William Durbin, Koga Ryu - Kosho Ryu connection?

[gavarn]

Ok the name is Nimr Hassan

I like his (durbin)Mon, I do believe he should have added the octagon though.

Kai...The word is convoluted. I posted it in the other post also.
It would be appropriate here also...
Hassan, (hassan) when he is using that term, has anyone talked to him to find out, if it is from the meaning of western thought, or eastern thought, have in mind?

The Eastern or Arab world, say, it is not to be confused with the way we the Western people think.

Western thought, Hassan... is connected to the Assassains, Eastern feel it is the keeper of the true meaning of the way. His full name in Western thought interpreted is... Nimer=Panther... Hassan= Assassain. Or Arab would be, Panther+ Keeper of the way or Gatekeeper, or maybe the Gate protector.

What do you think???

Regards, Gary

 

[KenpoPastor]

It seems to me that we enjoy arguing our points more than sharing knowledge, all the "hot" forums have a point of contention like this one.

A lot of legends in martial arts and in Kenpo, especially surrounding Mitose. The legends available so far:
1. Mitose the con man learned some basic Okinowan Te and passing it off as his family made some modifications and improvements.
2. Mitose the honarable 21st Great Grandmaster of his family's secret art that originated in a Buddhist temple in Japan around 1200 AD.
3. Mitose the super spy who was taught Okinowan Te by Motubu or one of his students and combined it with Ninjitsu taught by Seiko.
4. Or a random combination of the above legends.

I don't know what the truth is and honestly, I don't care either. All I know is that Mitose taught some people an effective Self-Defense and his students and Grand-students continue to innovate and teach some effective martial arts.

_Don

 

[KenpoPastor]

Let me just add that I would rather learn something new about kenpo than argue about Mitose. At this point, what's the point of arguing it without conclusive evidence of his lineage - the kind that people promise to show but never do. Let's be honest even if such evidence did surface most of us would go on believing what we want to anyway.
_don

 

[The Kai]

The problem is when people claim authority based of a make believe lineage!!

 

[Jeff Boler]

Well, I do know what the truth is. The truth is that Terry Lee (aka Nimr Hassan) was convicted of murder, and Mitose himself was convicted of conspiracy.

In my view, that's all I need to know.

It matters because there are people going out of their way to "align" themselves with Mitose. Durbin, for instance, went out and basically "took in" Hassan, with the intentions of bolstering his own claims. Why? Because he has already requested that Thomas Mitose and Bruce Juchnik recognize him as the Soke of his own self-created Ryu. Now with Hassan in the mix, Durbin claims to be the only person with lineages to all three people.

That's quite deceptive, being that he hasn't learned a thing from Mitose or Juchnick. So when people like this quite making claims like this, I'll quit discussing it. Until then, somebody needs to stay around and stick to the truth.

 

[KenpoPastor]

The problem is when people claim authority based of a make believe lineage!!

This is true but I think when their lineage claim has been superceeded by their own actions.
Example: Few people question Ed Parker's legitimacy as a Master despite when he bagan his school he was only a brown belt under chow and this is because he was proven to be the real deal by the quality of his martial art skill and that of his students.

I think in regards to this we must give Mitose legitimacy simply because of the undeniable skill and abilities of his students. Whether we want to admit it or not we all owe our arts to him. I just think it's useless to argue his lineage because of the lack of evidence and I think his character or lack of and personal failures have little bearing to the legitimacy of his art although they could cause one to doubt his claims.

Concerning Durbin's claims and theories it's definitely fishy. I think the multitude of previous posts to that effect have proven it. The need for further testimony to that effect is akin to the need to beat a dead horse.

_don

 

[John Bishop]

could you scan the actual document, highlighting where it says this and pm it to me?

i would like to thank you in advance.

Like I stated, this is just some of the 225+ pages of Terry Lee's testimony. The whole trial transcript is 3140 pages.
It is a public record, and availiable from the Los Angeles County, Ca. Superior Court. Duplicating costs for 3140 pages are very high.
But the transcript has also been converted to PDF form on CD rom, and is availaible for purchase from many sources. Since it is public record, there is no copyright on it.
Just doing a quick Ebay search of "Mitose" should give you a opportunity to purchase the whole transcript.

 

[koga ha]

Like I stated, this is just some of the 225+ pages of Terry Lee's testimony. The whole trial transcript is 3140 pages.
It is a public record, and availiable from the Los Angeles County, Ca. Superior Court. Duplicating costs for 3140 pages are very high.
But the transcript has also been converted to PDF form on CD rom, and is availaible for purchase from many sources. Since it is public record, there is no copyright on it.
Just doing a quick Ebay search of "Mitose" should give you a opportunity to purchase the whole transcript.

I thought you had something in your possession that you were quoting from. Thank you for the purchasing information.

 

[The Kai]

This is true but I think when their lineage claim has been superceeded by their own actions.
Example: Few people question Ed Parker's legitimacy as a Master despite when he bagan his school he was only a brown belt under chow and this is because he was proven to be the real deal by the quality of his martial art skill and that of his students.

I think in regards to this we must give Mitose legitimacy simply because of the undeniable skill and abilities of his students. Whether we want to admit it or not we all owe our arts to him. I just think it's useless to argue his lineage because of the lack of evidence and I think his character or lack of and personal failures have little bearing to the legitimacy of his art although they could cause one to doubt his claims.

Concerning Durbin's claims and theories it's definitely fishy. I think the multitude of previous posts to that effect have proven it. The need for further testimony to that effect is akin to the need to beat a dead horse.

_don

1.) Parker was'nt a black belt when he open his school??
2.) Mitoses legimiticy is based more on the students that were produced from the Chow lineage

 

[KenpoPastor]

1.) Parker was'nt a black belt when he open his school??

As far as I know he was a Brown Belt when he left Hawaii, some say he got his Shodan mysteriously on the plane ride to the main land. I'm not knocking the guy as far as I'm concerned he was proven by his fruit. Bruce Lee was the equivalent of a Green Belt in Wing Chun when he developed Jeet Kune Do, same thought applies to him. Nobody can deny the positive affect these men have had on the martial arts.

2.) Mitoses legimiticy is based more on the students that were produced from the Chow lineage

Agreed, of his earlier students Chow appears to be the most active in developing the martial art he was shown by Mitose. From what I've heard Chow was an exceptional martial artist and he was obviously a great innovator of the art but the Foundation that he built on came from Mitose. My point about Mitose is that Chow and many others have used his art as a foundation for their own arts. It's interesting how many people declare their own system from Kenpo. While I'm sure there are many scammers and skeemers in the mix but the soil of Kenpo must be very fruitful to have so many trees.

 

[John Bishop]

I thought you had something in your possession that you were quoting from. Thank you for the purchasing information.

I have gone to the LA Superior Court Clerks Office and read the actual transcript, before it was made availiable on DVD.
I do have a DVD of the complete trial transcript.
I have a copy of the Sentencing Report and Recommendation, done by the L.A. Probation Department.
I have a copy of "Summary of the Crime" done by the California Department of Corrections.
So yes, I was quoting from the actual trial transcript, which I have in my possession.

 

[koga ha]

I have gone to the LA Superior Court Clerks Office and read the actual transcript, before it was made availiable on DVD.
I do have a DVD of the complete trial transcript.
I have a copy of the Sentencing Report and Recommendation, done by the L.A. Probation Department.
I have a copy of "Summary of the Crime" done by the California Department of Corrections.
So yes, I was quoting from the actual trial transcript, which I have in my possession.

oh, than could you pull off the part on your dvd that was mentioned earlier and pm me? i would like to see.

 

[The Kai]

As far as I know he was a Brown Belt when he left Hawaii, some say he got his Shodan mysteriously on the plane ride to the main land. I'm not knocking the guy as far as I'm concerned he was proven by his fruit. Bruce Lee was the equivalent of a Green Belt in Wing Chun when he developed Jeet Kune Do, same thought applies to him. Nobody can deny the positive affect these men have had on the martial arts.

Agreed, of his earlier students Chow appears to be the most active in developing the martial art he was shown by Mitose. From what I've heard Chow was an exceptional martial artist and he was obviously a great innovator of the art but the Foundation that he built on came from Mitose. My point about Mitose is that Chow and many others have used his art as a foundation for their own arts. It's interesting how many people declare their own system from Kenpo. While I'm sure there are many scammers and skeemers in the mix but the soil of Kenpo must be very fruitful to have so many trees.

Yes, to be honest that is a rumor I've heard about Ed Parker. However it seems to be a rumor

If you look at the majority of Kenpo based systems today they all trace thier physical movements back to Chow. All seem to have the same trademarks or signatures when it comes to tactics. To say Mitose was the foundation is like saying if I lay one block in the building of your basement I now own your house

 

[John Bishop]

oh, than could you pull off the part on your dvd that was mentioned earlier and pm me? i would like to see.

Let me see what I can do. In the past I have tried to cut and paste from PDF files, but it didn't work. I'll see if I can print select pages, and then scan them for email attachments. I'm not real familiar working with the PDF format and the Adobe Acrobat program.

 

[koga ha]

Let me see what I can do. In the past I have tried to cut and paste from PDF files, but it didn't work. I'll see if I can print select pages, and then scan them for email attachments. I'm not real familiar working with the PDF format and the Adobe Acrobat program.

thank you.

 

[KenpoPastor]

Yes, to be honest that is a rumor I've heard about Ed Parker. However it seems to be a rumor

If you look at the majority of Kenpo based systems today they all trace thier physical movements back to Chow. All seem to have the same trademarks or signatures when it comes to tactics. To say Mitose was the foundation is like saying if I lay one block in the building of your basement I now own your house

I don't know about the owning the house analogy but I will say if that one stone is the cornerstone of the house the entire structure would be built upon it.

_don

 

[The Kai]

That is why I did'nt use the word cornerstone.

Kenpo by and large is draw from Chow's teachings

 

[Matt]

Let me see what I can do. In the past I have tried to cut and paste from PDF files, but it didn't work. I'll see if I can print select pages, and then scan them for email attachments. I'm not real familiar working with the PDF format and the Adobe Acrobat program.

If it's the transcript and you tell me what pages you want, I can put up individual .pdf files of a given page or two with no problem. Save some paper.

Matt

 

[John Bishop]

If it's the transcript and you tell me what pages you want, I can put up individual .pdf files of a given page or two with no problem. Save some paper.

Matt

Matt:
It would be page 1333 on the CD, which is page 1288 of the trial transcript. That page has Terry Lee's statement of when he met Mitose.

Page 1351 on the CD, which is page 1306 of the trial transcript, has Lee's statement about when their relationship ended.

 

[KenpoPastor]

That is why I did'nt use the word cornerstone.

Kenpo by and large is draw from Chow's teachings

I guess I would need to be more educated about all of the styles of Kenpo because from what I've read of Mitose's 1st book and what I hear about his second, what I'm learning is from him. Though if that were the case it seems strange to me that Chow was Mitose's student for so long and if what we call Kenpo stems from him or the chinese art he learned from his father why did he persist in calling it Kenpo as Mitose did, why not even the Chinese word Chuan Fa or some kind of Kung fu. These are the things that stick out to me if what your saying is accurate.

_don