Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
Xue Sheng said:
Don't be sorry!! It was a legitimate question. The thread got misdirected, but your question is good, and this could be a good discussion.
Kosho Shorei Ryu
- Thread starter Xue Sheng
- Start date
Don't be sorry!! It was a legitimate question. The thread got misdirected, but your question is good, and this could be a good discussion.
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
kenpojujitsu said:
you make a lot of accusations with nothing to back it up.
to be truthful, you dont sound like you know a whole lot about kosho or mitose......because a lot of the drivel you're passing off, no one in the skski states any of it........not that i know of anyway.
whats your lineage to mitose?
if he is such an embarrassment, why even mention it?
he never passed himself off as a catholic priest......jeez
you're just another one of the malcontents that spews off about something that they have no idea about.
K
kenpojujitsu
Guest
Flying Crane said:
yes, there is no need to be sorry. It was a legit question and you basically got a good answer.
At that school you will likely learn good self defense. If that is all you are looking for then this might be a good school for you. Check it out.
You just need to know that you will hear a lot of nonsense about Mitose.
He was a decent martial artist. Not great, but actually pretty good.
As a person, he was a scoundrel and an outcast who died in prison. he was loan shark and an extortionist who ordered one his students to kill a man and his wife who stopped making payments to him. He never "passed himself off as a catholic priest", he just war the clothes of a catholic priest as he pretended to be some kind of a mystic Japanese monk from a lost temple in Japan. The information is out there in other sources.
kelly keltner
Black Belt
WOWkenpojujitsu said:
kroh
Brown Belt
Xue Sheng,
I have been training since I was a kid and I am now in my thirties. I am niether a kung fu mAsTaH nor some huge schollar (As evident in my spelling). I have recently begun training in the Kosho Ryu and I can give you a non-politcal evaluation from a newbie.
Since I have been there (two months) they basically assesed my skill level in the martial arts (as it was pretty evident I could walk and chew gum at the same time...but had trouble rubbing my head too). Once they had a feel for me, I pretty much was just given over to the rest of the class. The majority of the people that are training in the system also train in other martial arts. I haven't met anyone who, "only trains in kosho."
The class is not taught as a standardized class that you might find in some of the Americanized Kenpo systems out there. It has a different flavor to it and if you are interested in very structured training I would recomend something else (American Kenpo has some great stuff where everything builds on what came before). One day you could be training how to attack and the next day you could be working on how to relate attacks and defenses to using weapons (or apart from). History (both Japanese and of the system in general) plays a part in the training as does understanding how to relay the terminology in Japanese. This has been taught so far in a way so that even those with no exposure to Japanese or their culture isn't overwhelmed.
A usual class begins with something to get the juices warm (Such as ukemi waza, or calling out terminology and the students trying to relate the movment with the correct Japanese term). After that a certain principle of movement or defense might be decided on for the day and then worked to ad nauseum. One thing I have noticed about the kosho training so far (and I like this about them) is that you don't work a series of 5 to ten techniques that have nothing to do with each other for five minutes a pop and then spar with none of the techniques that you trained for the night. The classes build on an over-riding principle used in different ways. For example, the other night we were working using joint manipulations as off balancing techniques. The class started with ukemi. We then went into basic locks. After that we used the locks in various situations from different positions (across the octagon, a pattern prevalent in the training). We then put the lock into context to find it in the midst of an attack (atemi inserts were a lot of fun when doing this). Next came trying to get the takedown or off balance manuever against a resisting opponent. Class over...hour and a half goes by like that.
Certain mental aspects are also a part of the training. The system revolves heavily around the use of an octagon pattern for teaching it's principles. Philosphies of combat range the gamut from escaping situations to attacking using some pretty complex geometry allowing your attacker to beat themselves up (using your fist of course). The use of Japanese terminology is prevalent throughout the training as is learning things like reiki (ettiquette, Japanese style) and the manerisms and layout of Japanese dojo. The teachers where I am training are very relaxed individuals ("Sensei, are we starting class soon...?" --- "Relax bud...class will start when it starts...anyone got any coffee?"). They are personable and interested in teaching the principles of the art. Everyone is approachable. Good class.
I would characterize the system as a soft style that uses tai sabiki (body position) and atemi/kuzushi (striking / unbalancing) to off balance an opponent so you can either escape (the primary goal) control (so you can calm him down or leave) or clock (nothing says loveing like blasting a guy's lights out). I am having fun with it as I went their to learn to utilize their footwork and am coming away with many more useful principles. I would recomend taking the martial art (if you have trained in Chinese styles this is not that far of a strecth ) and staying out of the politics behind it.
Regards,
Walt
I have been training since I was a kid and I am now in my thirties. I am niether a kung fu mAsTaH nor some huge schollar (As evident in my spelling). I have recently begun training in the Kosho Ryu and I can give you a non-politcal evaluation from a newbie.
Since I have been there (two months) they basically assesed my skill level in the martial arts (as it was pretty evident I could walk and chew gum at the same time...but had trouble rubbing my head too). Once they had a feel for me, I pretty much was just given over to the rest of the class. The majority of the people that are training in the system also train in other martial arts. I haven't met anyone who, "only trains in kosho."
The class is not taught as a standardized class that you might find in some of the Americanized Kenpo systems out there. It has a different flavor to it and if you are interested in very structured training I would recomend something else (American Kenpo has some great stuff where everything builds on what came before). One day you could be training how to attack and the next day you could be working on how to relate attacks and defenses to using weapons (or apart from). History (both Japanese and of the system in general) plays a part in the training as does understanding how to relay the terminology in Japanese. This has been taught so far in a way so that even those with no exposure to Japanese or their culture isn't overwhelmed.
A usual class begins with something to get the juices warm (Such as ukemi waza, or calling out terminology and the students trying to relate the movment with the correct Japanese term). After that a certain principle of movement or defense might be decided on for the day and then worked to ad nauseum. One thing I have noticed about the kosho training so far (and I like this about them) is that you don't work a series of 5 to ten techniques that have nothing to do with each other for five minutes a pop and then spar with none of the techniques that you trained for the night. The classes build on an over-riding principle used in different ways. For example, the other night we were working using joint manipulations as off balancing techniques. The class started with ukemi. We then went into basic locks. After that we used the locks in various situations from different positions (across the octagon, a pattern prevalent in the training). We then put the lock into context to find it in the midst of an attack (atemi inserts were a lot of fun when doing this). Next came trying to get the takedown or off balance manuever against a resisting opponent. Class over...hour and a half goes by like that.
Certain mental aspects are also a part of the training. The system revolves heavily around the use of an octagon pattern for teaching it's principles. Philosphies of combat range the gamut from escaping situations to attacking using some pretty complex geometry allowing your attacker to beat themselves up (using your fist of course). The use of Japanese terminology is prevalent throughout the training as is learning things like reiki (ettiquette, Japanese style) and the manerisms and layout of Japanese dojo. The teachers where I am training are very relaxed individuals ("Sensei, are we starting class soon...?" --- "Relax bud...class will start when it starts...anyone got any coffee?"). They are personable and interested in teaching the principles of the art. Everyone is approachable. Good class.
I would characterize the system as a soft style that uses tai sabiki (body position) and atemi/kuzushi (striking / unbalancing) to off balance an opponent so you can either escape (the primary goal) control (so you can calm him down or leave) or clock (nothing says loveing like blasting a guy's lights out). I am having fun with it as I went their to learn to utilize their footwork and am coming away with many more useful principles. I would recomend taking the martial art (if you have trained in Chinese styles this is not that far of a strecth ) and staying out of the politics behind it.
Regards,
Walt
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
excellent description, Walt!
There is definitely a method with Kosho, but it is a more difficult art to learn and to be able to utilize (kind of what you hear people say about aikido).
I only train in Kosho.
There is definitely a method with Kosho, but it is a more difficult art to learn and to be able to utilize (kind of what you hear people say about aikido).
I only train in Kosho.
K
kenpojujitsu
Guest
Xue Sheng said:
And it is a good general description of the ideas and methods of most of the arts that grew up in Hawaii and are now generically referred to as Kenpo Jujitsu. The blending of the early Karate/Kenpo from Okinawa with the the Chinese and other Japanese arts that had been on the islands for decades and perhaps centuries.
jujutsu_indonesia
Black Belt
Xue Sheng said:
I have seen some videos of Mr. Bruce Juchnik showing Kosho-ryu. This is very interesting system. I don't think it is like other Karate I have seen. It has many throwing techniques and Mr. Juchnik is so effortless at doing them. I think it's more Jujutsu or even Aikido than Karate. Very elegant.
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
jujutsu_indonesia said:
this is a good observation.
BlackCatBonz
Master Black Belt
Xue Sheng said:
do you know if the school is under sei kosho shorei kai?
OP
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Probably, I apologize; being new to the site I did not realize that there was a section specifically for Kempo/Kenpo. After I realized that there was I did put this question in that section and it had little response.
Also, being trained mainly in Chinese styles, and not being trained in Karate, I did not realize that Kempo/Kenpo Karate was different than Karate. I thought that if it was a Ryu it was similar.
I did try to see if there was a way of deleting the thread, once I found the Kempo section.
Also, being trained mainly in Chinese styles, and not being trained in Karate, I did not realize that Kempo/Kenpo Karate was different than Karate. I thought that if it was a Ryu it was similar.
I did try to see if there was a way of deleting the thread, once I found the Kempo section.
The thread is already 3 pages long but if you all think it should be in general or kenpo i'm will to move it
OP
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
I originated this thread, and I acknowledged my error, and although though the first part of the thread is taken up by an argument about Mitose, 3 pages later I see no reason to move it.
Since I also put this same thread under Kempo and got, by comparison, virtual no response, it would seem to me that this is the place for it.
Also I was under the impression that Kempo was a type of Karate
Since I also put this same thread under Kempo and got, by comparison, virtual no response, it would seem to me that this is the place for it.
Also I was under the impression that Kempo was a type of Karate
kroh
Brown Belt
Karate-Do (the way of the empty or China hand) is a pretty area specific term refering the martial arts of the Ryukyu islands (Okinawa). It is used to describe these fighting arts much like Jujutsu is used for the fighting arts of Japan. These terms are usually area and time period specific. The problems come in when people with no real understanding for the language or culture start using those terms for things that, in actuallity, have nothing to do with what they say it does. It only serves to prove that the term "Lazy American" isn't that far of a stretch for most of us.
The term Kempo is a general term that can either mean boxing or in general fighting arts (the way of the fist or the fist method). Other terms that can be used include bugei or kogusoku.
Did you actually check out the Kosho class?
Regards,
Walt
The term Kempo is a general term that can either mean boxing or in general fighting arts (the way of the fist or the fist method). Other terms that can be used include bugei or kogusoku.
Did you actually check out the Kosho class?
Regards,
Walt
OP
OP
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
kroh said:
I have more understanding of the language and the culture than you know. I apologize if I offended you by my possible improper usage that was not my intension.
But I based my definition on the following,
Karate - (lit Empty Hand) The Okinawan form of self-defense that was introduced to Japan in the early 20th century. Today there are countless most of which trace their roots to one or two traditional Okinawan lineages of Karate-jitsu, Shuri-te and Naha-te. (Tuttle Dictionary of Martial Arts)
And the fact that I generally see Kempo/Kenpo and Karate used interchangeably. I admit I did not research that further to see if that was correct or not. If for no other reason than that I suppose I could be referred to as a "Lazy American"
However this lead me to believe that Kempo/Kenpo comes from Karate much the same way Chen Style Tai chi came from Zhang San Feng. But I could be wrong in this assumption.
Also a Japanese style such as Karate-jitsu is fundamentally different than Karate-do
"Jitsu" is a war art were a "do" is not
Also, if my memory serves me correctly Kempo and Kenpo, although the same, one is a Japanese translation were the other is Chinese.
As for the class, no I have not yet checked it out. Life became incredibly busy in the last few weeks with no sign of letting up soon.
But with that being said, I have decided that sense my original question about Kosho Shorei Ryu started a fight between two people about the Character of James Mitose, and this seems to be degenerating into a fight about Karate not being Kempo/Kenpo, I would like to request, if this is possible, to have this thread closed.
I am looking to learn, not fight. Fighting is easy; conversation is, apparently, hard.
Also for anyone interested I recently found this site
Sei Kosho Shorei Kai International
http://www.collectivesociety.com/skski/index.html
It appears to have a lot of information that I have been looking for.
Thank you to all that gave me informat
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