra pounds, but the point is extra pounds does not mean out of shape!

 

[Tgace]

Yes there have been study's about extra pounds, but the point is extra pounds does not mean out of shape!

That depends...in shape enough to defend yourself from a hand to hand attack? Probably. In shape enough to carry a wounded person 500 yds to safety? Maybe, but probably not. In shape enough to win a 5K?... I would want to strive to be "In shape" enough to accomplish the most physical goals. Just general fitness is good enough, if you have the time/dedication to reach elite levels great, but I wouldnt want to be "satisfied" with my condition. There should always be a higher goal.

 

[Makalakumu]

That depends...in shape enough to defend yourself from a hand to hand attack? Probably. In shape enough to carry a wounded person 500 yds to safety? Maybe, but probably not. In shape enough to win a 5K?... I would want to strive to be "In shape" enough to accomplish the most physical goals. Just general fitness is good enough, if you have the time/dedication to reach elite levels great, but I wouldnt want to be "satisfied" with my condition. There should always be a higher goal.

I am with you on this one. This goal is directly inline of my view of my art as an artist.

 

[Tgace]

I am with you on this one. This goal is directly inline of my view of my art as an artist.

Every once and a while even you and I can agree on something. :asian:

 

[Colin_Linz]

We will all have our personnel aspirations regarding fitness, and each will be right for that person; however getting back to the original question regarding the degree of fitness necessary to be considered a martial arts. I believe that the level of fitness needed is not unusually high. Take some of those old Kyodo practitioners; they would not be very fit in the way that we are talking about here, but they are recognised as exceptional martial artists. Another example is Master Hung from Taiwan (the guy featured in the BBC series “Way Of The Warrior”. He is a world-renowned master of Chinese martial arts, yet he is overweight, but he is considered internationally as an exceptional martial artist.

Moving to the practical side of martial arts. If you are doing Kakutougi (Martial Arts that are sport related) fitness will be a very large part of your training. If you are doing Budo or Bujutsu (martial arts designed for self defence) then there is not the same need. You may feel that personally you would like to very fit, but it is not a necessity to be overly fit. Any conflict you get into will be fairly short and the energy system you use will be anaerobic. Not matter how fit you are you won’t be able to sustain this for long, what will be the telling factor in this encounter will be your trained responses, your attitude, and your mental strength.

I have trained under a number of older less fit teachers. Given the choice between them and someone that’s main claim to fame is that they can win a 5k race or do a 100 pushups I know who I will choose.

 

[Tgace]

I dunno, Ive seen come classical arts where the conditioning programs were brutal compared to what an average US student would tolerate.

 

[MichiganTKD]

I do not mean to imply that overweight is necessarily out of shape. However, there is a difference between learning judo from a "rotund" individual, and learning Tae Kwon Do from such an individual.
In judo, having a larger belly is not an impediment to being able to correctly execute judo techniques. And a judo body is famous for being heavier and stockier. In Tae Kwon Do, it definitely becomes a challenge to properly show technique, especially advanced kicking and footwork, when one is overweight or otherwise out of shape. I have seen VERY few heavy or rotund Tae Kwon Do students or black belts. The techniques of the Art just do not lend themselves to that kind of a body. It might very well be different with judo or aikido. What might be considered out of shape for Tae Kwon Do might be ideal or no problem for judo.

 

[Tgace]

Good point.

link to MA fitness training...
http://www.veloforce.net/Sportspec.html

 

[Colin_Linz]

I dunno, Ive seen come classical arts where the conditioning programs were brutal compared to what an average US student would tolerate.

I couldn’t give an opinion on training in the America. My training has been mainly in Australia with some visits to our Hombu in Japan. I trained under a Japanese teacher here for many years, and we regularly have visiting instructors from Hombu here for our study sessions, or just visiting. At one stage I had one 4th dan living with me for six months, while he helped get the Newcastle Branch up and running. So I think I have a reasonably good idea of their training methods. I would have to say they don’t resemble anything like the stereotypical image of Japanese classes. I remember my first visit to Hombu, I was shocked, I didn’t do one pushup the entire time. This of course may just be the way Shorinji Kempo is taught there. It may be different in some other arts, but that’s the thing. Martial Arts are quite varied and work using different philosophies, so making a blanket statement that your have to be fit to be a martial artist is just not correct. From a personnel level I enjoy fitness training, and I enjoy being fit; however I don’t see this as necessary for someone to be considered a martial artist.

 

[Adept]

That depends...in shape enough to defend yourself from a hand to hand attack? Probably. In shape enough to carry a wounded person 500 yds to safety? Maybe, but probably not. In shape enough to win a 5K?...

I've seen blokes that were actually obese (according to their BMI) run half and full marathons. Now, I'm pretty fit, and while heavy set, I'm not obese. There is no way I could (currently) run a marathon, or even half a one.

 

[dmdfromhamilton]

Some Martial Arts in my humble opinion require little physical fitness like hapkido and are able to be used effectively without more than average physical fitness , but some require a large amount to work effectively like the way some ppl teach karate

 

[jjmcc]

They should come hand in hand as a large majority of people who study martial arts actually started to keep fit...

 

[Colin_Linz]

They should come hand in hand as a large majority of people who study martial arts actually started to keep fit...

Ah yes, but how fit is fit, and what is a Martial Art? Do you need to be fit to be a Martial Artist? If you are training a Kakutougi (a sport based martial art) you will need to fit enough to participate with the rules of the sport. If you are studying a form of Budo (martial art designed for self improvement) then any improvement you make is within its aim. So fitness might be one area you would like to improve, do you need to be fit enough to run a marathon or just increase your health on a whole. If you have started Martial Arts to be fit enough to run a marathon then you have chosen the wrong sport, you should have taken up Marathon running. If you want to become extremely flexible, then Gymnastics may have been a better choice. If you want to develop a strong focus and mental strength, a calm physical action, then kyudo may be the right choice.

 

[The Kai]

So you are saying that of you want to run a marathon or get to be extremely flexible you should drop out of the martial arts? Are'nt self protection arts suppossed to keep you healthy?

Todd