Kung fu is bad for self defence

[Gerry Seymour]

You would get a more honest result if you just threw the rock.

So, you think a school that doesn't focus on fighting OR self-defense is just as likely to teach something useful as a school that teaches fighting for competition, self-defense, or something similar (and actually has it as part of their normal conversations)?

 

[Headhunter]

If I'm building a house I'd rather have to many tools than not enough

 

[jobo]

So, you think a school that doesn't focus on fighting OR self-defense is just as likely to teach something useful as a school that teaches fighting for competition, self-defense, or something similar (and actually has it as part of their normal conversations)?

yes i think you would, as for competition it depend ds on what the art is, but certainly teaching someone to fight in a style is at least as useful as teaching themself defence using a style.

just keeping using the term self defence doesn't increase its usefulness'

 

[Flying Crane]

If I'm building a house I'd rather have to many tools than not enough

Given these two options, I don't disagree.

However, what needs to be remembered is that the end goal is to build a house, not collect so many tools that we run out of storage space and they all disintegrate under rust, from lack of use.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

If I'm building a house I'd rather have to many tools than not enough

There are over 200 different throws in the throwing art. As far as I know, nobody on this planet has ever mastered all these 200 different throws. Even just the "foot sweep" category, there are over 35 different "foot sweep".

Usually, you can

- write a book with 200 techniques.
- put up a DVD with 100 techniques.
- give a workshop with 50 techniques.
- demon in the public with 20 techniques.
- fight in the street with 10 techniques.

 

[drop bear]

So, you think a school that doesn't focus on fighting OR self-defense is just as likely to teach something useful as a school that teaches fighting for competition, self-defense, or something similar (and actually has it as part of their normal conversations)?

Yes.

Stuff either works or it doesn't. Why you teach it is a lot less important.

So the MMA that trains to help vets relieve PTSD still turns out better fighters than Arakan.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

yes i think you would, as for competition it depend ds on what the art is, but certainly teaching someone to fight in a style is at least as useful as teaching themself defence using a style.

just keeping using the term self defence doesn't increase its usefulness'

That doesn't address the point. If you have three schools, and one of them doesn't claim to prepare you for defense or fighting (and the other two at least claim it), you don't know the quality of the other two, but it's a fair bet that one isn't going to be preparing you to defend or fight. Eliminating it (if combat skills are your goal) increases your chances of finding a good fit.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes.

Stuff either works or it doesn't. Why you teach it is a lot less important.

So the MMA that trains to help vets relieve PTSD still turns out better fighters than Arakan.

As I said to Jobo, the point is eliminating the least likely candidates. If a school makes no claims (nor puts any discussion about) training to fight and/or defend, it's a pretty low likelihood that school will deliver combat-ready skills. There will be exceptions, but they will be exceedingly rare. Schools that claim to deliver those skills are usually at least trying to, and that attempt makes it more likely they'll succeed. Some will be crap, for sure, but your chances are better in that subset of schools. If you only have a few to choose from, review them all. If you have 50 to choose from, focus on those that claim to deliver what you're looking for.

 

[drop bear]

As I said to Jobo, the point is eliminating the least likely candidates. If a school makes no claims (nor puts any discussion about) training to fight and/or defend, it's a pretty low likelihood that school will deliver combat-ready skills. There will be exceptions, but they will be exceedingly rare. Schools that claim to deliver those skills are usually at least trying to, and that attempt makes it more likely they'll succeed. Some will be crap, for sure, but your chances are better in that subset of schools. If you only have a few to choose from, review them all. If you have 50 to choose from, focus on those that claim to deliver what you're looking for.

When there is no requirement to deliver on a claim. The claim is basically worthless.

Now if they make a claim and deliver on it. Then you could apply your method.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

When there is no requirement to deliver on a claim. The claim is basically worthless.

Now if they make a claim and deliver on it. Then you could apply your method.

So, you think someone who doesn't plan to train for combat effectiveness is just as likely to produce effective results as someone who does? So yoga is as likely to be useful as MMA? Complete rubbish.

 

[jobo]

So, you think someone who doesn't plan to train for combat effectiveness is just as likely to produce effective results as someone who does? So yoga is as likely to be useful as MMA? Complete rubbish.

im not sure what your using as a criteria here, if a,school teaches non comp fighting, then it seems likely that going in to a comp will leave you short handed,

there is no difference between a school that teaches you say karate as a method of fighting and one that teaches karate as a means,of self defence. If its some kata only school you mean then yes you have a point,

 

[Gerry Seymour]

im not sure what your using as a criteria here, if a,school teaches non comp fighting, then it seems likely that going in to a comp will leave you short handed,

there is no difference between a school that teaches you say karate as a method of fighting and one that teaches karate as a means,of self defence. If its some kata only school you mean then yes you have a point,

I wasn't differentiating between those two. I was differentiating between those two and schools that don't intend to teach for either purpose. That was the point originally made by Juany. Somehow, you've wandered off into discussions of competition prep and the effectiveness of the term "self-defense".

 

[JR 137]

I'll use my wrestling experience here instead of my karate experience, simply because I had far more wrestling matches than fights (meaning I've used wrestling against far more resisting "opponents" than actual fights where my karate training came into play)...

We learned a ton of techniques in wrestling. Learning that many things did two things that stood out to me as I got more experience:

1) When someone used the technique against me, it wasn't something new that I had no idea could/would happen. I didn't fall for something incredibly simple to counter/defend because I had seen it before. Case in point - early on in my career I was pinned by a guy who used a move called a spladle. I'd never seen it and didn't know what happened until it was too late. It's very easy to counter, if you've seen it before - when down on the mat, switch from a single leg to a double when you feel your opponent reaching for your leg. Learning that move that I'd never use (and so many others) taught me to defend it.

2) I used very, very few of the moves I was taught consistently. Everyone's built differently and thinks differently, therefore they'll have different things that will and won't work for them. But there were a lot of instances that I successfully used a move that I'd never used in a match before and never used again simply because the opening was there at that moment.

If I never bothered with anything that didn't work for me in training, I'd have been beaten far more often by them, and I wouldn't have been able to use them during any of those times where it was the only time I used it (and there were a lot of them).

Figuring this out came from several years of experience. Everything you do makes a difference. It could be just as much of learning to defend it as it could be actually using it without thinking about it that one time where it's your best option.