Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo

[GAB]

Hi Kai,
He was there in his formative years, evough that he had a hard time learning the english language, When he was in his teens he went back to Hawaii.
Regards, Gary

 

[BlackCatBonz]

prof joe.......i really sense some bitter hostility towards the students of kosho, and i ask myself.....where does it come from. you have all this talk about titles and rankings, and i mean no disrespect when i say this, but if those titles are the result of a lying cheating conman with a story far outliving his life....why should we put any creedence into them, as you show none for us. this does not seem to be in the spirit of learning and teaching, and frankly it scares me when people feel this way and are teaching others war arts.

any kosho student i talk to studies the art for the art, not all the BS. and you will never hear me bashing anyone. too many people are living in the past, and getting caught up in it. i think its a safe bet to say that as kosho students in 2004 we are being taught something a bit more than punching, kicking, and putting the hurt into people. many martial arts teachers preach about kindness and respect and "seeing the good in man"......but get them away from the dojo and that all changes.....then human nature reveals its ugly head. As people living together in the world you would think we would practice some of what we try to instill into the students that look to us for guidance, i for one would be embarrassed to have any student of mine read some of the things that are said.

are we really that worried about rank? is it really about respect? are we so willing to throw our lessons out the window and come across as schmucks?
im not.....i want to learn and give back........ive been given a gift, that I in turn must give back. and while giving it back i will not turn to the man or men that gave it to me and slap them in the face.

respectfully,
shawn bailey

 

[John Bishop]

I think for the most part we have been trying to discuss history here. So why would anyone want to teach history that they know is probably false? It's almost like they want to convince their students that their history is something more special and spiritual ("a temple art") then other arts, and their headmaster (who was in reality a career criminal) was a spiritual man with many virtues.

I will ask 2 more simple questions:
James Mitose claimed that his temple once trained over 200 monks.
So where are the martial arts descendants of these 200 monks?
And why is there no Kosho Ryu Kenpo practiced anywhere in Japan?

 

[GAB]

Hi Professor,

I think the official word is going to come out pretty soon but it will be by Hanshi Bruce himself.

He does not put much stock in the web and the flaming that goes on and the constant bickering. :whip:

The Gathering for this year will be at the end of the month, I think he will probably give out the information then.

Different strokes for different folks, I think he looks at it like hearsay, if he does it at a formal Gathering or to a credited news person (media) it is better.

I think Kell will go into it more, since he has been explaining it to me just today.

Now back to the idea of proof, if a road has been traveled on many times who is to say it is not the right one. If you don't agree on the placement of the road or where it fits into the city planners idea, it is up to you to change it.

I remember a while back I saw a trickle of malcontent and no one addressed it much. I talked to Hanshi and he said to me "beware of the nit pickers" he has used that term since GM Mitose said that to him in his visits.

Gary don't worry, I have been dealing with this going on 25 years, I just work hard and keep going. It is not something I worry about.

I said, how about I do something to get it to the surface, It has been festering and I see it coming to a head to mess with the seminar.

He said you mean the "Gathering"? I said, yes, he smiled and said "I have been putting on these gatherings for a long time, I don't think it matters to the people who know me." I appreciate your thoughts but if you want to do it or not it won't make any difference, spend your time training and learning what you are after.... So I am, and here I am and that is the reason I started this thread. :flame:

Not much else has been said about it until recently, I told him I was still stirring, he laughed, OK, you do what you have to do, and I will do what I need to do, which is get ready for the Gathering.

So here we are, I am not saying that is the perfect word for word, but it is close as I remember it. :idunno:

If you asked Hanshi he probably would say, Gary said something I am not sure, Gary asks a lot of questions and then would laugh.

He would love to put it to rest, he thought he had, but it just keeps coming back every decade or so. It is always in the smoldering stage, but it goes into a flame and then is quenched. The next group comes along and on and on.:jedi1: :mp5:

I think you will see it wet down pretty good this time. IMHO..

Regards, Gary:asian:

 

[BlackCatBonz]

I think for the most part we have been trying to discuss history here. So why would anyone want to teach history that they know is probably false? It's almost like they want to convince their students that their history is something more special and spiritual ("a temple art") then other arts, and their headmaster (who was in reality a career criminal) was a spiritual man with many virtues.

I will ask 2 more simple questions:
James Mitose claimed that his temple once trained over 200 monks.
So where are the martial arts descendants of these 200 monks?
And why is there no Kosho Ryu Kenpo practiced anywhere in Japan?

i think the claim is 400 monks.
after Konishi had the temple destroyed the arts were passed on in secret. which goes right along with japanese history. the shogunate at the time outlawed the practice of martial arts by monks because they were a threat to political power.
and its not uncommon for a martial art to be handed down to family members only, as we all know

shawn

 

[John Bishop]

i think the claim is 400 monks.
after Konishi had the temple destroyed the arts were passed on in secret. which goes right along with japanese history. the shogunate at the time outlawed the practice of martial arts by monks because they were a threat to political power.
and its not uncommon for a martial art to be handed down to family members only, as we all know

shawn

Boy that's a stretch. You mean the abandoned Shaka in temple that still exists at Mt. Kinkai is a reproduction? Mitose was born in 1916, long after the end of the Shogun era.
Your story sounds surprizingly like the Shaolin Temple story. Burn't down temple, martial arts practice by monks outlawed. It appears that the Shaolin story is true, but yet there in no problem finding Shaolin Kung Fu in China, or anywhere else in the world.

 

[The Kai]

Hi Kai,
He was there in his formative years, evough that he had a hard time learning the english language, When he was in his teens he went back to Hawaii.
Regards, Gary

Sure, he was born in Hawaii though? How many of his formative yrs did he spend in Japan??

 

[GAB]

Hi Kai,
You use the term Sure. May I ask how you are using that?
Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

Boy that's a stretch. You mean the abandoned Shaka in temple that still exists at Mt. Kinkai is a reproduction? Mitose was born in 1916, long after the end of the Shogun era.
Your story sounds surprizingly like the Shaolin Temple story. Burn't down temple, martial arts practice by monks outlawed. It appears that the Shaolin story is true, but yet there in no problem finding Shaolin Kung Fu in China, or anywhere else in the world.

Hi John, I have often thought about that, reacurring story. I am of the opinion that there was fire and destruction. Rebuilding etc. Kinda like in the old west, where many towns burned down (all or part) rebuilt and continue or move on and build somewhere else.
Good question though(regarding the followers),
Maybe they were purged during the war years?
It will be interesting to find out, I wish I was able to finalize it, but I am not. (don't have all the facts etc) Could go back to what you are saying conman, some of the story is true, other parts prefabricated. (similar to the book he published in the late 40's and early 50's).

His sister was part of the book, did anyone ever talk to her?

Like I said last night I guess we will have to wait for a little bit, until Hanshi wants to put the information out at the "Gathering".

In the mean time is there any that disproves it?

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Hi Kai,
You use the term Sure. May I ask how you are using that?
Regards, Gary

Sure as in "OK" or "right" ???? Does that answer yopur question?
Todd

 

[GAB]

Hi Kai,

I myself, wonder if the person who, left (hawaii) came back, or ended up in prison is the same, very nice looking young man, I would think they had fingerprints, but:idunno:.

Formative, early part of his child hood, by some standard younger then thought at the time he was moving around.

Can we say Japan was in a very long period of war 1901 until 1945? In one place or another. Some of the worst atrocities have been attributed to them long before that time and certainly during that time.

So if one is brought up in that type of culture are we to hold them to standards later placed on them by a culture very much different? Yes, and it could have been why, he was not given the death penalty.:idunno:

Not knowing all the facts and probably never will (but am trying, just for the truth of it), I am sure (used differently) we will find out more now that the computer age is in and more infomation is available and given out, for one reason or another. (agenda comes to mind)

Regards, Gary

 

[The Kai]

Right, so assuming Mitose was'nt replaced by a duplicate - How long was he in Japan.

IMHO - almost every culture country bans, prohibs or outlaws murder. What happens in a War is not the normal arc of that particular civalization. As we know it (at least with the facts at hand) Mitose was'nt part of either factions war efforts - So why would athe atrocities affect(or danmage) his reasoning? Please forgive my spelling and grammer I am not a writer by any strech of the imagination
Todd

 

[GAB]

Hi Kai,

I was just going to kiss you off, since you are not listening to me, but I don't really want that feeling.

:ultracool I wasn't privy to the information until a few minutes ago. I made a phone call since you were so persistant and no one else is talking (they must be savoring this information and are gloating about it)...:supcool:
When I became as persistant as you, I got more information to share, so I will say, *thank you* for your persistance. It helped, since I am out here by myself, it appears...:whip:

I just heard a few minutes before I started this post, that the Juchnik camp has government documents (USA) that validify his (Mitose) claim to being in Japan.

The time frame as I understand is approx. 15 to 17 years give or take, if that was continuously I am not sure. So that is all I know. :idunno:

Further posts regarding this particular, you might want to ask Kell.

If you want to share with me please do. :asian:

Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

Right, so assuming Mitose was'nt replaced by a duplicate - How long was he in Japan.

IMHO - almost every culture country bans, prohibs or outlaws murder. What happens in a War is not the normal arc of that particular civalization. As we know it (at least with the facts at hand) Mitose was'nt part of either factions war efforts - So why would athe atrocities affect(or danmage) his reasoning? Please forgive my spelling and grammer I am not a writer by any strech of the imagination
Todd

:mp5:

Todd, I am looking at your postion 5th, This is what you purport.

Now if you don't understand and fail to comprehend the influence on someone from or with the up bringing (age especially) of that particular culture (prior to our intervention, USA). I can't help you any further.

Last but not least, I think he was a spy (double)...:idunno: I also believe he was a paid informant for years in the USA IMHO...

Regards, Gary

 

[kelly keltner]

The answer is 17 years.

kell

 

[The Kai]

:mp5:

Todd, I am looking at your postion 5th, This is what you purport.

Now if you don't understand and fail to comprehend the influence on someone from or with the up bringing (age especially) of that particular culture (prior to our intervention, USA). I can't help you any further.

Last but not least, I think he was a spy (double)...:idunno: I also believe he was a paid informant for years in the USA IMHO...

Regards, Gary

What does position 5th mean?

I agree there are cultural differnces between peoples of the world that manifest themselves through relatioons between man&wife-how monies are spent
But in my limited exposure I have'nt seem a culture that says murder your neighbor.
I was'nt really looking for your help, Thank you though for your largesse. i was merely curious

 

[kelly keltner]

Hi Kell! Hey, believe it or not I agree with 99 per cent of what you said and I know sometimes things are miscontrued, so shi-t happens, lol, no problem but what I still disagree with and have a problem with is the Kosho people make the stand that Mitose studied in Japan, why is it not proper to ask you to show us? I have been asked over the years in conversations on different forums in the past when I used my signature as: 'Shihan' Joe Shuras, as if I self annoited myself the title, 'Shihan'. I had no problem with giving the exact date of my title and rank, a copy of my certificate and the current head of Nick Cerio's Kenpo to back it up and I can do the same for my title of 'Professor'! I use titles in correspondence only out of respect to the grandmasters that awarded me such! No ego involved! I didn't give it to myself but received it ( Professor) through the Hawaiian Martial Arts International Society, I didn't pay to get it, I didn't ask for it, I didn't misrepresent myself to get it, I didn't kiss butt to get it and I can back that up, so why is it so difficult to get a straight answer about Mitose from the Kosho people? Why? C'ome on guys, it's getting pretty thin, I honestly don't believe you guys even believe it and if you do, fine, give some proof and if not, well, as they say in court, CASE DISMISSED!

Doesn't It go both ways I have yet to see evidence to the contrary. So at this point I would call it a stalemate. Have you seen the evidence to the contrary Joe? All I have seen so far are conclusions drawn from the mans criminal activity. No one has shown anyone any supposed proof to the contrary. As far as I am cocerned until any proof to the contrary is firmly established I am about done with these threads. I'll come on these disscussions and throw you guys a bone once and a while.
First bone Thomas Mitose Isn't James's oldest child.

kell

 

[Mekugi]

Under what name was he in Japan?

Hi Kai,

I just heard a few minutes before I started this post, that the Juchnik camp has government documents (USA) that validify his (Mitose) claim to being in Japan.
The time frame as I understand is approx. 15 to 17 years give or take, if that was continuously I am not sure. So that is all I know
Regards, Gary

 

[GAB]

Hi,
Kai, 5th degree BB???:asian: I missed a comma,. Postion should be position...
See how easy it is to fail to communicate and we are only minutes away with posts and information, verse's fifty + years and much paperwork?

Mekugi:idunno: ?

Regards, Gary

 

[John Bishop]

i think the claim is 400 monks.
after Konishi had the temple destroyed the arts were passed on in secret. which goes right along with japanese history. the shogunate at the time outlawed the practice of martial arts by monks because they were a threat to political power.
and its not uncommon for a martial art to be handed down to family members only, as we all know
shawn

This is another example of teaching your students incorrect history to back up your claims.
The truth about Japanese history:
"The Shogun, Keiki, voluntarily surrendered his administrative powers to the youthful Emperor, Meiji, in November 1867. So ended the 2-1/2 centuries of Tokugawa rule, and on December 9, 1867, the Imperial Restoration was formally proclaimed. Thus ending of the Shogunate, and starting the Restoration of the Emperor."
So, since Mitose was born in 1916, he totally missed out on the Shogun Era, and the burning of his temple is a invalid reason for their being no Kosho Ryu descendants/practitioners in modern Japan.