Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[drop bear]

No problem drip bear.....

 

[JowGaWolf]

OK. So a bunch of guys and a weapon can beat down a pro fighter. I am happy to go with that.

I am not sure how you are making a link to anything there.

Only one guy beat him with the weapon. He was the smart one. The others beat him after he was laying on his back after the weapon attack. So no, it wasn't a bunch of guys that beat him, just the guy with the stick.

 

[JowGaWolf]

So how do you know that works better than wild swinging? Who have you tested it on?

I don't know if it works or doesn't to find out I would have to get a stick and beat on someone with it. This is the same way I test all my martial arts.

I have done stick and knife by the way. I am not confident in the practicality of all but the simplest stuff.

Hand trapping was something I could never pull off safely. Nobody could pull off hand trapping safely on me. And I would not have known that if I did not test with resistance.

Because wild swinging isn't targeted and it's always over committed. Wild swinging opens you up to brutal counters.
Do you need to test finger break to know if you bend a finger backwards that it will eventually break?

I'm confident in my staff skills and I don't have any doubt about my abilities to some of the techniques. Including dealing with someone who is wildly swinging a stick.

I can do hand trapping with no problem. I do it all the time and it's not a difficult technique in Jow Ga. If you put your hands in the wrong position not only will I trap that hand I'll punch you with the same hand that I used to trap. I can't speak for your system, but Jow Ga has excellent techniques that use traps and parries.

 

[geezer]

Because wild swinging isn't targeted and it's always over committed. Wild swinging opens you up to brutal counters.
Do you need to test finger break to know if you bend a finger backwards that it will eventually break?

I'm confident in my staff skills and I don't have any doubt about my abilities to some of the techniques. Including dealing with someone who is wildly swinging a stick.

I can do hand trapping with no problem. I do it all the time and it's not a difficult technique in Jow Ga. If you put your hands in the wrong position not only will I trap that hand I'll punch you with the same hand that I used to trap. I can't speak for your system, but Jow Ga has excellent techniques that use traps and parries.

Yoda say: To Jow Ga you are what to BJJ Hanzou is.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yoda say: To Jow Ga you are what to BJJ Hanzou is.

How is that? I've actually shown videos of myself doing traps. I've actually shown videos of myself defending against a shoot. From what I can tell I'm the only who has shown their ability to do a technique other than one other person who showed a video of him using a backfist to break boards.

So when I say I can hit someone with a staff using a technique from Jow Ga, do you know what technique that I'm talking about using? I do Jow Ga kung fu so I know about the techniques and that it has excellent techniques that use traps. Do you take Jow Ga Kung Fu? Do you know which techniques in Jow Ga use the traps? Do you specifically know which techniques I'm talking about?

Just saying. When I talk about Jow Ga I'm talking about what I do using the techniques in Jow Ga. I'm not saying Jow Ga is better than another martial art. I'm telling you what I actually do.

If you are a person who needs to actually break someone's fingers, or actually hit someone in the head to actually understand that something works then that's on you. You are more than welcome to come to my school and I'll show you how the business end of a staff technique works.

 

[drop bear]

Only one guy beat him with the weapon. He was the smart one. The others beat him after he was laying on his back after the weapon attack. So no, it wasn't a bunch of guys that beat him, just the guy with the stick.

It dosent matter if a guy beat him with bad breath. What does that have to do with either kung fu or akido weapons training?

 

[drop bear]

Because wild swinging isn't targeted and it's always over committed. Wild swinging opens you up to brutal counters.
Do you need to test finger break to know if you bend a finger backwards that it will eventually break?

I'm confident in my staff skills and I don't have any doubt about my abilities to some of the techniques. Including dealing with someone who is wildly swinging a stick.

I can do hand trapping with no problem. I do it all the time and it's not a difficult technique in Jow Ga. If you put your hands in the wrong position not only will I trap that hand I'll punch you with the same hand that I used to trap. I can't speak for your system, but Jow Ga has excellent techniques that use traps and parries.

Yes I understand that you are confident in your skills. How have you gained that confidence?

Boxing also has traps and parries. Try it with a stick or knife and i just don't seem to have the time to do it. And I know this because I have gotten a rubber knife and a padded stick and tested it against the best people I could find.

For me it was more like this

Than this.

 

[paitingman]

It's easy to hate on Rogan here, but I feel like most of us ultimately share the same sentiment and frustration as Joe. He just tends to speak in pretty absolute terms whether he intends to or not, and it stirs up a fuss on here. BUT the root of those absolute statements he makes I think is common within a lot of us.

He's not a fan of trickery/fraud/mcdojo/or just poor training. period.

Just like his statements about sparring; a lot here stated that "no sparring equals not a real tma(or an improperly trained tma)"
but most of us would sort of agree that for combatives or martial arts training, it's pretty empty without sparring or ring time of some sort. sparring is huge in developing yourself.
Joe says you gotta spar-most of us would agree sparring is super beneficial if not necessary.

or when we talk about true tma training vs mcdojo stuff (not properly training aspects of the system, no context/or reasoning with traditional training methods, no sparring, etc.)

Joe does the same. In one of the videos he states that they definitely are "a lot of guys who are legit about it" as in they train their *** off and in the context of what he was specifically talking about "the real unification of mind and body 'zen thing'"
same as us, he makes a clear distinction between those are legit in tma and those who aren't.
The way he speaks just sorta pisses people off.

 

[Steve]

Yes I understand that you are confident in your skills. How have you gained that confidence?

Boxing also has traps and parries. Try it with a stick or knife and i just don't seem to have the time to do it. And I know this because I have gotten a rubber knife and a padded stick and tested it against the best people I could find.

For me it was more like this

Than this.

just to be clear, from my perspective, both of those videos are examples of aspects of training that are important. Drills are important,,and I'd go so far as to say that every martial arts school does this. What the dog brothers gathering shows is also extremely important, and I think we all agree that not all ma schools meet this need.

 

[Hanzou]

Yes I understand that you are confident in your skills. How have you gained that confidence?

Boxing also has traps and parries. Try it with a stick or knife and i just don't seem to have the time to do it. And I know this because I have gotten a rubber knife and a padded stick and tested it against the best people I could find.

For me it was more like this

Than this.

Yep. The Dog Brothers clip teaches us that fighting ain't pretty, and even if you're armed someone can wrap you up and take you to the pavement.

 

[Hanzou]

Not so practical. Butterfly knives -- Balisongs that is, are illegal to carry in many locals, as are collapsible batons. On the other hand, where I live, guns can be carried openly or concealed most public places without a permit. Some consider carrying almost a civic duty. Lacking a gun, an ordinary locking knife is a popular alternative.

Carrying guns in AZ, a civic duty!

Personally, I depend on avoiding conflict. Failing that, I practice a lot identifying and using improvised weapons available in the kinds of places I frequent. I'm short, middle-aged, polite and unassuming, and sometimes ...angry. Call me Lester. Check this clip 1:10 - 1:20:

Well yeah they're illegal to carry, but they're also easy to conceal and deploy. I mean, you're more likely to get stopped by the cops for carrying around a samurai sword than having a balisong in your back pocket. For that matter, learning to use a baton makes more sense than learning to use a 6ft staff.

 

[TSDTexan]

I'd be carrying a lot more than a machete if I was walking through some parts of Mexico.

Just saying.



Hopefully he taught you how to use knives, not butterfly swords.



Hence why I said the industrialized world. Again, if I'm traveling through the third world, I'd be carrying way more than just a machete.

This is what he trained me in.

Which were immediately comfortably as I had learned how to use a Scotish short cutlass (left handed because I am a Clan Kerr decendant who is left handed)

And a main gauche in the right hand (very unorthodox)
Like the one below sans compass.

I had become accustomed to the weight of ratan based versions of these two while "playing" in the SCA heavy weapons group. I learned the finer points of using them when I was in Stuttgart, and in Scotland (freazing my arze off)

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yes I understand that you are confident in your skills. How have you gained that confidence?

I gain confidence by doing effective training and conditioning. The Sunday class is specifically designed for focusing on strength, power, speed, accuracy, and conditioning of the body, joints, ligaments, tendons, muscles, and bone. The exercises that we do are designed to make us more effective with the techniques. The I practice how to stay calm during a flurry of attacks both controlled and wild (with and without charging). I practice how to analyze while chaos is beating down on me. My confidence comes from my purpose and intent in my training which is to be a better fighter than I was the day before using the techniques of the fighting system. My confidence also comes from the validity of the fighting system and that the techniques work, and that all I need to learn is how to use the techniques properly and at the right time.

Boxing also has traps and parries. Try it with a stick or knife and i just don't seem to have the time to do it

The traps and parries for weapons are not the same as traps and parries for punching. Boxing doesn't train against weapons so it makes no sense for someone to use a trap/parry that is designed for a punch against a weapon.

I've watched the dog brother's video that you posted and out of all of the attacks that you showed there were 2 things that worked and I knew would work without ever having to test it against someone. The front kick and getting closer to the opponent reduces the impact of the swing those are basic concepts of fighting. I don't know of any fighting system that doesn't have this basic understanding. I also saw a lot of over committed swings. As a counter fighter my opponent's over commitment is my advantage. The heavier a weapon is the more problems over committed swings will cause for the person using it.

My question to is this: If you don't trust your fighting system or your teacher when he/she says that a technique will work, then why are you learning that system and from that person? Why would you learn from someone or a system that you don't trust?

 

[drop bear]

just to be clear, from my perspective, both of those videos are examples of aspects of training that are important. Drills are important,,and I'd go so far as to say that every martial arts school does this. What the dog brothers gathering shows is also extremely important, and I think we all agree that not all ma schools meet this need.

Yeah. I agree with that as well.

 

[drop bear]

My question to is this: If you don't trust your fighting system or your teacher when he/she says that a technique will work, then why are you learning that system and from that person? Why would you learn from someone or a system that you don't trust?

Because I take that technique and test it. There are plenty of techniques that work for my instructor that don't work for me.

I trust my instructor because he doesn't just tell me a technique will work.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Because I take that technique and test it. There are plenty of techniques that work for my instructor that don't work for me.

I trust my instructor because he doesn't just tell me a technique will work.

ahhh now I see where the confusion is. You aren't testing the technique you are testing your ability to use the technique. Just because you can't use a technique effectively doesn't mean that it doesn't work. This has more to do with your abilities than the technique.

 

[Steve]

ahhh now I see where the confusion is. You aren't testing the technique you are testing your ability to use the technique. Just because you can't use a technique effectively doesn't mean that it doesn't work. This has more to do with your abilities than the technique.

Nothing matters if you can't perform the technique. The technique may work, but if you can't execute it, it is worthless to you.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nothing matters if you can't perform the technique. The technique may work, but if you can't execute it, it is worthless to you.

I agree which is why I continue to practice the techniques that are difficult for me to do or use. I increase my ability to use the technique and if I can't raise my ability high enough then it becomes a technique that is beyond my ability. I don't find fault in the technique, I find fault in my limitation.

 

[Steve]

I agree which is why I continue to practice the techniques that are difficult for me to do or use. I increase my ability to use the technique and if I can't raise my ability high enough then it becomes a technique that is beyond my ability. I don't find fault in the technique, I find fault in my limitation.

And so the question for you is, when people criticize martial arts schools for things you seem to agree with, why are you still arguing? You seem to agree with the criticisms. I truly don't understand. When I read what drop bear says and what you say, it looks like the same thing to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JowGaWolf]

And so the question for you is, when people criticize martial arts schools for things you seem to agree with, why are you still arguing? You seem to agree with the criticisms. I truly don't understand. When I read what drop bear says and what you say, it looks like the same thing to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What I'm saying and what I've said in the past is the same thing I've said since I joined the site. I don't question the effectiveness of the self-defense techniques used in karate, aikido, bjj, or kung fu, like some of the posters in this long discussion. My technique is questioned every time I've mentioned that I can use a technique or that my school teaches a technique. Think of how many years and how many generations have been involved in developing a fighting system, then all of a sudden someone who is younger than the fighting system comes out and calls the techniques useless, non-effective. Testing a technique is not the same as testing your ability to do a technique.

But time and time again I get questioned about the techniques I use from people who say that I can't do what I'm claiming and not once has anyone asked me what techniques I would use in a particular situation.

Everytime I talk about a technique working it's like I actually have to show a video of myself showing that it works.

The only criticisms that I agree with are in regards to martial art schools that are of "McDojo" quality where schools and instructors make people believe that they have advanced fighting skills that they really don't have. You have never heard me say that a technique is useless simply because I couldn't do it or simply because I'm not in that fighting system. People doubt me when I say that dealing with wild punches and attacks are easy for me to defend against, and not one person has asked me "why is it easy for me to defend against them. It's like people's responses are set on default to call "BS" when some body says that they can do a technique and actually use it. It's all of that stuff that I have issues with.