Keysi Fighting Method/Defence Lab

[Gerry Seymour]

If you hadn't gone past the elastic stAge , it wouldNt be stretched and no pain. So it's a self proving point, pain equals stretch equals damage, but just doIng press ups damages them

That’s a conclusion I’m not familiar with. Can you point me to an article?

 

[Deleted member 39489]

Oh look the police agree with us


Pain Compliance vs. Body Mechanics.

 

[Deleted member 39489]

That’s a conclusion I’m not familiar with. Can you point me to an article?

Hes talking about micro tears, however once again hes goal posting to win arguments rather than have an actual discussion.


To give an example.of pointless use of skin tears.

Arm drag control.

Do I

A) capture right wrist with my left, control elbow with a strong right hand grip?

B) the same except instead of an elbow control I grab the triceps area in a skin tear.

Why is the stupid? Inconsistencies.

If the person feels pain the natural response is to remove or move away from the source of.pain, usually by pulling the arm out, more on this in a second.

If hes not feeling pain due to adrenaline or drugs, you've sacrificed a Strong grip for a weak one.

Get a broom, grip it and get a Buddy to try to pull it away, now.do the same but with a shallow grip on a towel.

 

[jobo]

Straw man. I never said the dictionary was wrong.

No itS your strawman, I said you say people( ie me) who use The dictionary are wrong, as you have repeatedly, on the definition of pain compliance.

 

[jobo]

Oh look the police agree with us


Pain Compliance vs. Body Mechanics.

Have you read that ? It agreedS entirely with my points,

 

[jobo]

That’s a conclusion I’m not familiar with. Can you point me to an article?

You want an article that's says stretching tendons past the point, that they have the elasticity to accomplish damages them ? Really ? How do you thiNK people damage tendons ?

 

[jobo]

Do they?

Of course they do, pressing a pressure points over loads the nervous system preventing it from working correctly, i.e. It's damaged, pressing the skin hard enough to accomplish the above, damages the skin,

 

[jobo]

What level of damage is occurring. I’ve had that done many times with nothing more than temporary (maybe a few minutes) pain. Perhaps there are micro-tears like with some exercise.

The issue at hand is damage, if you hurt AFTer it's because you have sustained damage, there is no other reason for The pain to continue other thAN damage had been caused

 

[Deleted member 39489]

No itS your strawman, I said you say people( ie me) who use The dictionary are wrong, as you have repeatedly, on the definition of pain compliance.

Pain compliance is using pain to gain compliance.

Pain compliance is not reliable

Structural control is better.

End of story.

 

[jobo]

Pain compliance is using pain to gain compliance.

Pain compliance is not reliable

Structural control is better.

End of story.

Yes structural control is better ( in some circumstances)no one has disputed that, the issue was that you were claiming Pain compliance is structural control And structural control is pain compliance, and that link clearly says the two are different.

An arm bar with no pain is structural control, an arm bar with pain is pain compliance, , which could be better, if what you want is compliance rather than just control,

 

[Deleted member 39489]

Yes structural control is better ( in some circumstances)no one has disputed that, the issue was that you were claiming Pain compliance is structural control And structural control is pain compliance, and that link clearly says the two are different.

An arm bar with no pain is structural control, an arm bar with pain is pain compliance, , which could be better, if what you want is compliance rather than just control,

I never claimed pain compliance is structural control, its quite the opposite.

 

[CB Jones]

Shouldn't structural control and pain compliance go hand in hand?

 

[jobo]

Hes talking about micro tears, however once again hes goal posting to win arguments rather than have an actual discussion.


To give an example.of pointless use of skin tears.

Arm drag control.

Do I

A) capture right wrist with my left, control elbow with a strong right hand grip?

B) the same except instead of an elbow control I grab the triceps area in a skin tear.

Why is the stupid? Inconsistencies.

If the person feels pain the natural response is to remove or move away from the source of.pain, usually by pulling the arm out, more on this in a second.

If hes not feeling pain due to adrenaline or drugs, you've sacrificed a Strong grip for a weak one.

Get a broom, grip it and get a Buddy to try to pull it away, now.do the same but with a shallow grip on a towel.

It's also a common misconception that adrenaline,reduces pain responce, studies have shown that it can both marginaly increase and reduce pain response dependent on the typE of pain, the Definning factor in reduced pain response is not adrenaline but the subject being distracted, by what ever is Stressing them, not the bodies reaction to that stress, if you make make them concentrate on the pain, then the pain response is higher, not lower, Ie if it's the pain that is causing the adrenaline release then the pain response will be greater

 

[jobo]

Shouldn't structural control and pain compliance go hand in hand?

YouD think so, but apparently not according to some here

 

[Deleted member 39489]

It's also a common misconception that adrenaline,reduces pain responce, studies have shown that it can both marginaly increase and reduce pain response dependent on the typE of pain, the Definning factor in reduced pain response is not adrenaline but the subject being distracted, by what ever is Stressing them, not the bodies reaction to that stress, if you make make them concentrate on the pain, then the pain response is higher, not lower, Ie if it's the pain that is causing the adrenaline release then the pain response will be greater

You are trained to use skin tears as a control in defense lab when executing an arm drag, a better way is to simply cup the elbow or grab clothing rather than trying to tear skin.

 

[Deleted member 39489]

YouD think so, but apparently not according to some here

Pain compliance on its own is not enough, i made this point with skin tears, so you goal posted the argument.

I asked you how do you escape a mount and you dodged the question.

 

[Deleted member 39489]

Shouldn't structural control and pain compliance go hand in hand?

They do, my argument was that using techniques that RELY on pain to work are not as effective as ones that use structural control.

An example of this is the defense lab choke defense that relies on a line motor movement that attacks the ulnar nerve.

Without pain this does not function.

BJJ choke defense attacks the structure of the choke, this does not require pain to function.

 

[jobo]

I never claimed pain compliance is structural control, its quite the opposite.

You claim an arm bar with pain want

They do, my argument was that using techniques that RELY on pain to work are not as effective as ones that use structural control.

An example of this is the defense lab choke defense that relies on a line motor movement that attacks the ulnar nerve.

Without pain this does not function.

BJJ choke defense attacks the structure of the choke, this does not require pain to function.

Not as effective At what, structural control will not give you compliance, if what you need is compliance then pain is what you must achieve, ergo pain compliance technique are not only better, but the only ones that work at getting compliance

 

[jobo]

Pain compliance on its own is not enough, i made this point with skin tears, so you goal posted the argument.

I asked you how do you escape a mount and you dodged the question.

Clearly if they become compliant through pain, then pain compliance is enough !

 

[jobo]

You are trained to use skin tears as a control in defense lab when executing an arm drag, a better way is to simply cup the elbow or grab clothing rather than trying to tear skin.

That doesn't alter the fact that your claim that adrenaline will reduce pain response was fundamental wrong, which was your main argument against the use of pain as a response to being attacked