Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[Steve]

What I'm saying and what I've said in the past is the same thing I've said since I joined the site. I don't question the effectiveness of the self-defense techniques used in karate, aikido, bjj, or kung fu, like some of the posters in this long discussion. My technique is questioned every time I've mentioned that I can use a technique or that my school teaches a technique. Think of how many years and how many generations have been involved in developing a fighting system, then all of a sudden someone who is younger than the fighting system comes out and calls the techniques useless, non-effective. Testing a technique is not the same as testing your ability to do a technique.

But time and time again I get questioned about the techniques I use from people who say that I can't do what I'm claiming and not once has anyone asked me what techniques I would use in a particular situation.

Everytime I talk about a technique working it's like I actually have to show a video of myself showing that it works.

The only criticisms that I agree with are in regards to martial art schools that are of "McDojo" quality where schools and instructors make people believe that they have advanced fighting skills that they really don't have. You have never heard me say that a technique is useless simply because I couldn't do it or simply because I'm not in that fighting system. People doubt me when I say that dealing with wild punches and attacks are easy for me to defend against, and not one person has asked me "why is it easy for me to defend against them. It's like people's responses are set on default to call "BS" when some body says that they can do a technique and actually use it. It's all of that stuff that I have issues with.

Ah. Okay. So, you do agree that McDojos are bad. So does Joe rogan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ah. Okay. So, you do agree that McDojos are bad. So does Joe rogan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've never heard Joe Rogan talk about McDojos. I've heard him talk down in a general manner about fighting systems but as far as McDojos go I haven't heard him talk about those. He makes blanket statements about kung fu, tkd, karate, and aikido. Show me a video where he talks about McDojos without mentioning a fighting system.
His statements are always fake kung fu, fake tkd, fake karate, fake aikido. Real MMA Real BJJ. If you can show me a video or article where he talks about McDojos, then I'll take a look at it and see if he agrees with me about McDojos.

My personal opinion is that he likes McDojos because that gives him stuff to talk about and as a commentator that's a good thing.

I don't like McDojos. I have no idea of how Joe feels about them.

 

[Steve]

He talks about training that is unrealistic. Why are yiu personalizing everything? When you talk about your training, you go to great lengths to demonstrate that yiu train in a way that is practical, where you spar and pressure test your individual skills. Good on ya.

I don't think you realize that you aren't the victim here. From what I've seen, you have a pretty good thing going.

 

[geezer]

How is that? I've actually shown videos of myself doing traps. I've actually shown videos of myself defending against a shoot. From what I can tell I'm the only who has shown their ability to do a technique other than one other person who showed a video of him using a backfist to break boards.

So when I say I can hit someone with a staff using a technique from Jow Ga, do you know what technique that I'm talking about using? I do Jow Ga kung fu so I know about the techniques and that it has excellent techniques that use traps. Do you take Jow Ga Kung Fu? Do you know which techniques in Jow Ga use the traps? Do you specifically know which techniques I'm talking about?

Just saying. When I talk about Jow Ga I'm talking about what I do using the techniques in Jow Ga. I'm not saying Jow Ga is better than another martial art. I'm telling you what I actually do.

If you are a person who needs to actually break someone's fingers, or actually hit someone in the head to actually understand that something works then that's on you. You are more than welcome to come to my school and I'll show you how the business end of a staff technique works.

Very good, all that. My comment had nothing to do with videos or proof, ...just a reflection on your great confidence in your system. Hanzou is equally an enthusiastic advocate of his BJJ. Kindred spirits, perhaps?

Hanzou, however, is a big advocate of pressure testing through rolling, sparring and competition. I take it you are not? No matter. I respect your devotion to hard training and belief in your system. I've become more of a skeptic regarding mine (WC). It has some great stuff. It also has some BS. Hanzou can be a bit obnoxious when he points out those flaws. But that doesn't mean he's wrong. So having people actually test each system is a good thing.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Very good, all that. My comment had nothing to do with videos or proof, ...just a reflection on your great confidence in your system. Hanzou is equally an enthusiastic advocate of his BJJ. Kindred spirits, perhaps?

Hanzou, however, is a big advocate of pressure testing through rolling, sparring and competition. I take it you are not? No matter. I respect your devotion to hard training and belief in your system. I've become more of a skeptic regarding mine (WC). It has some great stuff. It also has some BS. Hanzou can be a bit obnoxious when he points out those flaws. But that doesn't mean he's wrong. So having people actually test each system is a good thing.

If I had not confidence in the fighting system then I wouldn't take it. I've felt the power (physical strength) of the instructors and know without a doubt the validity of the system. The best way I can describe it, is that it's almost how one would sense the power of a person's grip via handshake even when they shake your hand softly without crushing it. When my sifu's (both past and current) demonstrated a technique, they were gentle with it but the power still came through.
I'm not sure if you have experienced that before but that's what it was like.

Here's how it works for me:
When I spar it's more about my ability than the technique.
Pressure testing is about me and not the technique. For Hanzou, pressure testing is about the technique and not the ability of the user. When a person looks at it like Hanzou does, then the person may say the technique failed him. Which is what he said about the Jow Ga Sifu that used a striking technique to stop a shoot.

When a person looks at it the way I do then he is more likely to say his lack of ability failed the technique. In the case of the Jow Ga Sifu, my perspective was that the Jow Ga Sifu's inability to pick the correct technique to deal with the shoot is what failed the technique that should have been used instead of striking.

When a technique works for some and not for others, then it's not the technique that is failing, it's the ability to pick and execute the correct technique that determines the success. This isn't saying that a person sucks at what they do, it's just saying that our abilities for certain things will outshine others techniques regardless of what we do.

This is how I think Hanzou and I are different.

 

[drop bear]

Double post so I will throw the idea in here. Don't fault the technique?

Some styles are just dumb. There is no quality control in martial arts.

 

[drop bear]

ahhh now I see where the confusion is. You aren't testing the technique you are testing your ability to use the technique. Just because you can't use a technique effectively doesn't mean that it doesn't work. This has more to do with your abilities than the technique.

I am testing the technique. I am testing my ability to use the technique and I am testing the other guys ability to resist the technique.

All three factors are vital in determining whether the technique works or not.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Double post so I will throw the idea in here. Don't fault the technique?

Some styles are just dumb. There is no quality control in martial arts.

Aerobic Self Defense - At least you would be fit when you get beaten up.

 

[Marnetmar]

It's not that my art is lacking in certain areas, it's just that nobody knows how to use it properly but me!

^95% of this thread

 

[JowGaWolf]

Double post so I will throw the idea in here. Don't fault the technique?

Some styles are just dumb. There is no quality control in martial arts.

Before I get accuse of supporting bad technique, I don't. Skip to the end where I say the techniques are faulty for a fighting system.

That's horrible and I mean the music. lol. Their approach is just terrible
Well the good news is that they are still in business. They push their product as aerobics self-defense mix. They don't consider themselves as a fighting system
Self-Defense has no quality control. Martial arts has quality control limited to the association that monitors the quality if any. Self-defense doesn't mean good fighting. Here's a good example of great self defense actually being used by a 6 year old. Is it the best fighting technique? Not even close. Does it work as a self-defense technique? yeah it seems to work really well because she's not the only child that has used this tactic.

I give self defense tactic a little more breathing room for effectiveness than I do fighting systems because doing something is better than doing nothing. It turns out clawing at the face works sometimes.

I would never recommend those techniques as part of a fighting system because they are faulty and obviously weren't designed by someone who understands fighting. It look to me as if someone took a look at a martial arts movie and decided that it would be a good idea for self defense. However a lucky elbow to the head or a fist to the nuts is better than doing nothing. From the videos 2 different people did less than that and it worked.
Not justifying the video to be of any value, but next month I'm holding a self-defense course and part of the challenge that I have is showing self-defense methods that can be done with the minimum amount of conditioning. There aren't many, even the simple grab escapes are only going to be limited to certain grabs and they would still need to practice them in order for the movement to be natural. I already know that part of the lesson is going to be. "better to do anything than to go quietly" that includes doing stuff like that in the video. Like the 6 year old girl said, kick and scream as hard as you can.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Aerobic Self Defense - At least you would be fit when you get beaten up.

I would be shocked if I haven't seen or heard worse lol.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I would agree with Joe on this one... This is crap, bad technique, fake fighting, bad fighting system. This is where I could see testing the fighting system comes into play. If I walked him into the school I would have instantly show me how it works. Like literally use it on me lol. Definitely test any crap that looks unrealistic not by trying it yourself. Don't waste your time, but have the teacher, who has more experience to pull it off, show you how it will works.

 

[drop bear]

I would be shocked if I haven't seen or heard worse lol.

There was worse. I don't think I would be allowed to show it. It involved rape defence and a cucumber.

 

[drop bear]

I would agree with Joe on this one... This is crap, bad technique, fake fighting, bad fighting system. This is where I could see testing the fighting system comes into play. If I walked him into the school I would have instantly show me how it works. Like literally use it on me lol. Definitely test any crap that looks unrealistic not by trying it yourself. Don't waste your time, but have the teacher, who has more experience to pull it off, show you how it will works.

OK so why isn't that principle sound across the board. Like every time you escape a bear hug and the partner let's go. Or suddenly you do flips to help a wrist lock throw work.

I use bear hug because if they don't let go you generally don't get out.

Good back control is a really dominant position. So S.Ders get stuck in this choice between a technique that may not work and a situation that is not realistic.

 

[JowGaWolf]

There was worse. I don't think I would be allowed to show it. It involved rape defence and a cucumber.

ha ha ha.. if you are talking about that video where the guy says crap on yourself and then rub it all over you then. too late. If you aren't talking about that video then I'm glad I haven't seen it.

 

[renc]

The point is this; If you want to train in weapons, it makes more sense to learn how to use a gun, or take a FMA and learn to use knives and batons. You can actually carry those around and protect yourself. The idea that learning an ancient Chinese sword form from the 12th century is a good idea for self defense purposes is pretty laughable.

Most of what is learned from the Chinese sword forms we do can be applied to a stick weapon down to about the length of a forearm, like a baton. Some can be applied to a weapon of any length. Sword forms and basics are good for arm conditioning, which is good for empty hand.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Actually most people use guns, most people use knives. A crazy minority uses weapons from centuries ago.

The point is this; If you want to train in weapons, it makes more sense to learn how to use a gun, or take a FMA and learn to use knives and batons. You can actually carry those around and protect yourself. The idea that learning an ancient Chinese sword form from the 12th century is a good idea for self defense purposes is pretty laughable.

As mentioned in the previous post...it can be transferable in to

care to talk more about things you do not know about...like the whole Sanda thing

 

[JowGaWolf]

OK so why isn't that principle sound across the board. Like every time you escape a bear hug and the partner let's go. Or suddenly you do flips to help a wrist lock throw work.

I use bear hug because if they don't let go you generally don't get out.

Good back control is a really dominant position. So S.Ders get stuck in this choice between a technique that may not work and a situation that is not realistic.

Which principle are you referring to?
As for the bear hug in that video I know nothing about that technique they are showing. I'm going to assume that the technique works when the grip isn't locked. I'm also going to assume that it only works when groin is within striking range and that's not always the case, with bear hugs from behind. It may work against your average attacker but with so many people taking MMA classes. I wouldn't want bet all my money on the hopes that I hit the groin hard enough to cause the attacker to naturally flinch or loosen the grip.

I like the BJJ approach and similar approaches because they are simple and they address the issue of leverage which prevent the slam that usually follows a bear hug. On a personal level I rather have to deal with that type of bear hug than the one that goes under the arms or the one that pins one of my arms to my body. The under the arms bear hugs makes leaning forward useless. Like you state back control is a really dominant position.

 

[Hanzou]

OK so why isn't that principle sound across the board. Like every time you escape a bear hug and the partner let's go. Or suddenly you do flips to help a wrist lock throw work.

I use bear hug because if they don't let go you generally don't get out.

Good back control is a really dominant position. So S.Ders get stuck in this choice between a technique that may not work and a situation that is not realistic.

What do you think of this defense in comparison?

Interestingly, I was taught a completely different defense in my Bjj gym. If I find it I'll post it up.

 

[Buka]

What do you think of this defense in comparison?

Interestingly, I was taught a completely different defense in my Bjj gym. If I find it I'll post it up.

When I step behind them I bring/jam my outside leg close in to their legs. It seems to help me the best, maybe because I'm a lightweight. Sometimes I throw that inside leg out behind their legs, (like the vid) bringing them down (me meeting floor first) kind of similar to the counter of a standing arm drag. Then I scramble like crazy, almost in a panic.

Sometimes I grab their legs and pull the legs up, depending. (You know how it is.) And sometimes a rear head but starts it off or comes somewhere in the middle - as was taught to me in, of all things, BJJ.