Kids black belt

[Gerry Seymour]

OK I know this has been discussed but in light of no necrothread.

Kids black belts, I have to admit in my school I don't hand them out. I don't do kids classes anymore. As I laugh when they say their kids need discipline, then I do and they freak. But the other is the when will my kid get a black belt. My answer is they won't I would only grade them yellow, orange, red and green. When they are 13 they can join the adults class and move up from there.
Personally, it all depends what you put into Shodan but the knowledge and brevity of it, I don't think is for kids. Skill level is one thing. I have seen some impressive kids.

But I don't give kids dan ranks. I actually won't do it under 16.

Thoughts

This was nearly the same approach in the association I came up in. Kids had a different curriculum (and separate ranks). If a kid finished the kids' ranks and was at least 13, they could join adult classes. I think at age 16 they automatically moved to adult classes, regardless of their rank. All kids - regardless of rank - started adult classes as the equivalent of white belts (technically, they outranked all the white belts, but nobody else, but that had no bearing in the school other than where they lined up).

I don't have a problem with kids' BB ranks - I just believe they should be a separate rank, unless somehow they can actually fulfill the full adult requirements. Meaning, if the requirements included sparring, they have to spar against adults.

I never taught kids after I left my instructor's school. I didn't have the inclination, and didn't really have the time to add separate classes for them (I taught at most 3 times a week).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

There’s probably a subjective view amongst muggles that a black belt’s abilities should appear…’beyond the ordinary‘…impressive perhaps. When you see a kid who’s practised boxing for a few years throwing hooks and upper cuts, they look accomplished and worthy of their teaching.

I don’t know much about boxing but this kid looks ‘beyond the ordinary’ and he’s be a great advert for his boxing club.

You don’t need to know about Karate to see this little girl is ’beyond the ordinary’ because her moves are crisp, her set ups are amazing she completes each movement with focus and her resolve is startling. She subjectively looks as though she’s worthy of that bit of black cloth around her waist…you might not know why but you can some how see it in her movements. I bet her teacher is happy for her to be representative to her dojo.

Using that same ‘gut feeling’, does this child look worthy of a black belt? He’s clearly trained but his movements are not completed before he moves onto the next. There’s some focus in his punches but he doesn’t pull his fist back properly (chambers - hikite), he’s looking around all over the place rather than at his imaginary enemy. He good for a child but if he were an adult, he would not receive (I’d hope) a black belt for this performance.

Let children practise martial by all means, but don’t grade them until they’re adults and capable of being true black belts that reflect well on your art and club amongst the public.

There will be the occasional amazing kid who possibly does deserve a black belt, but they outliers in the population and are be very, very rare and perhaps they should be allowed to attempt a Dan grade during which they should free fight with a large, fully resisting, aggressive, muscular adult

To your last point, I'd say that's only fair if something analogous is done for all adults. Do they all have to face the largest, most aggressive member of the school? Or do they face an adult of appropriate rank? If the latter, I'd argue any adult of appropriate rank is appropriate for the youth, as well. And it shouldn't matter whether they "win" - I'd assume not everyone has to "win" their BB ranking sparring in this hypothetical school, since they'd be facing folks of similar skill. We'd be looking for whether they execute well and make a good showing, showing their skill and reasonable composure.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't have a problem with kids' BB ranks - I just believe they should be a separate rank, unless somehow they can actually fulfill the full adult requirements. Meaning, if the requirements included sparring, they have to spar against adults.

Just to be clear, I don't either. I don't give them, but I couldn't care less if other systems do. Not my zoo, not my monkeys.

 

[Hot Lunch]

Using that same ‘gut feeling’, does this child look worthy of a black belt? He’s clearly trained but his movements are not completed before he moves onto the next. There’s some focus in his punches but he doesn’t pull his fist back properly (chambers - hikite), he’s looking around all over the place rather than at his imaginary enemy. He good for a child but if he were an adult, he would not receive (I’d hope) a black belt for this performance.

But is this kid a black belt? It's half red & black. At the most, this is likely a black belt ranking for children that clearly distinguishes them from adults.

As for the commentary on his form, I'm going to reserve judgement on that. Although I've never seen TKD forms, I have seen TSD and SBD forms. It looks like Korean forms go more for a smooth/rhythmic/flow type aesthetic, rather than the crisp/sharp aesthetic of Japanese and Okinawan katas.

 

[Dirty Dog]

But is this kid a black belt? It's half red & black. At the most, this is likely a black belt ranking for children that clearly distinguishes them from adults.

It's a poom rank. It's how the KKW designates Under-15 Dans.

As for the commentary on his form, I'm going to reserve judgement on that. Although I've never seen TKD forms, I have seen TSD and SBD forms. It looks like Korean forms go more for a smooth/rhythmic/flow type aesthetic, rather than the crisp/sharp aesthetic of Japanese and Okinawan katas.

Their form performance is fine, for a kid that age. It would be totally unacceptable for a Dan holder.

 

[J. Pickard]

We use the poom belt for 13–16-year-olds. This is for those kids who train hard and are physically capable but not mature enough for the responsibility that comes with 1st dan. We try to do a lot of tournaments with our kids so they are always being pushed to be better so allowing them to rank up to junior black belt helps to make sure they always have solid competition at tournaments. Additionally, our Black belt classes get pretty intense and I'm pretty sure that level of intense exercise is not healthy for young kids. It's not possible to be younger than 13 for poom belt (Jr Black) because we don't start training in our full Taekwondo curriculum until about 9, and our grappling and kickboxing curriculum doesn't start until 14. 3 to young 5 year olds work for colored tape stripes on their white belts. Kindergarten through 9 year olds get senior ranked white belts with a single colored stripe through the middle of the entire length of the belt. older 9 year olds start the full curriculum and can now work toward advancing toward full colored belts. And before anyone yells out "cash grab" we don't charge belt testing fees, not even for black belt.

 

[Steve]

for what it’s worth, I don’t think it’s a big deal. Belts are like diplomas. Some are worth more than others. And ultimately, they only really matter if they are used for something practical.

 

[Hot Lunch]

for what it’s worth, I don’t think it’s a big deal. Belts are like diplomas.

I'll treat it the same way as I was saying before with separate "junior black belt" ranks.

I'm personally not a fan of the GED being treated as a shortcut for 15 year olds who have problems with authority. I've always thought that no matter when a high school dropout completes the requirements for a GED, the GED should never be conferred earlier than the day they were scheduled to graduate from the high school that they dropped out of.

"Junior black belt" would be equivalent to the period of abeyance for the GED that would exist if I had my way. I.e., the student has completed the requirements for the dan ranking, they just haven't been awarded it.

 

[Gyakuto]

I don’t think children should engage in striking arts. They just don’t seem to be able to ‘get it’. I think rough and tumble throwing/grappling-based arts are more intuitive for them -it’s how they seem to naturally play. The valuable skills they learn in these art would also put them at an advantage should they decide to migrate to striking arts in the future.

 

[Steve]

I don’t think children should engage in striking arts. They just don’t seem to be able to ‘get it’. I think rough and tumble throwing/grappling-based arts are more intuitive for them -it’s how they seem to naturally play. The valuable skills they learn in these art would also put them at an advantage should they decide to migrate to striking arts in the future.

Safer too. Getting knocked around the head doesn’t seem like a good idea for kids or adults.