Black Belts Kids

[Kirk]

A friend of mine that studies Kendo with Sensei Craig in Houston
went with his Sensei on a trip to Japan. He said there were
shodans there, as young as 12 years old. Since belts are Japan's
tradition, why are WE the ones to stray?

I'm not throwing this out there for the purposes of reflection, I'm
truly curious.

 

[arnisador]

Kendo is a sport--I don't see it as exactly the same. It also has relatively few techniques compared to many martial arts.

 

[Goldendragon7]

with Shinzu in part....... however..... as he states in his last post above........ what he looks for in a Black Belt is not necessairly being adheared to in the ADULT Catagory at many studios either.......... I have seen some Gawd awful Black Belts (all systems).

I am definately "For Standardization" starting with respect,.....


:asian:

 

[Seig]

Mr. C et al,
Every one here has very valid points.

I am definately "For Standardization" starting with respect,.....

I believe that has to start with the Senior ranks before it can filter down to the ranks. I think we have made a good start of it here. The rest of the MA community has a long way to go. We Ladies and Gentlemen, and the rest of us, must lead by example.:soapbox: Preach mode:OFF

 

[Goldendragon7]

but what an uphill battle that is......... lol:rofl:

:asian:

 

[Shinzu]

i am for junior black belt ranks. i feel kids shouldn't be held back, but at the same time they should not be compared to ranks of an adult.

kids are not mentally prepared for this kind of responsibility. the skill level may be there, but in the spectrum of things there is much to be learned.

this is not to say that just because you are an adult you WILL get your black belt either. there are many different aspects that an adult must do and prove to achieve this rank also.

junior black belt = not before age 10

adult black belt = not before age 15

just my opinion, but i would run my school something like this. i would not want to compromise my art so a kid could wear a rank that he/she is not yet fully prepared for. i have seen too many "undeveloped" black belt kids.

 

[karatekid1975]

I am "devided" in this subject (the reason for egnoring it for a while). In my TSD school, I saw BB's under 10. They were junior BB's. Two of them were amazing. Everything they did was close to perfect. But then again, there were others who down right sucked (a few older ... 12 I think). I had better technique than them at green belt!

I don't agree with giving kids a BB, either, but for the two boys I mentioned above, that would change my mind. But I can't just "select" a few to get a BB, and not others. There has to be a "standard" age for everyone, like Sinzu mentioned.

In my TKD school, there isn't anyone under age 15 with a BB. There are 15 year old BB's but they are "junior" BB's. I think you have to be 17 or 18 to get the real thing (I'm not positive on that one).

When I start teaching, I think I wouldn't hand a seven year old a BB. That is just way too young. They are not mature enough to know the "meaning" or responciblity of the rank. I personally like the "junior" thing, but not before the age of 15.

 

[Goldendragon7]

Originally posted by Shinzu

i am for junior black belt ranks. i feel kids shouldn't be held back, but at the same time they should not be compared to ranks of an adult. I would not want to compromise my art so a kid could wear a rank that he/she is not yet fully prepared for. I've seen too many "undeveloped" black belt kids.

Yep, that's from the McDojo's mostly!

 

[tonbo]

Yeah, I've seen 'em too!!! Some of 'em are as old as I am !!!!



Peace--

 

[Shinzu]

the worst part is that you really can't blame the kids. it's the instructors that need a lesson on what it's all about.

 

[arnisador]

http://news6.thdo.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/wales/newsid_1884000/1884325.stm

"Four-year-old wins martial arts award"

 

[sweeper]

Mr Burns believes tae kwon do will help Heather as she grows up.

"It is a non-contact, defensive sport. I think it teaches the kids a good moral code and discipline," he said.

"But I don't fancy it myself - I'll stick to playing squash."

seems more like a sports club than a martial arts class.

Brings me to a question.. When a kid studies a martial art (I never did as a young child so I havn't a clue) are most of them going for socialisation, sport, self deffence, or something else?

If sport or socialisation why do you even need the ranking? what other sport uses a graded ranking system? And doesn't a ranking system inherantly run the risk of diverting attention from the art to gaining a higher rank (loosing sight of the forest for the trees)? I don't understand why a child needs a blackbelt, I mean realy an adult doesn't realy need a black belt but the ranking also serves other purposes.

Also, peoples maturity varies ALOT. I know 30 year olds that aren't responsibal people and 14 year olds that are. Because there is simply so much variation in maturity and personality I would argue that age should have nothing to do with when you can get your black belt. Now if you have never seen a person under age 18 that would have fullfilled your requirements to become a black belt, that doesn't mean such a person doesn't exsist. And if you were to say someone must be 16 or 18 to get a black belt you may imply that anyone who shows a sertain level of martial knowledge and is of a given age deserves the rank where as their maturity is as much a question (in otherwords alot of older people do not deserve the rank either).

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Shinzu

i

just my opinion, but i would run my school something like this. i would not want to compromise my art so a kid could wear a rank that he/she is not yet fully prepared for. i have seen too many "undeveloped" black belt kids.

Interesting statment.... compromise.
That would be doing something else then the art, right?
But as long as you stay in the art, everything is OK?

I think really that kids can only learn certain stuff, 'cause they cann't understand the consequesnses of some of the techniques.

It'øs been pointed towards knifes, and I think everybody can agree, that under normal situation, in our western world, kids don't have to learn about knifes. But what about braking an arm, or a strangle, or maybe a groin kick(you can kill er person with this...). I'm not looking at why you can use it, but what are the remifications of using it, and can the kid carry the responsability.

Kids are not mentaly equipped for this. If it doesn't hit them now, it'll haunt them later.

I think body movments, throws, (punches & kicks- depending on the kind and reason) are great praticese for kids, and only in this you should have a lot for the kids to handle.


/Yari

 

[Shinzu]

Originally posted by Yari



Interesting statment.... compromise.
That would be doing something else then the art, right?
But as long as you stay in the art, everything is OK?

you can compromise your teachings and you art, without actually changing the art itself. such as giving away ranks or promoting students for cash.

you are still teaching the same art, but not how it was intended to be passed down from teacher to student.

nor is the student truly learning what the art is really about.

 

[Yari]

Originally posted by Shinzu



you can compromise your teachings and you art, without actually changing the art itself. such as giving away ranks or promoting students for cash.

True

/Yari

 

[tunetigress]

When my daughter 'Tashtigress,' now 10, was first enrolled in the local Tracy's Kenpo school, we were clearly informed that they did not offer a 'Junior Program' or award 'Junior' Belts, and that little Tash would have to wait until age 16 until she would be permitted to test for a Black Belt. Presently completing Green Belt, she receives instruction through weekly private lessons, and has also taken advantage of extra group classes in Sparring, Forms, and Weapons as part of the dojo's Tournament Team for the past two years. Very few other children have attended these sessions, and until very recently, she has been the only female child involved. Come to think of it, she's been the only girl in every division she has entered in two years of tournaments. She has sparred only boys, both in training and in competition. She dreams of someday 'getting' to spar with other girls, LOL! She is well aware that she is being taught the Tracy's System in the same manner as everyone else there, and that when she does receive her Black Belt, it will have to have been earned. Jeesh, it will sure be well paid for, after forking out for lessons for what, er, 9 years to Black Belt in her case??? In my opinion, she'll be good and ready by then ( although puberty is still ahead, sigh) and if she is awarded at BB at 16, she'll deserve it.