Leverage: strikes to beat bigger guys

[myusername]

Nice video. Is there another clip where explains where to strike in the chin? At the moment im wary of solely striking the chin because of the reason he mentioned... It takes tío many shots to the chin to accomplish this.

Sorry I missed this first time round. I haven't found a video but in one of his articles on the subject he explains a little more about the specific chin target area;

"The point of the chin or an inch either side is the prime target. The jaw will also provide a KO, but not as effectively as the chin. How you strike this target is down to you, whether it be with fist, elbow, palm heel, knee or kick."

He goes on to talk of other prime target areas. I know I ma biased but I think this is a good article and makes lots of comments relevant to this thread......

"But the question that really needs to be answered is which vital spots will stop an all out 'wired' assailant who doesn't care about your abilities, grades or reputation - whose only concern is tearing you limb from limb? Imagine for a moment, if you will your sort nightmare opponent. It might be somebody like one of the awesome specimens from the world's strongest man, or a relentless and savage fighter like Roy 'Pretty Boy' Shaw or 'Iron' Mike Tyson. It could be one of the best fighters on the planet like Rickson Gracie or Tito Ortiz, or maybe it's just some drugged up psycho brandishing a big knife.​

Whoever it is, they are annoyed with you, they have only one thought in mind, to take your life. Now what are you going to rely on, when running isn't an option, talking them down isn't on the cards or finding a suitable weapon to stop them isn't available? What pressure point or vital point are you going to place your faith and probably your life in? Can you really say you have the upmost confidence when the rug of compliancy is tugged away form beneath you?​

Remember we are looking for complete stoppers here, that will end the danger. Not hurt them, not stun them, bruise them or tickle them! These guys and their like are monsters with extreme pain tolerance. They will not back off because of a blow on the nose, a kick on the thigh or a poke in the eye! They are going to keep on coming. I have witnessed this sort of thing on the streets. ​

I have spoken to people involved in hand-to-hand combat in war conditions and seen people walk through groin strikes, fight on with broken limbs or with ears hanging off and worse. I have boxed and fought in vale tudo bouts against opponents who just kept on coming even when you have landed big powerful shots. ​

Also let's not forget the culture in our modern society of drugs and alcohol. These substances can dull pain the have an anaesthetic effect on the body, which can then take huge quantities of abuse. Once again when mind and body is 'hyped up' to fight it can take untold punishment without apparent effect or very little. So what do we place our trust in, in this most dire of situations?

There are only three methods of stopping somebody totally in their tracks and ending an encounter. You hve to attack their neurological system, air or blood. All will put the attacker into unconsciousness, which is the only time they are no longer dangerous. Forget anything else, these are the only 'manstoppers'. ​

Let's look at the first method, the neurological system. Basically we are looking for the knockout which shuts down the brain functioning, and puts the attacker to sleep. The KO to the chin is the oldest vital point strike in the book, but still one of the best. Every boxer will tell you how to achieve it and in the competitive full contact arena it is nearly always a fight-stopper guaranteed.​

The point of the chin or an inch either side is the prime target. The jaw will also provide a KO, but not as effectively as the chin. How you strike this target is down to you, whether it be with fist, elbow, palm heel, knee or kick. ​

Circumstances and skill levels will determine this. My personal favourite is the palm heel, or chin jab as famed CQC expert Captain William Fairbairn called it.​

Although the KO point of striking is the chin, the impact will be felt at the base of the skull where the vital systems of the cerebellum and medulla-olongata at the brain stem controls vital functions for breathing, heart rate and blood pressure. ​

When we impact on the chin, the brain, which is floating in cerebral fluid, smashes against the skull, hence the knockout and the shut down of the consciousness. Usually the attacker's legs will buckle underneath them and they will collapse. Depending on the angle of delivery, they will go straight back, spin to the side or drop in a heap on the spot. ​

The other thing to consider is their unconscious body impacting with the ground, particularly the skull, this can have a devastating effect. Second area to strike for that brain shutdown is the base of the skull joins the first of seven cervical vertebrae of the spine is the spot, which we have already established houses the cerebellum and medulla-olongata.​

Battering blows with hammer-fists, forearms and elbows are best for this target, especially if the person is bent over forward. This spot was well known by soldiers as an attack point with the butt of the rifle. ​

Gross motor skills can be badly effected, particularly muscular activity of the limbs and this could result in a paraplegic effect. It is a highly dangerous point to attack but does require a certain degree of force and a battery like assault.​

Third and final point is the temples or more specifically the temporal lobe and the sphenoid bone, both situated about one and a half inches back from the eye socket. The temporal and meningeal arteries run closely to the surface here.​

Again when struck with heavy punches, hammer blows or elbows this can produce unconsciousness. Those who follow the UFC will remember in its early days, a couple of truly devastating KO's were produced by elbows to the temples. These three vital points can be finishers and potentially in some cases, lethal. Beware! ​

Next up, air. Attacks directly to the windpipe can interfere dramatically with the breathing process. Knife hand strikes, arc hands, fore knuckle and pinch grip attacks to this area will deprive the brain of vital air rich in oxygen and the windpipe will spasm eventually causing unconsciousness.​

Naked chokes using the forearm across the larynx area can also constrict the windpipe, causing a gradual blackout. This is really a highly unpleasant feeling a nasty KO. Throat attacks are extreme defence for extreme situations.​

Finally the blood systems. Here we come back to the carotid sinus. The large carotid arteries carry blood to the brain, rich in oxygen. You have external and internal carotid arteries. These two arteries rise from the common carotid and there they join at the point of the carotid sinus.​

This is roughly level with the Adams apple and where you can feel a pulse beat in the neck. The sinus monitors blood pressure to the brain, it also houses a branch of the vagus nerve that controls the heart beat.​

If this point is struck with a knife hand blow, the blood pressure drops suddenly to the brain and we have a KO. Also a variety of strangles used mainly in Ju Jutsu and Judo, known as 'sleeper holds' can render a person unconscious very quickly indeed.​

The areas mentioned in this article are the only guaranteed points to put someone down and out, even then under extreme pressure they are still difficult to achieve. You have a better chance of executing them in a pre-emptive attack against an impending assault, rather than when your assailant is moving and attacking.​

If it goes to the floor, knowledge of control and pinning are essential to get your blows in. Elbows and headbutts can then be effective on these points as can vicious, last resort biting to the neck and throat. ​

Never forget when we were created we were built to last and the body is highly resilient. The weak points are there on every human being regardless of size or strength but it is no easy task to hit them.​

If you do strike with accuracy, focus and power even the biggest will fall. Do remember we are talking about life threatening situations here - not some minor disagreement or argument. These strikes are last resort techniques and NOT TO BE ABUSED.​

I had an opportunity to meet and talk to the legendary Roy 'Pretty Boy' Shaw some years ago and when I asked him his strategy to winning a fight he replied simply 'Bang them on the chin', enough said!"


Here is the full article


http://www.kevinohagan.com/Webpages/Pages/Articles_Self_Extreme.htm​

 

[KamonGuy2]

I think people are making the mistake of looking for special strikes rather than focusing on what will actually bring down a big guy - hard strikes, good kicks,

As a big guy, I've been hit in the throat, hit in the solar plexus, kicked in the balls, hit in the jaw and most of them haven't phased me

If you hit hard, it truly doesn't matter where you hit the guy. Kevin Chan punched me in the sternum during a demo. It was half his power but it felt like someone had thrown a car at me

Obviously hitting someone hard in the throat causes more damage than hitting them in the sternum, but if they are a foot taller than you, you will find it hard to actually get the hit into the throat

I see students in class always trying to hit weak spots instead of keeping pressure on and working on delivering power

If you look for a specific technique, you could be waiting a long long time

Strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir!!

 

[K-man]

In Kevin O'Hagan's article he says: "Never forget when we were created we were built to last and the body is highly resilient. The weak points are there on every human being regardless of size or strength but it is no easy task to hit them."
He is not talking about a little guy attacking a big guy. In the OP we are given the scenario of David and Goliath. To get close enough to hit as some are suggesting is almost a death wish. To get inside a taller, bigger opponent and be able to hit with enough force and accuracy to cause injury or to disable would be just on impossible. Look at what geezer said:

OK, my problem with this is that there isn't much that you can use against a big guy that he can't use right back against you! That's why little guys have to go for the nasty stuff right away. They can't stand there trading punches. They have to take the other guy out fast.

Commit it to memory if you're a little guy, then take out the knee! :asian:

 

[myusername]

In Kevin O'Hagan's article he says: "Never forget when we were created we were built to last and the body is highly resilient. The weak points are there on every human being regardless of size or strength but it is no easy task to hit them."
He is not talking about a little guy attacking a big guy. In the OP we are given the scenario of David and Goliath. To get close enough to hit as some are suggesting is almost a death wish. To get inside a taller, bigger opponent and be able to hit with enough force and accuracy to cause injury or to disable would be just on impossible. Look at what geezer said:Commit it to memory if you're a little guy, then take out the knee! :asian:

Agreed up to a point, go for the knee, go for any strike that you can see but the important thing I think to remember is that you can kick the guy in the knee all you want but if he is bigger than you, tanked up on stimulant drugs or determined to hurt you then you shouldn't rely on the knee strike to be the finisher!

Go for the knee and run away! That may work! But if I can't run away then I wont be relying on it to save me. I will use it, but only as a combo with the aim of enabling me to bring the guy down to my level or as a distraction so that I can get in the knockout shots. I'm not trying to say this would be easy as if your attacker is much stronger and determined to hurt you, then the chances are that you are going to have your hands full however you decide to fight them.

 

[mook jong man]

I think people are making the mistake of looking for special strikes rather than focusing on what will actually bring down a big guy - hard strikes, good kicks,

As a big guy, I've been hit in the throat, hit in the solar plexus, kicked in the balls, hit in the jaw and most of them haven't phased me

If you hit hard, it truly doesn't matter where you hit the guy. Kevin Chan punched me in the sternum during a demo. It was half his power but it felt like someone had thrown a car at me

Obviously hitting someone hard in the throat causes more damage than hitting them in the sternum, but if they are a foot taller than you, you will find it hard to actually get the hit into the throat

I see students in class always trying to hit weak spots instead of keeping pressure on and working on delivering power

If you look for a specific technique, you could be waiting a long long time

Strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir!!

I agree with you Kamon , just adhere to the Wing Chun principles and learn to generate power.
Practice your stance and other basics and learn to punch hard and kick hard. As you said keep the pressure on them , hit them with a chain of techniques until they go down.

Go after them with speed and ferocity continually using your stance to press forward and keep them off balance and in a defensive posture . Alternate between hand techniques and low kicks to the shins as you go forward.

I remember one of my instructors saying to me , just remember a big guy has the same amount of skin covering his shin bone as what you do . A lot of people say yeah what happens if the guys shins are conditioned from Thai boxing , I say so what.

My shins are conditioned from taking low heel kicks to the shins for years and they still bloody hurt me and that was from classmates , I wouldn't like to take one from somebody who's been training for years and knows what they're doing and can generate real power.

The pain is excruciating , especially if they get that little spot with their heel just slightly to the inside of the shin and about an inch 1/2 below the knee cap where the nerves are. I've probably told this story before , but anyway I'll tell it again.

One morning my missus was heading off to work , it was about 6.30 am , so there she is walking to the local bus stop which is about 8 mins walk. Along the way some scumbag jumps out from behind a tree and threatens her with a knife and says to give him her hand bag.

This hero with a knife was about 6 foot and solid build , my wife is about 5 foot very slight build .She says no , he pushes her to the ground and tries to grab the bag , she won't let go of the bag. This maggot tries to slash her she puts up a Dai sau to defend and takes the slash on the outside of the forearm , from the ground she does a couple of heel kicks into his shins .

He can't take the pain and hobbles off to his getaway car and scurries back underneath whatever rock he came from. Now my wife is no Wing Chun fanatic , she only trained haphazardly for a couple of months , she prefers shopping.

But I taught her a little bit at home when I could persuade her to do it. Luckily she was able to remember some of it , she said that the bloke was definitely on something by the look of his eyes . Now what I'm saying is that she was able to make him abort the assault with her power even though she doesn't train regularly and is not really into Wing Chun .

On reflection it probably would have been better if she just gave him the bag , but she is stubborn and Japanese , descended from Samurai stock . Whats to say if she gave him the bag he wouldn't of stabbed her anyway , thats the way these pricks are these days.

She has a small scar on her forearm to remind her of the incident , and maybe somewhere in this losers drug addled mind he might remember the day he picked on a small woman who fought back and kicked the absolute crap out of his shins and made him think that maybe armed purse snatching wasn't a great way to make a living after all.

 

[myusername]

I think people are making the mistake of looking for special strikes rather than focusing on what will actually bring down a big guy - hard strikes, good kicks,

As a big guy, I've been hit in the throat, hit in the solar plexus, kicked in the balls, hit in the jaw and most of them haven't phased me

If you hit hard, it truly doesn't matter where you hit the guy. Kevin Chan punched me in the sternum during a demo. It was half his power but it felt like someone had thrown a car at me

Obviously hitting someone hard in the throat causes more damage than hitting them in the sternum, but if they are a foot taller than you, you will find it hard to actually get the hit into the throat

I see students in class always trying to hit weak spots instead of keeping pressure on and working on delivering power

If you look for a specific technique, you could be waiting a long long time

Strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir!!

Agree totally about keeping the pressure on! I said in an earlier post on this thread about using a blitzing mentality. However, I do think that targeting is important purely for the reason you mention in your post "Hitting someone hard in the throat causes more damage than hitting them in the sternum"

In regards to finding it hard to attack these targets above the shoulders due to the attacker being much bigger than you. In my very humble opinion I would suggest that it is still possible and one should always have those targets in mind. Going in and blitzing your opponent with hard powerful strikes is going to tire you out quickly so you need to have an end goal in mind. Yep totally agree, attack whatever you can see or reach as hard as you can but as soon as you see an opportunity to interfere with the attackers blood, air or conciousness you should take it.
I think that people are always looking for that magical off switch like the vulcan death grip!!! This is wishful thinking. I agree that working on delivering power should be the martial artists main goal, especially if you are a smaller guy as you need to make sure every shot reaches it full potential.

But at the end of the day if you have thrown your best shot at a guys throat and it hasn't phased him then no amount of striking other areas is going to help you, I would start thinking about moving from striking to chokes and strangles and biting.

 

[mook jong man]

But at the end of the day if you have thrown your best shot at a guys throat and it hasn't phased him then no amount of striking other areas is going to help you, I would start thinking about moving from striking to chokes and strangles and biting.

I concur , if you have exhausted all other avenues against some drug crazed cyborg who is hell bent on your demise and it is not having the desired affect . Then it is good to have the grappling as a back up , doesn't matter what particular drug cocktail he's on , slap a rear naked choke on him and he's going to sleep.

Not only that , its handy to know just in case you have to deal with the drunken brother in law syndrome . A situation where it is just not appropriate to beat the crap out of some one with striking but more tactful and humane to put them in a choke , lock , take down , pins etc.

That is what Wing Chun lacks , it has been streamlined so much and cut back to the bare bones of self defence that the only response is the nuclear option . The only thing you can do really is vary the target or the weapon you use.

The problem is in todays society of litigation etc this all or nothing approach can get you into trouble , you have to have techniques that will address the whole spectrum of mild aggression right up to extreme aggression when someone wants to kill you.

 

[dnovice]

hey guys,

Thanks for the huge response to my question? Reading some of the responses I think it is best to clarify some things before I reply to individual posts.

The weak spots I am refering to are places you can hit that have an amplified effect versus other spots. For example, a good stamp to the knee has a bigger effect on an opp than a kick to the thigh.

These weak spots are not a one shot kill spots. However, they increase the probabilty of winning; if there is no chance they create a chance.

A lot of people as was mentioned look for one shot kill tech. That is not possible. However, leverage points exist that can methodogically applied to dismantle an opp. But usually to get to these points is treacherous... It takes more courage than normal to target some of these areas.

I think as a smaller guy it will take more work and courage than usual to defeat a bigger person. It's garaunteed. You will probably get hurt but you could still come out on top if you use leverage. I leave you guys with an example.

Take any of the good gracies and analyze their way of fighting. They are not the biggest of guys but have reputation of taking down big guys through the use of leverage. They win bouts but also take a lot of punishment. It takes a lot of courage to get close enough to apply their bjj but they still get in close. Why? Because they have faith in their leverage points. They know that to win they HAVE to get to those leverage points.

 

[redantstyle]

not sure if this has been said, but i'll take a slightly different approach.

by all means, hit something soft or 'weak', with an anatomical weapon that is relatively small (for p.s.i./compression).

and more importantly, use their momentum against them.

classically, the big guy is liable to attack first, why not? he is bigger and has less to fear. it is natural for the big to attack the little.

so use a counter, but be sure to hit him as he advances, but before he settles fully forward. this way you will combine momentums and get a lot more bang for your buck.

it is using his 'strength' against him.

regards.

 

[dnovice]

I think people are making the mistake of looking for special strikes rather than focusing on what will actually bring down a big guy - hard strikes, good kicks,

As a big guy, I've been hit in the throat, hit in the solar plexus, kicked in the balls, hit in the jaw and most of them haven't phased me

If you hit hard, it truly doesn't matter where you hit the guy. Kevin Chan punched me in the sternum during a demo. It was half his power but it felt like someone had thrown a car at me

Obviously hitting someone hard in the throat causes more damage than hitting them in the sternum, but if they are a foot taller than you, you will find it hard to actually get the hit into the throat

I see students in class always trying to hit weak spots instead of keeping pressure on and working on delivering power

If you look for a specific technique, you could be waiting a long long time

Strike first, strike hard, no mercy sir!!

I partially agree with you kamon guy. It is absolutely necessary to maximize the power of ones punches and kicks. Weak strikes will only hurt you.

Where you hit is very important. I would love to see a big guy come at me with a dislocated knee. If he is on drugs and decides to hop over to me on his one good foot I'll that one a very good stamp too. Then he can crawl over. LOL.

I think you are a big guy that's why you dlont see the importance of leverage. It's not wrong not to use leverage since as a fighter you work on your weaknesses. This the reason most big guys slug it out; they have faith and trust in their size. They are right in that sense.

It is true the throat is hard to reach but there other areas. If you can't get to those areas and insist on the throat use trickery to get to it. Just be prepared to be hit hard in return. If you don't get hit fine. If you do it was a sacrifice to get the upper hand.

 

[dnovice]

Look at what geezer said:Commit it to memory if you're a little guy, then take out the knee! :asian:

My sentiments exactly.

 

[dnovice]

I agree with you Kamon , just adhere to the Wing Chun principles and learn to generate power.
Practice your stance and other basics and learn to punch hard and kick hard. As you said keep the pressure on them , hit them with a chain of techniques until they go down.

Go after them with speed and ferocity continually using your stance to press forward and keep them off balance and in a defensive posture . Alternate between hand techniques and low kicks to the shins as you go forward.

I remember one of my instructors saying to me , just remember a big guy has the same amount of skin covering his shin bone as what you do . A lot of people say yeah what happens if the guys shins are conditioned from Thai boxing , I say so what.

My shins are conditioned from taking low heel kicks to the shins for years and they still bloody hurt me and that was from classmates , I wouldn't like to take one from somebody who's been training for years and knows what they're doing and can generate real power.

The pain is excruciating , especially if they get that little spot with their heel just slightly to the inside of the shin and about an inch 1/2 below the knee cap where the nerves are. I've probably told this story before , but anyway I'll tell it again.

One morning my missus was heading off to work , it was about 6.30 am , so there she is walking to the local bus stop which is about 8 mins walk. Along the way some scumbag jumps out from behind a tree and threatens her with a knife and says to give him her hand bag.

This hero with a knife was about 6 foot and solid build , my wife is about 5 foot very slight build .She says no , he pushes her to the ground and tries to grab the bag , she won't let go of the bag. This maggot tries to slash her she puts up a Dai sau to defend and takes the slash on the outside of the forearm , from the ground she does a couple of heel kicks into his shins .

He can't take the pain and hobbles off to his getaway car and scurries back underneath whatever rock he came from. Now my wife is no Wing Chun fanatic , she only trained haphazardly for a couple of months , she prefers shopping.

But I taught her a little bit at home when I could persuade her to do it. Luckily she was able to remember some of it , she said that the bloke was definitely on something by the look of his eyes . Now what I'm saying is that she was able to make him abort the assault with her power even though she doesn't train regularly and is not really into Wing Chun .

On reflection it probably would have been better if she just gave him the bag , but she is stubborn and Japanese , descended from Samurai stock . Whats to say if she gave him the bag he wouldn't of stabbed her anyway , thats the way these pricks are these days.

She has a small scar on her forearm to remind her of the incident , and maybe somewhere in this losers drug addled mind he might remember the day he picked on a small woman who fought back and kicked the absolute crap out of his shins and made him think that maybe armed purse snatching wasn't a great way to make a living after all.

Your wife is very brave. I have a lot of respect for that.

 

[dnovice]

I just wanted to quote sun tzu ( in his book "the art of war"):

"So in war, the way is avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak."

 

[mook jong man]

Your wife is very brave. I have a lot of respect for that.

Yeah she is , a lot of people would have just handed over their wallet or bag . But my wife has got a worse temper than me , and she said that although she was scared she was mostly filled with outrage at how this bastard thought he could just walk up and demand her purse.

Luckily she got out of it with only a slash on the arm , it could have been much worse . Since that episode she now understands that she came out relatively unscathed due to the small amount of training that she had done , and now when I say how about we do some training she really gets into it .

The attack was a few years back now and she has trained pretty hard with me and taken her lumps and bruises and is just about at the level where I will teach her Chum Kiu.