Koga ryu in japan?

[Cryozombie]

I don't need to prove anything. This is well-known in Japan. Only recently has some of it been made public so that the rest of the world can know about it. Maybe your "Japanese literate" friend doesn't know where to look or who to talk to.

You make me giggle kid. Don isn't my friend, I've never even met him. What I have done is read his research and conclusions, and if you had any idea whatsoever, you certainly wouldn't claim he was the one who doesnt know where to look or who to talk to. Perhaps you are just a forum troll who's sitting on the other end of the keyboard wiggling his stick at the reactions he gets to his posts, or Perhaps, like so many others who have been duped, you . are just afraid to admit that you got tricked. Hey it's ok, happens to a lot of people... Either way it's not like I care what kind of ******** and nonsense you spout off here, because its a fairly well established fact, even in Japan, that you are wrong... and this BS claim that its been supersecret until now has been used over and over and over and over by so many people that it's more laughable now than ever.

 

[Eis]

Actually, I'm not a kid and you shouldn't call people you don't know "friends." What I have said is the plain and simple truth. Many Japanese historians/scholars and Japanese martial artists have known about Jinichi Kawakami for a long time. These people have devoted themselves to studying Japanese history...........in particular military history. Most of them back up Jinichi Kawakami's claims. I have seen and trained with some of the ancient weapons at my dojo.................there is a plethora of ancient texts and scrolls in Jinichi Kawakami's posession. You should take a look at his hands while you're at it.................why are they so calloused and his knuckles so huge? They have been conditioned after many years of tough training. Take a look at Kiyomoto-Sensei............it is obvious his body has endured years of harsh physical training as well. It's funny that this information has been obvious to many Japanese interested in this topic...............yet so many foreigners still have no idea about it.

 

[Cryozombie]

I have seen and trained with some of the ancient weapons at my dojo..................

Mine too. Does this mean we are an Uber secret ninja clan no one has heard of? LOL!

there is a plethora of ancient texts and scrolls in Jinichi Kawakami's posession.

Yeah? There are a plethora of ancient texts and scrolls in a lot of Librarys in Japan, does that make them all ninja clans? LOL!

You should take a look at his hands while you're at it.................why are they so calloused and his knuckles so huge? They have been conditioned after many years of tough training. Take a look at Kiyomoto-Sensei............it is obvious his body has endured years of harsh physical training as well.

Sounds like Mas Oyama too. Guess that makes him a ninja as well...

LOL. Dude... nothing you said means anything.

Tell you what... post the proof here for us. Let us evaluate it, and then we can know... or... does that violate some secret tenet and you cant do it...

:lfao::lfao::lfao:

 

[kaizasosei]

when i was i kid, i accepted everything i found as some kind of truth. nowadays, i still am on the lookout for good teachings and truths of all kinds.
however, the difference is that now i am able to see for myself the nature of someones ma. i have come to my own conclusions about what is good or bad, vulgar or refined, and i try to judge everyone according to who they are.
basically, i don't think i can easily be fooled. i will accept any truth that someone tells me but i think i can judge skill and experience for myself.
it hardly makes any difference what someones story is or their history, in reality they are judged by their abilities.


j

 

[Logan]

*yawn* Where's that "Do not feed the trolls" thingy....

 

[Eis]

That's a pretty lame rebuttal. Is that the best you can come up with? I gave you a line of information above....an English website even with a Japanese address etc.............go find the "ANA" magazine. Write the Shiga and Iga governmental offices. Write the Iga-Ueno Museum. There is also plenty of information published in Japanese. Here's one article in Japanese from ISBN: 978-4-05-604814-8. Do you know how to do research? Oh, here's a Japanese website for you as well:
http://www.eonet.ne.jp/~bankeshinobi/

By the way, the scrolls are directly related to Ninjutsu. There are also many ancient weapons from both Samurai and practitioners of Shinobi. If you are truly interested in these arts you should be willing to do the reasearch..........if not you shouldn't act like you are an expert at something you know little about.

 

[TimoS]

Ok, this is getting interesting. Now then, where's my popcorn.... Ah, found it

. I think I'll just sit back and watch how this one goes (like I don't know already)

 

[Sukerkin]

Eis, don't you think you're coming on a little strong for someone who hasn't even got his feet under the table yet?

That is particularly true given the dubious footing of what you are using to give your words some form of legitimacy.

Combine that with a confrontational attitude and an inability to paragraph and it's not surprising that you're feeling yourself to be roughly handled.

If you'll accept some kindly meant advice, ease off a little. Structuring your argument and posts more clearly would help matters too.

Of course, that pre-supposes that you're actually interested in getting a point across and aren't just a bored troll out for a stroll. If the latter is the case, then type quickly for maximum 'grin factor' for the inevitable tide of steel and fire will soon be upon you.

 

[Eis]

What I am saying is backed by stable evidence. My "feet are stable" if that's how you'd like to put it. I have not been confrontational. People on this forum have tried to tear apart somebody they don't even know.............they have no clue about this person or their art (in reference to posts made before I ever spoke). I just tried to put some words of respect in and was attacked rudely for it. I am just stating facts as I know it..............that's all. I mean no disrespect to anyone.

 

[Cryozombie]

If you are truly interested in these arts you should be willing to do the reasearch..........if not you shouldn't act like you are an expert at something you know little about.

Wrong. YOU are trying to prove our research and evidence are wrong. You don't do so by saying "Hey you dont know what you are talking about... write some guys in japan and ask, do the research yourself!" because we have done the research, from LEGITIMATE sources who all say the Koga line Is GONE. DONE. DEAD. EXTINCT.

If YOU want to claim they are wrong, YOU need to present your evidence HERE... not tell us to go out and find it.

In other words, kid, Put up or Shut Up.

 

[Eis]

P.S.

Inability to paragraph? What am I in English School now? You're British English seems pretty ****** to me too. This is "natural" English...........................I hope you are able to translate it. "Master Blackbelt" that **** makes me laugh. Guess what? In real military arts there were no belts. Belts are only for arts of the recent era. In ancient Japanese Martial Arts the belt system did not exist. It's just a scam nowadays to make money.

 

[newtothe dark]

Now let the mortal combat begin :jediduel:

 

[TimoS]

In real military arts there were no belts

No kidding? Thanks for clearing that up! I'm sure none of us knew that before

 

[Eis]

Wow, hey calm down now tiger. I didn't mean to ruffle your sensitive feathers. I gave you the information. If you can't go and do your own research based on the information I have given that is your own problem. I just take it as you aren't intelligent enough to find out the truth about what you are claiming to be experts on. The truth is there..........................right in front of your face. Why don't you take a look at it? The research has been done by expert Japanese historians on the subject.................if you have something else to add I would love to hear it.

 

[Koryu Rich]

Ah different forum same old nonsense!

Actually these claims do have substantial backing and I'm sorry they are not just "sounds in the wind." As I stated before they are backed by Japanese historians, the Iga-Ueno Ninjutsu museum, and also the government.

Ok which historians and how have these claims been verified?

It is also well-known among Japanese martial arts Sensei's here that if you want to train in Ninjutsu(authentic/real) there are only two people to go to............Jinichi Kawakami and Yasushi Kiyomoto.

Oh riiight!

Ok what about the classical Ryu that contain Ninjutsu as part of their teachings?

There are still a number of Ryu who’s legitimacy is beyond reproach which teach ninjutsu as part fo their curriculum.

Most recently they were featured in "ANA's" magazine "Wingspan." For those of you that don't know "ANA" stands for "All Nippon Airways" and is a major Japanese airline company. "Wingspan" is a magazine given out on each flight in Japan. Quoting from the magazine, "from youth he dedicated himself to ninja ways, with a meatless diet and intense physical training." "Kawakami is deemed 21st head of the Ban family of the Koka ninja school." "True ninja passed their final secrets to but one individual. Even in ninja families, only one son inherited the full ninja mantle (referring to Kawakami)." This is published in English. It is the September, 2007 issue of Wingspan for ANA.

And of course a magazine for an airline counts as relevant and legitimate evidence for your claims.

There are several publications mentionining Jinichi Kawakami and Yasushi Kiyomoto. Most are in Japanese.

Which publications?

I have trained under Kiyomoto-Sensei for over a year now.........about 99% of the time it's been one-on-one. He has trained in Ninjutsu for practicly his whole life. His body is hardened from training and he can move in ways that most people can't. I trained with quite a few well-respected martial artists in America from various disciplines........nothing has come close to what I have seen in Japan. Kiyomoto-Sensei is well-versed in the military arts and definitely knows his stuff. The class can be extremely rough............you will get hit, you will get bruises, and yes, you might bleed but you will also learn things that you can't learn anywhere else on earth.

What other disciplines have you trained in? Under which teachers?

What experience have you got that enables you to give a valid assessment on this gentleman?

Can you provide some sources please other than those linked to your teacher or your school which will give us some information about your art?

On the site you linked to it mentioned:


Shindenfudo-Ryu Kiho
Takenouchi-Ryu Koroshatemi No Den


Would you mind giving us some information on the above two schools please?



Thank you for your time

 

[kaizasosei]

many people say they are the only truth...
there could be many reasons for them saying that, depending on who they are.
so what is the truth? - it does seem that the situation as is would be a conflict in mastyles or conflict of the students themselves.
so, aside from the simple serenity attained by realizing the objective and subjective as they are, who do you think is the one who is more true?

once we understand and are able to grasp, even for a moment, those wonderful truths that we all search for like
ninjutsu scrolls, mystical knowledge and superb fighting skill and techniques..etc,..
at the end of the day everyone can be found training or stopping to train. but what cannot be erased or denied is the spirit of the training. what is the basis of prospering and what is the basis of protection and fighting.-
some will go to museums or buy weapons. some will train with weapons or forge their bodies. others will aim to develop the mind. still there are those that just run into the woods and start climbing practicing all sorts of moves. such is the case most often. so no disrespect to anyone.
to each his own. i think martial arts is also about opportunity and evolution. so teaching is actually a great responsibilty of the teacher to guide. not only in martial arts but as everything follows the words of the master. to set up the kamae of the student.

as far as ninjutsu goes, there are many people practicing what they call ninjutsu. do you know the main ones? i have researched many of them already. i have learned nothing new through this thread.
the truth is the one who buys it.






j

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

From what I have gathered from this thread is Eis is saying there is an actual Koga teacher in Japan. From this mist of nowhere does he appear and on top of that IS by his defination the only true Ninja teacher.
Now lays the problem of the claim an airline might put any entertaining story in their magazine in which most people use to blow their nose in which just does not hold weight against a historian with a name who can trace the linerage and some good soild proof that this gentleman is what he claims. I think those who practice the art have seen so many people claim Koga that it just draws a red flag. I think Eis your claims will have a hard time convincing anyone with out some good soild proof.
Please do not take this as bashing or any way but trying to understand why people feel the way they do and maybe reword things so the flames die down-Good luck

 

[Eis]

As far as what I've been training in before Ninjutsu that I can judge a persons strength/weakness on.............well I studied quite a few martial/military arts.

JuJutsu for about 5years (3years under a statetrooper who was bodyguard to the governor of my state.......he's been a statetrooper for almost 30years now).

Over 3years experience training in "Systema" a military art from the elite "Spetsnaz" units in Russia. I have had the privelage of meeting and training with Vladimir Vasiliev.

Other various martial arts - Karate, Brazilian Jujutsu, Kickboxing Etc.

I have been training with Kiyomoto-Sensei for over a year now in Japan. Yes, he is the real deal. I have studied with many martial arts "masters" and I can definitely state that Kiyomoto-Sensei is legitimate. If you want particular information regarding Koka Ninjutsu training I suggest you contact the "Koka and Iga Ninjutsu" dojo in Japan.

 

[Kreth]

Some very prominent Japanese historians have just verified my claim as Soke of Onara Ryu. Go check it out. We are the only surviving Koga tradition. Oh yes, and we'll have a very nice article next month in Playboy.

 

[Koryu Rich]

JuJutsu for about 5years (3years under a statetrooper who was bodyguard to the governor of my state.......he's been a statetrooper for almost 30years now).

What style of Jujutsu? Who was your teacher?

Over 3years experience training in "Systema" a military art from the elite "Spetsnaz" units in Russia. I have had the privelage of meeting and training with Vladimir Vasiliev.

It’s not hard to “meet” Vlad he does enough seminars etc

Again who was your Systema teacher? My teacher will probably of heard of him.

I have been training with Kiyomoto-Sensei for over a year now in Japan. Yes, he is the real deal. I have studied with many martial arts "masters" and I can definitely state that Kiyomoto-Sensei is legitimate.

Who are these masters you mention?

If you want particular information regarding Koka Ninjutsu training I suggest you contact the "Koka and Iga Ninjutsu" dojo in Japan.

Well you are here so I don’t see why you can’t give us some basic information on those schools I asked about?

Also can you provide us with details of the historians you keep mentioning and how the claims of your school was verified?

I have been training with Kiyomoto-Sensei for over a year now in Japan

Mods if Eis is in Japan can you check his IP to verify this please??