Jr. Black Belt Test

[Twin Fist]

did i do something to give you the impression I care what you think?

cuz if i did, it was an accident, trust me

How DARE you tell me I shouldnt be teaching children. Then to to say "no offense"???

too late, you HAVE offended.

I mentioned thier BODIES you know, in MY school martial arts is a PHYSICAL skill as well as mental. Since a childs body is still growing and developing, they are gonna learn slower. Thier balance is not as good. this means it takes longer to learn physical skills

maybe YOUR school is all mental, mine is hard work outs with lots of sweat.

Thier character isnt muture enough as a CHILD to deal with the life or death decisions a BB has to make.

if you debate this, you need to leave martial arts and take up ballet


and BTW- not that it is any of your business, and not that your rude as hell post has earned you the courtesy of an answer, but NO, the retest to adult black doesnt cost anything.

 

[SifuJohnson]

I think you have many misconceptions of MMA based on what you see on US television. Firstly it's a sport, here in the UK we treat it as such, we train SD differently. It's less violent than many sports such as American football, ice hockey and rugby. it' merely full contact martial arts and it frankly upsets me that people have the wrong image of it. You are judging it purely from a couple of promotions who are out to make money. Here we don't make money from it, if we had I could have come across to America for the last two Meet and Greet instead of ploughing my hard earned savings into shows.

MMA fighters here are for the most part tradtionally trained, TKD, karate, MT and Judo etc. The MMa fights are a game of physical chess, great fun to watch. brutal no and theres no reason for teenagers not to be involved, they fight amateur rules, no head shots standing or on the ground plus locks aren't put on fully. safer then than many TKD, karate and Judo comps.

Please don't condemn the sport just because of the UFC, take a look at what we do and see what MMA really is.

My friend, I live in the United States and though you are correct to remind me that things may be different in the UK, I would like to also remind you that people in this country see and want to emulate what they see on TV and what they see these days is the UFC and Extreme Fighting.

“Perception is reality” and there are many of us who feel more than a little upset because the MMA we see on TV gives people the perception that this is what martial arts is all about. I don’t have the millions of dollars to promote what I do like UFC does so I am stuck with all these false perceptions generated by their advertising and events.

Many in this country who used to see the martial arts as a beneficial element now see it as a blood sport and don’t want their children to be involved. There is a MMA school in my city that uses the motto “If you want art…buy a paint brush”. This one line alone has accomplished the destruction of an image that took decades for martial arts schools to generate.

I’m glad you are doing well and that MMA in your part of the world is in a healthy state. Maybe life is a little different there and to be honest I really hope so. But if you ever get the chance to come to the States don’t be so naïve as to think that what you do will be perceived as you are in Briton.
I wish you the best.

Peace…out!

 

[MJS]

If I as an adult got to a martial arts school, doesn't matter what style. I expect that the instructor there is going to teach me that style. So just as an example I go to Johnny's Kenpo Karate school. I expect to learn Kenpo not Taekwondo, or a watered down version of Kenpo. I expect to learn Kenpo. I'm paying for it, I should learn that. Now I say this because the same is true with little Johnny. If he wants to be there, and I mean wants to be there, and mom and dad are paying for it, he should be learning Kenpo, not a watered down, Jr.'s only Kenpo. There is absolutely no reason for why you can not hold a child to the same standards as an adult, in this regard. To teach something that is not complete is a disservice not only to yourself, your students parents, but more importantly to your young student. Where I grew up that kid in the first video would have got stomped on the play ground, I know. That is a disservice to the child. He is not being taught his chosen style. To have a separate kids only style is a disservice to your younger students in my opinion, and is disrespectful not only to them but to there parents. It's basically saying, "Look your too young to be here, and too stupid to handle real karate. So we'll teach you this instead, until your old enough to handle the real karate." That's b.s. to me.

A 7yr old child and a 30yo adult will have a very different understanding of the arts. In the average Parker Kenpo school, there're 24 techs per belt plus the katas/forms/sets, etc. Are you telling me that a 7yr old is going to retain all that? As far as watering down the material....i do not feel that the material should be changed, hwoever, the amount that the child vs. the adult gets will need to be condensed.

Look at Ernie Reyes Jr. By the time he was ten he was competing in adult competitions as a black belt. He couldn't handle real Taekwondo? THe adult material? COme on. Younger students that want to train, will put forth the effort. Those that don't won't. It's simple. If mom and dad don't like that Johnny is still a white or yellow belt, they need to reconsider why there child is going. Are they making him go, even though he'd rather be at home playing video games? Or does he want to go? If they are angry that he's not advancing, the answer is simple, " Martial arts is a very serious study. All of our students regardless of age are held to the same standards. If he isn't at the standard for yellow or orange belt he won't test. If chooses to anyways and he isn't up to par, he won't pass. Little Davy over there showed he is at the standard I hold everyone too, therefore he passes. Furthermore to give your son something that he has not earned is a disservice to him and the other students. I will not disrespect my students any of them including Johnny by dumbing down the material. He is capable of this, and with practice he could be where Davy is, but he chooses not too, and it is evident." It's that simple. Mom and dad can argue all they want, but the bottom line is they know Johnny isn't practicing, and he aint at the same level as the other students.

The odds that we will find somone like ER is slim. I mean, if you took 20 kids that would fit the Jr BB mold, I'd be willing to bet that you'd have 1, maybe 2, if that, that would be able to be placed in the category of someone above average.

To take this one step further if you hold all of your students to the same standards. Maybe Davy will be a jr. bb by the time he's ten looking like an adult bb. When he turns 18 he isn't testing for his 1st dan, he maybe testing for his 4 or 5th perhaps by 18. Cause he put the time in, learned the morals, the ethics, etc...and he learned the adult material from the beginning. Not some watered down children are stupid martial arts. Maybe you'd have fewer children in your classroom. But the ones that you'd have would be really good, and they may move on to other martial arts and bring what they learn there back, and share it with you, and you can learn from the student. Just a few thoughts from a guy who doesn't own or run a school. Take it for what you will.:asian:

Well, heres where we enter a sticky situation. Having someone ranked as a 5th or above if they're only 18, IMHO, smells of McDojo.

 

[Doc]

I'm going to have to disagree with you about children learning slower. I don't care what your reasons are to say this. Your flat wrong. When your young your mind is like a sponge, it can absorg alot of things, because it's never gotten wet yet. That is just utter non-sense. Reality is you shouldn't be teaching children. I noticed you didn't answer the question about charging them for there 1st adult black belt. Why is that?

Furthermore your assumption that bb is more than just skills it is a test of maturity and mindset. I will have to disagree with you on that. IF you don't know the maturity level and mindset of your student after 6 years, you shouldn't be teaching, or you should start thinking about smaller classes so you can get a little more in depth with your students. THey shouldn't be testing even for a jr.bb if they don't have that mindset or the maturity level. THat is not teaching them the same thing as the adults. That is again a dumbing down of the art. I believe it has been said by many martial artists, that the martial arts are 90% mental and 10% physical. That is not holding them to the same standards as the adults. I just don't get it.

Now, children bb's are not why the martial arts get a bad rap. It's because they get there bb and they are not prepared to defend themselves. THe first confrontation they get into they get the snot kicked out of them, well that to a lot people says quite a bit about a martial art. They aren't properly trained. Why? Because it was more valuable to the instructor to collect $65 bucks a month and charge for the tests, and just give out belt rankings than it was to teach. That's the reality. If you train them to defend themselves for real, they will do it, and probably better than most adults. I would go so far as to say it isn't that 1000's of children around the world need a confidence booster for why they join martial arts studios. I would say it probably has more to do with, mom and dad are tired of little johnny coming home with a black eye, having not eaten all day because he got his lunch money stolen. NOw I'm done with this rant, please don't take offense. I just call it like I see it, ( or read it.). On to my next issue.

Essay questions??? THey show the understanding the student has of the art??? Again 5-6 years is a long time to spend teaching somebody something. You should know if he has an understanding of the material before he tests. That's why your the instructor and he's the student. If he doesn't you shouldn't let him test. It's beyond me. Why does it seem to me that everybody that is an instructor here feels like they have to make these tests as hard as they can possibly make them? I realize they are supposed to be hard, but my god man. How hard does it have to be? I mean I hear stories of guys that have to run 5 miles, do 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups, do all of there kata's from white belt to black, spar, and then maybe they'll pass. Unless your in the military is it necassary to run a freaking marathon before you show what you can do? "Well, they have to show they can perform under a high-stress situation." Do you train them that way? Make them do all of those things before class starts? If not why? You know these are the questions that I ask myself when I hear these things. If your going to do that, why not just learn and then teach Krav Maga you know? Alright I'm sorry guys my rant is over.

Hate to interrupt your rant sir, but from my perspective you're really not making much sense. Feel free to have an opinion as I do, but I stated my standards, and you have yours. Perhaps my curriculum is a bit more demanding than yours. While I agree with the push ups and silly excessive physical requirements of endurance, I certainly wish to maintain a high academic standard in addition to the physical demands.

By your standard, no one should have to take an exam who comes to class everyday and answers questions in class. No need for a final exam, let's give everyone a degree, or make them lawyers without taking the bar. Doctors shouldn't test either. Wait, didn't you take an exam when you got your drivers license? Well, what I teach is a little more complex than that, so test they will academically and physically.

As far as children, I don't take them because they do not possess the academic acumen to digest, inculcate, process, and put the information I teach into physical action. I don't take them for the same reason they are in middle school, and not in a university. Everyone has standards, some lower than others.

Teachers tend to attract and produce students at the intellectual level they themselves represent. Smart people don't go to dumb teachers, and smart teachers don't want dumb students. Unfortunately, dumb teachers do produce dumb students. To each his own.

 

[Tez3]

My friend, I live in the United States and though you are correct to remind me that things may be different in the UK, I would like to also remind you that people in this country see and want to emulate what they see on TV and what they see these days is the UFC and Extreme Fighting.

“Perception is reality” and there are many of us who feel more than a little upset because the MMA we see on TV gives people the perception that this is what martial arts is all about. I don’t have the millions of dollars to promote what I do like UFC does so I am stuck with all these false perceptions generated by their advertising and events.

Many in this country who used to see the martial arts as a beneficial element now see it as a blood sport and don’t want their children to be involved. There is a MMA school in my city that uses the motto “If you want art…buy a paint brush”. This one line alone has accomplished the destruction of an image that took decades for martial arts schools to generate.

I’m glad you are doing well and that MMA in your part of the world is in a healthy state. Maybe life is a little different there and to be honest I really hope so. But if you ever get the chance to come to the States don’t be so naïve as to think that what you do will be perceived as you are in Briton.
I wish you the best.

Peace…out!

I'm hardly naive enought to image that what you do over there is the same, I have several friends who fight pro in the states on the big shows including UFC.

Doc, you don't accept someone because they have dyslexia? that frankly is disgusting and one of the most awful things I've ever read. That is discrimination at it's very worse. You should be ashamed of yourself for that attitude. To say I'm shocked is the very least, you deserve absolutely no respect for that. You, sir, have no honour and no place being an instructor.

 

[Doc]

I'm hardly naive enought to image that what you do over there is the same, I have several friends who fight pro in the states on the big shows including UFC.

Doc, you don't accept someone because they have dyslexia? that frankly is disgusting and one of the most awful things I've ever read. That is discrimination at it's very worse. You should be ashamed of yourself for that attitude. To say I'm shocked is the very least, you deserve absolutely no respect for that. You, sir, have no honour and no place being an instructor.

That's political correct nonsense. What makes you think that because I choose to teach, that I automatically must make my labor available to anyone that wants it?

Suppose they have no arms, or perhaps no legs. What if they mentally "challenged?" They don't fit my curriculum standards. They are not taught by me for the same reason that many don't get into the university they want to attend, or qualify for a loan, or are not hired by a company, or can't be police, a doctor, or lawyer.

If I own a gun shop, should I sell a gun to everyone that comes in, or should I be discriminating? Have you got every job you ever applied for, or did they turn you down because they wanted someone different? Hell, they have exclusive night clubs that don't let everyone in unless they meet their standards. People flunk their drivers license test and don't get a license. Everything in this world has a standard. If they don't lie the way you're dressed you can get kicked out of a restaurant. If a freeking cab driver doesn't like your looks he won't stop.

Those that can't get into UCLA, go to Cal State University, and those that can't get in there go to a community college. There is an institution, or entity at every level that will take those that fit their curriculum, service, or standard. I don't take them for the same reason you can't go into a "gentlemen's club." You don't fit the standard, and neither do they. I bet you've turned down more than one guy who asked for your phone number, or wanted to dance, or tried to steal a kiss. Why?

I don't do physically, mentally handicapped, and I don't do kids because the material is over their heads. And as long and I am the teacher, I'll decide who I should teach, not you, or anyone else. Sorry, but in America, that's just how we roll. Get your head out of - the clouds, and put your feet on the ground. I've never heard of anyone that I wouldn't teach, who couldn't find someone who would. They have the absolute right to learn somewhere, but they don't have a right to learn from me. I decide. End of discussion.

 

[GBlues]

First of all in my first post I meant what I said about not running a school. At my level I wouldn't dream of running a school. However, I'm not a stupid man, and I do try not to be rude. I may be from time to time, but do make an honest attempt not to be. So with that being said I do apologize twin fist. However,I personally do not see how somebody can say, " I teach the children the same thing I do the adults, but until there 16 they can not test for an adult black belt. They are jr. and that is all." Well, if your teaching the same material, then there getting the same "deadly" techniques at jr. black belt, that they are going to get at adult black belt. SO why the difference in designation? They technically from what you've said twin are the same. That's was my problem and the question about the testing fees with that. Have had bad experiences with belt tests, I won't go into it here, other than that it does make me feel much better, that at least you, and I know some of the other guys at least have scruples you know.

Now on to the next guys post. Doc I like you man. Have read some of your other posts on here, and your very knowledgeable. I will have to personally take up the issue of final exams. No, I am not saying that there should not be a final exam. There absolutely should be. I personally feel that if a student has demonstrated.....better yet I'll put it a different way. If I haven't shown an understanding of the material, by the time I reach the point to test for black belt. I should NOT be testing. If I ask about it, or approach my instructor I personally expect an honest answer, " Man, Nick, you aint ready. You need more time, you got a lot to learn." YOu know what I mean. I do not expect him to say, " Well here's a 30 question essay test you have to take first to show me that you know and understand the material." What I do expect is that when I'm ready he will approach me and say, " Hey, Nick, you know over the course of the last couple of years you've demonstrated that you understand the concepts and principals of the art here. You clearly understand the philosophy it's probably time that you start thinking about taking your black belt test." I've always kind of been under the impression that it's the instructor that says, " Hey if you think your ready, your more than welcome to test at the next test." Cause' he wouldn't have approached me and said that if he didn't feel that I was. However, from my experience that I've seen you don't approach the instructor. So if you think the guys ready, you already know, that he has an understanding of it. He understands the philosophies and the concepts, and the principals that drive that art. He's not simply a machine performing movements, he's ready to learn the deeper understandings of it. That's my point. The other thing being that while martial arts may be more complex than driving a car. It most certainly is not more deadly. You get your drivers license at 16 where I'm from and it qualifies you to drive a 2 ton weapon, and your doing it at 75-80 mph sometimes. Beyond that you get your permit at 15 years and 7 months to start learning how to drive. 3 months later, your driving alone and by yourself. Kind of a bad analogy. Furthermore doctors should take a test also. Big difference with them also. When they screw up somebody else dies. In martial arts when you screw up, you might die. You know what I'm saying. Last but not least. I don't know if you know what dyslexia is or not. So I'm going to inform you. Dyslexia is a mental disorder that causes some people to read certain letters backwards. Example a, b to them looks like a d, and a p looks like a q. Ok? They're not retards. They look and act very much like you and I, and from looking at them you can not tell the difference. YOu may actually have some dyslexic students and not even know it. YOur welcome.

Ok on to the next person that replied to my post, ( I'm sure not making any friends today, I'll tell ya that much.

), MJS. Ok I absolutely think that a 7 year old can retain that information. Imagine all the things that you had to retain even just when you were 3. If you really think about it, quite a bit. There is no reason for why a child can not retain those things. Unless he a) chooses not too, b) doesn't want to be there to begin with, c) does not practice d) is taught to much at one time, or e) is just flat out mentally disabled. Ok a child that learns 1 or 2 techniques a day, or even a week can very easily retain that. That is not too much to ask from anybody. My freaking dog if trained right, can remember that much.

No we probably like many other martial artists won't see another ER for a long time. That is not to say that it is not possible.

As far as the McDojo thing goes. Look, my point being is that if the kid is up to the same standards as the adults, and is one of those ER type of kids. Loves Martial ARts, practices all the time, flat out lives, breathes, eats, craps, and sleeps martial arts. Then yeah if he learned the same material is held to the same high standards, potentially, if he started at say 3, and got his first black belt at 10, that's only seven years. He potentially could be a 2nd or third degree blackbelt, when he goes to test at 18. He'd have been doing it for 15 years. 4th or 5th was a little high, but I just threw it out there as a point of consideration. He's already got more experience than most of your current students would have by the time he reached 18. Yet, for some reason, it's ok to take that away from him, because he wasn't 18 when he got his first bb. That doesn't sound right, nor just in my mind. If he has put in the work, and has the skills, and is capable of receiveing the level of bb should he not, if he's earned it, keep and continue on in that effort if he so chooses? Furthermore, if a child does not have maturity, and capacity to understand what he's doing, why is he getting even a jr. bb? Shouldn't a jr. bb if he is held to the same standards, have the same moral, and ethical knowledge for his age as an adult? If not, is he really even a jr. bb? See my point? I don't know if I make any sense at all. But I'm trying to get my feelings on the matter out there in a way you guys can understand what I'm trying to say.

I guess what I am in essence saying is that if your going to have a jr. blackbelt, they need to be a blackbelt. If they aren't then don't give jr. blackbelts. I think that is what I'm trying to say. Not that you guys shouldn't but maybe more in general. ANyways I'm tired So, laters.

 

[GBlues]

That's political correct nonsense. What makes you think that because I choose to teach, that I automatically must make my labor available to anyone that wants it?

Suppose they have no arms, or perhaps no legs. What if they mentally "challenged?" They don't fit my curriculum standards. They are not taught by me for the same reason that many don't get into the university they want to attend, or qualify for a loan, or are not hired by a company, or can't be police, a doctor, or lawyer.

If I own a gun shop, should I sell a gun to everyone that comes in, or should I be discriminating? Have you got every job you ever applied for, or did they turn you down because they wanted someone different? Hell, they have exclusive night clubs that don't let everyone in unless they meet their standards. People flunk their drivers license test and don't get a license. Everything in this world has a standard. If they don't lie the way you're dressed you can get kicked out of a restaurant. If a freeking cab driver doesn't like your looks he won't stop.

Those that can't get into UCLA, go to Cal State University, and those that can't get in there go to a community college. There is an institution, or entity at every level that will take those that fit their curriculum, service, or standard. I don't take them for the same reason you can't go into a "gentlemen's club." You don't fit the standard, and neither do they. I bet you've turned down more than one guy who asked for your phone number, or wanted to dance, or tried to steal a kiss. Why?

I don't do physically, mentally handicapped, and I don't do kids because the material is over their heads. And as long and I am the teacher, I'll decide who I should teach, not you, or anyone else. Sorry, but in America, that's just how we roll. Get your head out of - the clouds, and put your feet on the ground. I've never heard of anyone that I wouldn't teach, who couldn't find someone who would. They have the absolute right to learn somewhere, but they don't have a right to learn from me. I decide. End of discussion.

Last post was wrong. You sir, are ignorant!

If I offended....well in an unpollitically correct world I would have to tell you tough ****.

 

[Doc]

First of all in my first post I meant what I said about not running a school. At my level I wouldn't dream of running a school. However, I'm not a stupid man, and I do try not to be rude. I may be from time to time, but do make an honest attempt not to be. So with that being said I do apologize twin fist. However,I personally do not see how somebody can say, " I teach the children the same thing I do the adults, but until there 16 they can not test for an adult black belt. They are jr. and that is all." Well, if your teaching the same material, then there getting the same "deadly" techniques at jr. black belt, that they are going to get at adult black belt. SO why the difference in designation? They technically from what you've said twin are the same. That's was my problem and the question about the testing fees with that. Have had bad experiences with belt tests, I won't go into it here, other than that it does make me feel much better, that at least you, and I know some of the other guys at least have scruples you know.

Now on to the next guys post. Doc I like you man. Have read some of your other posts on here, and your very knowledgeable. I will have to personally take up the issue of final exams. No, I am not saying that there should not be a final exam. There absolutely should be. I personally feel that if a student has demonstrated.....better yet I'll put it a different way. If I haven't shown an understanding of the material, by the time I reach the point to test for black belt. I should NOT be testing. If I ask about it, or approach my instructor I personally expect an honest answer, " Man, Nick, you aint ready. You need more time, you got a lot to learn." YOu know what I mean. I do not expect him to say, " Well here's a 30 question essay test you have to take first to show me that you know and understand the material." What I do expect is that when I'm ready he will approach me and say, " Hey, Nick, you know over the course of the last couple of years you've demonstrated that you understand the concepts and principals of the art here. You clearly understand the philosophy it's probably time that you start thinking about taking your black belt test." I've always kind of been under the impression that it's the instructor that says, " Hey if you think your ready, your more than welcome to test at the next test." Cause' he wouldn't have approached me and said that if he didn't feel that I was. However, from my experience that I've seen you don't approach the instructor. So if you think the guys ready, you already know, that he has an understanding of it. He understands the philosophies and the concepts, and the principals that drive that art. He's not simply a machine performing movements, he's ready to learn the deeper understandings of it. That's my point. The other thing being that while martial arts may be more complex than driving a car. It most certainly is not more deadly. You get your drivers license at 16 where I'm from and it qualifies you to drive a 2 ton weapon, and your doing it at 75-80 mph sometimes. Beyond that you get your permit at 15 years and 7 months to start learning how to drive. 3 months later, your driving alone and by yourself. Kind of a bad analogy. Furthermore doctors should take a test also. Big difference with them also. When they screw up somebody else dies. In martial arts when you screw up, you might die. You know what I'm saying. Last but not least. I don't know if you know what dyslexia is or not. So I'm going to inform you. Dyslexia is a mental disorder that causes some people to read certain letters backwards. Example a, b to them looks like a d, and a p looks like a q. Ok? They're not retards. They look and act very much like you and I, and from looking at them you can not tell the difference. YOu may actually have some dyslexic students and not even know it. YOur welcome.

Ok on to the next person that replied to my post, ( I'm sure not making any friends today, I'll tell ya that much.

), MJS. Ok I absolutely think that a 7 year old can retain that information. Imagine all the things that you had to retain even just when you were 3. If you really think about it, quite a bit. There is no reason for why a child can not retain those things. Unless he a) chooses not too, b) doesn't want to be there to begin with, c) does not practice d) is taught to much at one time, or e) is just flat out mentally disabled. Ok a child that learns 1 or 2 techniques a day, or even a week can very easily retain that. That is not too much to ask from anybody. My freaking dog if trained right, can remember that much.

No we probably like many other martial artists won't see another ER for a long time. That is not to say that it is not possible.

As far as the McDojo thing goes. Look, my point being is that if the kid is up to the same standards as the adults, and is one of those ER type of kids. Loves Martial ARts, practices all the time, flat out lives, breathes, eats, craps, and sleeps martial arts. Then yeah if he learned the same material is held to the same high standards, potentially, if he started at say 3, and got his first black belt at 10, that's only seven years. He potentially could be a 2nd or third degree blackbelt, when he goes to test at 18. He'd have been doing it for 15 years. 4th or 5th was a little high, but I just threw it out there as a point of consideration. He's already got more experience than most of your current students would have by the time he reached 18. Yet, for some reason, it's ok to take that away from him, because he wasn't 18 when he got his first bb. That doesn't sound right, nor just in my mind. If he has put in the work, and has the skills, and is capable of receiveing the level of bb should he not, if he's earned it, keep and continue on in that effort if he so chooses? Furthermore, if a child does not have maturity, and capacity to understand what he's doing, why is he getting even a jr. bb? Shouldn't a jr. bb if he is held to the same standards, have the same moral, and ethical knowledge for his age as an adult? If not, is he really even a jr. bb? See my point? I don't know if I make any sense at all. But I'm trying to get my feelings on the matter out there in a way you guys can understand what I'm trying to say.

I guess what I am in essence saying is that if your going to have a jr. blackbelt, they need to be a blackbelt. If they aren't then don't give jr. blackbelts. I think that is what I'm trying to say. Not that you guys shouldn't but maybe more in general. ANyways I'm tired So, laters.

Well if you put it that way - I think we agree. I do the same with all my students. You may ask to test, but if I don't think you can pass, I say no, you're not ready. I don't have a kid problem, because I don't teach children.

 

[Doc]

Last post was wrong. You sir, are ignorant!

If I offended....well in an unpollitically correct world I would have to tell you tough ****.

Well, I get it from my teacher. There's people he refused to Teach as well. And if you tell me you never been turned down, or away from something you wanted, I'd find that hard to believe. But then, I'm ignorant, and if you didn't understand the perspective I carefully articulated, than perhaps you should wear the title as well. I don't do politically correct. Not my thing. I put my time into teaching the best I can, making my students the best I can.

 

[MJS]

Ok on to the next person that replied to my post, ( I'm sure not making any friends today, I'll tell ya that much.

), MJS. Ok I absolutely think that a 7 year old can retain that information. Imagine all the things that you had to retain even just when you were 3. If you really think about it, quite a bit. There is no reason for why a child can not retain those things. Unless he a) chooses not too, b) doesn't want to be there to begin with, c) does not practice d) is taught to much at one time, or e) is just flat out mentally disabled. Ok a child that learns 1 or 2 techniques a day, or even a week can very easily retain that. That is not too much to ask from anybody. My freaking dog if trained right, can remember that much.

First off, I believe you and I have had some good discussion in the past. I'm not holding anything you say against you personally. As for the rest...like I said, there are always exceptions to the rule, IMHO, however, the number will be a small percentage. I would think that things need to be done in order, from least difficult working up to most difficult. Look at how simple the beginning techs and kata are, vs. more advanced techs/kata. I wouldn't expect a 7yr old to do advanced math if they have not even got the basics down yet. Additionally, things need to be constantly re-enforced. IIRC, I mentioned this in an earlier post. The parents need to play an active roll in their childs training.

No we probably like many other martial artists won't see another ER for a long time. That is not to say that it is not possible.

Agreed.

As far as the McDojo thing goes. Look, my point being is that if the kid is up to the same standards as the adults, and is one of those ER type of kids. Loves Martial ARts, practices all the time, flat out lives, breathes, eats, craps, and sleeps martial arts. Then yeah if he learned the same material is held to the same high standards, potentially, if he started at say 3, and got his first black belt at 10, that's only seven years. He potentially could be a 2nd or third degree blackbelt, when he goes to test at 18. He'd have been doing it for 15 years. 4th or 5th was a little high, but I just threw it out there as a point of consideration. He's already got more experience than most of your current students would have by the time he reached 18. Yet, for some reason, it's ok to take that away from him, because he wasn't 18 when he got his first bb. That doesn't sound right, nor just in my mind. If he has put in the work, and has the skills, and is capable of receiveing the level of bb should he not, if he's earned it, keep and continue on in that effort if he so chooses? Furthermore, if a child does not have maturity, and capacity to understand what he's doing, why is he getting even a jr. bb? Shouldn't a jr. bb if he is held to the same standards, have the same moral, and ethical knowledge for his age as an adult? If not, is he really even a jr. bb? See my point? I don't know if I make any sense at all. But I'm trying to get my feelings on the matter out there in a way you guys can understand what I'm trying to say.

I guess what I am in essence saying is that if your going to have a jr. blackbelt, they need to be a blackbelt. If they aren't then don't give jr. blackbelts. I think that is what I'm trying to say. Not that you guys shouldn't but maybe more in general. ANyways I'm tired So, laters.

Interestingly enough, there have been many times, when I'd show someone a basic tech, walk away for 10min, come back, ask to see it, and they have a hard time. Many times we see kids involved in a bunch of different activities. If 10 kids took a break for the Summer, how many would you honestly say would really put in alot of effort over that time to train? All 10? Half? A few? Keep in mind, they have the choice between training and, the swimming pool, camping trips, sleepovers at a friends, vacations. Who is going to train when they're at Disney or cruising the ocean to Aruba?

 

[terryl965]

I believe this converstation has been productive in one way getting people opinions and I mean opinions.Let me say this when we see Tigr Woods drive a ball 350 yards at the age od 8, everyone says prodigy, when we see a gymnis that can compete at the age of 8 we call them prodigies. When we see a student that is 8 and is in high school they ar prodigies. When we see an 8 year old write there first musical they two are prodigies, but yet a 8 year old is unable to learn everything to be a junior BB interesting. Notice I never said be able to defend themself with a full grown adult. There are always goingro be those that can achieve a high standard even thought they are eight, no not every single child can recieved a BB at that age bit there are some. I know plenty of adult BB that could never protect themself ina real fight, but yet they are BB. I do not recall a BB having ro be able to defens even though that is suppose to be. A BB means they have learned the mateials for that rank, if it was about fighting then they would need to get the **** kick out of them before and during every singlew test. Like alot of you ahve said in other threads people train for different reason some for fitness and some for family time and then those looking foe SD and also remember alot of you said that 98 percent of these people will never ever see any real life SD. So why are we so hung up on the title Junior BB?

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

ATTENTION ALL USERS:

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-Brian R. VanCise
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[MJS]

To further expand on this post from GBlues:

As far as the McDojo thing goes. Look, my point being is that if the kid is up to the same standards as the adults, and is one of those ER type of kids. Loves Martial ARts, practices all the time, flat out lives, breathes, eats, craps, and sleeps martial arts. Then yeah if he learned the same material is held to the same high standards, potentially, if he started at say 3, and got his first black belt at 10, that's only seven years. He potentially could be a 2nd or third degree blackbelt, when he goes to test at 18. He'd have been doing it for 15 years. 4th or 5th was a little high, but I just threw it out there as a point of consideration. He's already got more experience than most of your current students would have by the time he reached 18. Yet, for some reason, it's ok to take that away from him, because he wasn't 18 when he got his first bb. That doesn't sound right, nor just in my mind. If he has put in the work, and has the skills, and is capable of receiveing the level of bb should he not, if he's earned it, keep and continue on in that effort if he so chooses? Furthermore, if a child does not have maturity, and capacity to understand what he's doing, why is he getting even a jr. bb? Shouldn't a jr. bb if he is held to the same standards, have the same moral, and ethical knowledge for his age as an adult? If not, is he really even a jr. bb? See my point? I don't know if I make any sense at all. But I'm trying to get my feelings on the matter out there in a way you guys can understand what I'm trying to say.

I guess what I am in essence saying is that if your going to have a jr. blackbelt, they need to be a blackbelt. If they aren't then don't give jr. blackbelts. I think that is what I'm trying to say. Not that you guys shouldn't but maybe more in general. ANyways I'm tired So, laters.

If I walked into a school and saw a 16yr old 5th degree, I'd laugh and walk the hell out. By the time that kid is 30, he'll be a 10th degree. People ohh and ahh over high rank. Why? Who cares. I want to see what that person can do. I'm interested in their skill. If the child starts at 4 and is 'ready' for a BB by 10, give them the Jr BB instead. Use varying levels of that until they're ready for a full black.

Again, compare the clips I posted. Who do you think is more deserving of a Jr BB....the first clip, or the kids in the Kajukenbo clip? I'm going with the Kaju clip. The kid in the first clip is not worthy of a brown belt, never mind a jr bb. No power, no stances, I'm sorry, he looked awful, and if I was sitting on that panel, I'd fail him.

 

[Twin Fist]

I would say that until you are a school owner, and are in the position of having to teach kids every day you have no freaking clue about the subject.

Hell, till the 60's, NO ONE even taught kids, for lots of legit reasons.

Doc can refuse to teach kids and say it is because "children are not muture enough to handle MA training" and that puts him in the tradition of most of our legendary Grandmasters.

I will not promote anyone under 16 to the rank of 1st degree BB

ever

the can get a Jr BB, and retest at 16, if someone else doesnt like that, they can go down to the local belt factory and take thier kids there

 

[hongkongfooey]

I have to agree with Doc. The PC bullshido that has been crammed down our throats has no place in a martial arts school. Political correctness has done nothing but create a bunch of entitlement babies that believe they deserve something just for showing up. It's not just in Martial Arts, look around at society in general. God forbid someone actually have to put in real hard work to achieve a goal.

 

[Steve]

That's political correct nonsense. What makes you think that because I choose to teach, that I automatically must make my labor available to anyone that wants it?

Suppose they have no arms, or perhaps no legs. What if they mentally "challenged?" They don't fit my curriculum standards. They are not taught by me for the same reason that many don't get into the university they want to attend, or qualify for a loan, or are not hired by a company, or can't be police, a doctor, or lawyer.

If I own a gun shop, should I sell a gun to everyone that comes in, or should I be discriminating? Have you got every job you ever applied for, or did they turn you down because they wanted someone different? Hell, they have exclusive night clubs that don't let everyone in unless they meet their standards. People flunk their drivers license test and don't get a license. Everything in this world has a standard. If they don't lie the way you're dressed you can get kicked out of a restaurant. If a freeking cab driver doesn't like your looks he won't stop.

Those that can't get into UCLA, go to Cal State University, and those that can't get in there go to a community college. There is an institution, or entity at every level that will take those that fit their curriculum, service, or standard. I don't take them for the same reason you can't go into a "gentlemen's club." You don't fit the standard, and neither do they. I bet you've turned down more than one guy who asked for your phone number, or wanted to dance, or tried to steal a kiss. Why?

I don't do physically, mentally handicapped, and I don't do kids because the material is over their heads. And as long and I am the teacher, I'll decide who I should teach, not you, or anyone else. Sorry, but in America, that's just how we roll. Get your head out of - the clouds, and put your feet on the ground. I've never heard of anyone that I wouldn't teach, who couldn't find someone who would. They have the absolute right to learn somewhere, but they don't have a right to learn from me. I decide. End of discussion.

I just want to say that you might be opening yourself up to a lawsuit you would lose. While we are free in this country to discriminate on almost any citeria we choose, there are protected categories and disability is one. Saying you won't accept someone without an arm is functionally no different than saying you won't teach a woman or a caucasian. If you have a private club you might get away with it, but if you run a for-profit business, you could be asking for trouble.

I'm no lawyer, but I did stay at a holiday inn express. Seriously, though, and I know this advise will probably be ignored, if I were you, I'd consult my own attorny to find out if my admissions criteria is illegal. It sounds so based upon my experience. Again, though, I'm not an expert.

 

[Tez3]

I hope you know what dyslexia is? It's not an illness or a physical/mental handicap, it's the inability to see letters and words properly, people with it aren't disabled nor are they mentally handicapped for crying out loud! Schools, colleges and universities take people with dsylexia in all the time, the only difference is they usaully dictate their work and have it typed up for them. How on earth does that affect people with the condition wanting to train in martial arts? Do you stop people who are colour blind, short sighted, long sighted training too?

people with dyslexia include:
Nelson Rockefeller
Cher
Thomas Edison
FW Woolworth
George Patton
Walt Disney
Winston Churchill
Albert Einstein
Tom Cruise
Agatha Christie
George Washington
Stonewall Jackson
Alexander Graham Bell and a few millions others.

Political correctness my ****, ignorance more like.

 

[hongkongfooey]

I hope you know what dyslexia is? It's not an illness or a physical/mental handicap, it's the inability to see letters and words properly, people with it aren't disabled nor are they mentally handicapped for crying out loud! Schools, colleges and universities take people with dsylexia in all the time, the only difference is they usaully dictate their work and have it typed up for them. How on earth does that affect people with the condition wanting to train in martial arts? Do you stop people who are colour blind, short sighted, long sighted training too?

people with dyslexia include:
Nelson Rockefeller
Cher
Thomas Edison
FW Woolworth
George Patton
Walt Disney
Winston Churchill
Albert Einstein
Tom Cruise
Agatha Christie
George Washington
Stonewall Jackson
Alexander Graham Bell and a few millions others.

Political correctness my ****, ignorance more like.

Who was this directed at?

 

[Tez3]

Who was this directed at?

To anyone who thinks it's being politically correct to 'allow' people with dyslexia to train in martial arts, to anyone who thinks dyslexia is an illness or a handicap or a disability. To anyone who has the mistaken idea that the millions of people who have dyslexia are inferior. To the arrogant and the dismissive, to the prats who think the inability to read and write is a pyhsical or mental handicap, to the plonkers who spout arrant nonsense about something they seem to know little about.

That answer the question?

Ps it's not a mental disorder either.