Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo

[John Bishop]

I think the answer to both questions is in the name "Kosho Shorei Ryu."

The name was made up by Mitose to give clues to where it came from. The reason that monks descendants cannot be found is because the art they practice is not called that in Japan.

My opinion only.

"Shorei Ryu" is a common Okinawan system. But your saying that there is a "Kosho Shorei Ryu Kenpo" style practiced in Japan? And it's lineage goe's back to the Mitose's family temple?

 

[John Bishop]

Alvin, isn't it? Used to run a record store in LA?

Alvin is actually the youngest of the 3 legitimate son's. He and his older brother were son's of James and Dorothy (Ogata) Mitose. Thomas Barro Mitose is the son of James and Mildred Mitose. James also has a few illegitimate children in Hawaii.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

just a side note john.....great website!

shawn

 

[John Bishop]

just a side note john.....great website!

shawn

Thanks

 

[GAB]

Hi,
Keep it coming I am learning stuff I never knew. Alvin? Who would of thought? Mildred, are we talking Japanese? Sounds like they fully blended?
If Mitose was a monk he sure didnt act like one. LOL, on either side of the bed.:uhyeah:
Fusae Oshita, Masaichi Oshiro, now those are names I can relate to.:idunno:

I thought monks in Japan were outcasts the family did not respect that and since the family was pretty much everything (Shinto), I know 21st generation and all that but I am getting a feeling that maybe some of this should be asked of Masters Thomas and Adriano, someone is holding and Ace?:idunno:

I just read an article that said, when Bruce Lee called his art JKD, a name he put togeather, he got so much bad feed back, that he wished he never came up with the name.

I was under the impression the name, was in the name (within), Like Dave said.

Regards, Gary:ultracool

 

[The Kai]

just a side note john.....great website!

shawn

Side Note #2 - Do you sell T-shirts still?
Todd

 

[GAB]

Hi,
I was just going to add, when you are aquired (taken in war) as a country and become one with the country that has taken you hostage and changed your culture, are you with that country? Are, do you still remain a single enity and never give in?(like the IRA) just one that comes to mind...

Ok, now we need to accept that the arts came from China, Okinawa, Japan, Hawaii, Filipino, Korean and a little mixture of good old boxing, if it came from Tai or USA?

Maternal, comes from the mothers side, Paternal comes from the fathers side, so if you are not sure of the one you come from? Are you able to pick and choose? Or switch when you feel like it?

When you see a name with an ending with an i, is it masculine in Japan or is the name that ends with an o, or an a? Is there any connection like there is in the Romance languages, especially after the Jesuits came to Asia?

What if you were to spell the word, with an i rather than an o does it still stay with the root name?

If we want to go there, it becomes obvious does it not?

Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

Hi John, How about the Kajukenbo books that are in spanish only...

If they are avaliable I would like a few. Talk about interesting, the way things are going in CA. Does Sijo speak spanish? Being from the Filipino Islands.

Here I thought that we won the War with the powers of Mejico, someone has not acquiesced of late.:idunno:

Regards, Gary:asian:

 

[Karazenpo]

prof joe.....are you going to be upset at either outcome of this story when it finally comes to pass? all of us that have our roots in kem(n)po as far as what is traced back to mitose could just be a lot of bull.........and to some people, i think that would suck big time. does that mean all of our rankings mean nothing? not in my book, because i think as a collective group we have stumbled onto something wonderful. notice i didnt use the word "create"? it is all out there waiting to be discovered, like the mysteries of life or the universe.

i totally agree with your standpoint of being a purely historical point of veiw, as i am a huge fan of historical study. but it wasnt until last year when i realised there was such animosity between the different systems......and you must admit its there.....
i didnt even want to study kempo anymore just to get away from all the crap i heard.
but alas.......i love the current teaching and what it stands for, history be damned....lol
and thats why i keep coming back.....the process, the study.

respectfully

shawn bailey

Hey Shawn, Actually, I hope it comes out that Mitose went to Japan, that his claims are based on some truth. I sincerely mean that. I believed it for years. I've posted it and answered as such when my students or others asked about our history. Like I stated in an earlier post, I still have it up on my wall at the school (see post#95). To be honest though, right now it doesn't seem this is so and as far as I know and I hope I'm mistaken, he never left Hawaii. Shawn, if you read my other posts you will see I feel a little differently than some of the others outside your system in regards to Mitose. Most, if not all pioneers in our related lineages of the Hawaiian derived Kenpo didn't have 'extensive' backgrounds in the arts when they went off and founded their own systems simply because it wasn't like that then. There were no vast curriculum, kenpo was newly introduced so they took the rudiments, worked the hell out of them and backed it up with hardcore training methods that few could stick with-the end result? A lineage of legendary tough as nails street fighters, not point sparrers or kata champions but reality fighters! I say: Nothing wrong with that and as I have said before: Mitose planted the seed that was nurtured and cultivated by others that evolved into some of the most practical and functional self defense systems in the world today. If it is released and proven as fact he never left Hawaii then this is how I see it. Mitose had some exposure, probably much to Professor Henry S. Okazaki's Danzan Ryu Jui Jitsu and he also studied Okinawan Shorei Ryu Kempo Karate through Nabura Tanamaha of the Choki Motobu lineage. Did he get his black belt? It seems not according to what I have been privy too. Do I have a problem with that? NO, because do you know how many others that came after him started their own thing and were not black belts? Back then the black belt too was recently intorduced in karate type styles. Wasn't it the Okinawans who decided to rank Funakoshi as a 5th degree black belt and hense start the belt ranking system around 1922? Did Matsumura or Itosu have a black belt? I have no problem with Mitose taking what he learned in Okinawan Kenpo and most likely throwing in some Danzan ryu adding his own perspective thus putting his own 'spin' on it and calling it, Shorinji Kenpo, then Kenpo Jui Jitsu, Kosho ryu Kenpo and then finally Kosho Shorei ryu Kenpo! I just wish we weren't misleaded. I also can seperate the criminal from the martial artist and his positive contributions and I totally feel as theTracys have stated: No Mitose-No Kenpo, not as we know it today anyway! However, I have to totally agree with John Bishop that, and I'll put it in my own words, it turns my stomach when I hear Kosho people referring to James Mitsoe as 'a man of peace', that's just plain B.S. and I think you would agree with me on that. So, Shawn, I am more with you than you think and I give credit when it's due but I just can't see hanging on to myths and misinformation any longer. Let's all have the truth, be it good or bad. Sincerely, Professor Joe Shuras

 

[GAB]

Hi,

I have to go along with the FMA Classic on this thought, about, if you have a belt or a cert.:jedi1:

If you advertise it you had better be ready for someone to walk in and challenge you to a duel. Choki and Gichin, knock you on your back side not once but three times, (so the story goes).:mp5:

Of course we are a different society and dueling has been dropped when Hamilton was dropped, by Burr. We do go back to that, wirh a different thought, like the Civil War, that was a major duel. Wyatt Earp comes to mind, later on.:flame:

Now look at the dualism within a religion of the masses today, so we are still within that thought pattern.

Now you are teaching a class and another group of Martial Artist's comes in your door and challenges you, what do you do??? Call the police? Will you lose the respect of your students? Some probabley? Will they leave? Will someone go to jail or be fined? Is it worth it? Does it happen today? :idunno:

Did everyone in the time of Choki and Gichin and then Mitose have belts??

Different time, and does it matter? I don't think so, since it doesn't matter to others who came after and started their art? :ultracool

By the way it still does happen, Chinatown and other places come to mind. North Hollywood in the late 50's, then in Hollywood in the middle 60's... How about Los Angeles, in the 70's? Nixon flashing the peace sign in the the 70's, Well, you get the idea? Or not?:idunno: love these smilies.....:jedi1:

Regards, Gary:asian:

Are the Martial Arts synonymous with peace?:idunno: I am sure you will agree if you are a peace keeper or a thug.

 

[kelly keltner]

Alvin, isn't it? Used to run a record store in LA?

nope try again

 

[kelly keltner]

First of all, Gary, John is RIGHT! No disrespect from anyone, just one helluva good debate! Yeah, there were a few misunderstandings but we cleared them up. I'm not upset with anyone's opinion, this is just getting good! lol. Okay, kelly, No, that is not the name. I have the name and so does John but I don't know as of yet if I can release it. Please believe me, I'm not playing games but I just have to check with Professor Abregana first, you know, sometimes you talk in confidence and I can't betray that trust but I will ask. However, now I have another question. If the Kosho ryu 'powers to be' are leveling with you with this information than how come you don't have Mitose's real name and we do? Kell, I'm not bust'n balls, I'm just trying to make a point, there's something wrong with this picture. I honestly do have the name and it's nothing close to what you posted.

No Joe it just means you may are privy to info either correct or incorrect that we may not have that's ok. The powers that be have their own projects pertaining to the info we have. I'd put money on the fact that "the powers that be are leveling with me "
at this point I am kind of in the same situation as you in I can't betray trust due to projects in the works. I don't worry to much about when it will come out because it will come out. Like I said I don't worry much about whether or not Mitose went to Japan. I look forward to the A&E special. What's wrong with this picture is that we all seem to be putting together a picture that stretches back almost a century peices don't always fit together in the neatest manner. It is possible mitose never went to Japan it is also possible he came and went more than once. It is possible that he used an alias. All these things are possible. But what facts fit where might be hard to say. It's Ok Joe I have had my balls busted before. It aint a big deal.


kelly

 

[BlackCatBonz]

re: post149

hi prof joe
i do agree with you. but im not or have i ever referred to him as a man of peace or anything else, and by my own nature im a skeptic. BUT.......as far as the book "what is self defense?" he talks about a lot of principles i believe in personally, whether he had adhered to those principles himself, or not. i have been a student of the buddhist religion and philosophy since i was a teenager......8 years before i ever decided to study martial arts. My friends would be the first to tell you that the one trait i hold above all others is honesty.......so yes i am hoping that the accounts he gave are an honest representation of what really happened.......and if not, that doesnt mean that i dont believe in the principles and lessons of peace being taught in kosho2004. i want to believe that we are brothers and sisters in our journey, and above all else, there to help our fellow man.

respectfully

shawn bailey

 

[Karazenpo]

Hey Shawn & Kelly, Yeah, Kell, I follow and what the hell, we all busted each other's balls a little with that 'bone' thing but it was all in fun. Shawn, I know you didn't equate Mitose to that man of peace and man of God thing but I'm sure you'll agree many in Kosho do. I think with the actual court evidence and all the 'facts' in the case that have since come forward, we have to put that one to rest once and for all-he was a criminal, a violent man and no way a man of peace. The rest....I'll stay open to until all the facts are in. Fair enough?

 

[kelly keltner]

Hey Shawn & Kelly, Yeah, Kell, I follow and what the hell, we all busted each other's balls a little with that 'bone' thing but it was all in fun. Shawn, I know you didn't equate Mitose to that man of peace and man of God thing but I'm sure you'll agree many in Kosho do. I think with the actual court evidence and all the 'facts' in the case that have since come forward, we have to put that one to rest once and for all-he was a criminal, a violent man and no way a man of peace. The rest....I'll stay open to until all the facts are in. Fair enough?

Don't sweat it. Ain't a big deal.
Yeah Mitose would preach peace. He just seemed to have a problem practicing what he preached.


kelly

 

[BlackCatBonz]

Hey Shawn & Kelly, Yeah, Kell, I follow and what the hell, we all busted each other's balls a little with that 'bone' thing but it was all in fun. Shawn, I know you didn't equate Mitose to that man of peace and man of God thing but I'm sure you'll agree many in Kosho do. I think with the actual court evidence and all the 'facts' in the case that have since come forward, we have to put that one to rest once and for all-he was a criminal, a violent man and no way a man of peace. The rest....I'll stay open to until all the facts are in. Fair enough?

hey prof joe
i couldnt help but notice that you put the "facts" in quotations.....im not busting your balls, but could you comment on that?

shawn

 

[Karazenpo]

hey prof joe
i couldnt help but notice that you put the "facts" in quotations.....im not busting your balls, but could you comment on that?

shawn

Hi Shawn, sure, no problem. 'Facts' as in the court transcripts (which I have), 'facts of the trial and conviction' and I also have a copy of an evaluation from his probation officer.

 

[GAB]

Hi guys,
I think one of the things you can count on in a court of law anymore is that all the facts don't come in.:idunno:

Might be if we were more inclined to pursue the law of Justice, rather then the law of making it a case of plea bargain, or motivated by which you can make the most headlines with, or pick a jury that is ignorant or not your peers.:idunno: Venue is another situation that cracks me up.

I know all in the name of justice. Does that mean that in CA we will get more justice then in LA where we have two different systems in the USofA.
The north and the south, the east and the west?

Is that why we try them in the state and the fed all in the name of justice?

How about where you fine a man based on his earnings rather then on the idea that we are all equal in the eyes of the law.

See we can bring up the pros and cons it is just who you are trying to convince on the 12 person jury, 10 to convict 2 to acquit what happens now?

I just wish we could get it together, but we can't, so lets understand that.

If we will remember, Johnny Cochran was the attorney for Terry Lee, so we can be sure of one thing, the facts did not come in, and the man is brilliant when it comes to defense.

Not really my view of what is honest in the court room but we could argue that till the cows fail to make it home.:jedi1: :mp5: :flame:

Regards, Gary:uhyeah:

 

[Karazenpo]

Hi guys,
I think one of the things you can count on in a court of law anymore is that all the facts don't come in.:idunno:

Might be if we were more inclined to pursue the law of Justice, rather then the law of making it a case of plea bargain, or motivated by which you can make the most headlines with, or pick a jury that is ignorant or not your peers.:idunno: Venue is another situation that cracks me up.

I know all in the name of justice. Does that mean that in CA we will get more justice then in LA where we have two different systems in the USofA.
The north and the south, the east and the west?

Is that why we try them in the state and the fed all in the name of justice?

How about where you fine a man based on his earnings rather then on the idea that we are all equal in the eyes of the law.

See we can bring up the pros and cons it is just who you are trying to convince on the 12 person jury, 10 to convict 2 to acquit what happens now?

I just wish we could get it together, but we can't, so lets understand that.

If we will remember, Johnny Cochran was the attorney for Terry Lee, so we can be sure of one thing, the facts did not come in, and the man is brilliant when it comes to defense.

Not really my view of what is honest in the court room but we could argue that till the cows fail to make it home.:jedi1: :mp5: :flame:

Regards, Gary:uhyeah:

Well, all I can say is that in my opinion he was guilty and I guess twelve other people that I never met agreed also!

 

[Karazenpo]

Quote from Kelly: "Yeah Mitose would preach peace. He just seemed to have a problem practicing what he preached."


Kelly, I think you hit the nail on the head! Agreed.