Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[drop bear]

OMG ..Why does everything need to be visual in here. It's not rocket science.

MMA FIGHTER VS STICK.

The guy with the stick did akido?

 

[drop bear]

You are right people do martial arts for other reasons other than self-defense but if they plan on doing self-defense then they better accept the idea that they have to conditioned and trained to be able to do the self-defense techniques when or if the time comes to use it in a real fight. I don't train weapons just for the fun of it. I train weapons so that I can actually use them in a real fight. And that's my valid reason. When I train with my staff I train so I can fight with it.

Against unarmed people or untrained ones?

 

[Steve]

So we could get an akido guy in and get first hand sword experience?

Cos a lot of guys here are getting their butts kicked.

You can even get larp swords. Which is cool.

That looks like a blast, frankly.

 

[JowGaWolf]

At the moment I'm training to fight using the staff against unarmed people and untrained people. The techniques in the staff form that I know have attacks that can be use against both unarmed people and armed people. I haven't quite mastered connecting the power from my waist to my staff with all my techniques. I don't have the skull cracking power with all of my techniques as well.

This is similar to the staff form that my lineage does. The form I use has many of the techniques in these videos just not in the same order.

I go about the same speed as well because I don't have enough strength and connection with my body to the staff to do full force without my staff throwing me around. The slow speed is because the staff they are using are heavier than what you see many karate practitioners use. To give you an idea of how light some karate staffs are, skip to the 0:26 mark and watch it actually hit some people. Clearly not a fighting weapon being used.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The guy with the stick did akido?

I don't know. I just know one person had a stick and basically clubbed the guy without a stick (weapon vs no weapon). No awareness either because the guy without the stick moved away from the stick when he should have been moving in towards the stick (mark 0:46)

 

[Hanzou]

Yep. This is the latest debate.
And while I handicap a mma at 15%... folks says thats imagination. Yet they won't even say 50/50.

The other stipulation is no weapons/weapons defense in the MMA guy.

Yeah because people tend to not carry around medieval weapons to fight. They carry pepper spray, hidden knives, and guns.

Seriously, what's the difference between a guy who dresses up like a Japanese samurai from the Middle Ages, and the people who dress up for the Renaissance fair?

 

[TSDTexan]

I don't know. I just know one person had a stick and basically clubbed the guy without a stick (weapon vs no weapon). No awareness either because the guy without the stick moved away from the stick when he should have been moving in towards the stick (mark 0:46)

I think the bokken armed Aikidoka would do even better.
But youtube counts in dropbears system of evidence.

Guy with a stick > mma fighter.

 

[elder999]

It still remains that an unarmed opponent without training in weapons or weapon defence is going after a guy who has a deadly weapon, is proficient and has more then three feet of range.

Its very one sided.

While the guy with the nice long club might have an advantage (a weapon is a "force multiplier" and an advantage even for the untrained) I should also point out (since we've gone down this road) that most aiki-ken training has next to nothing to do with actually cutting or even hitting someone with a sword.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So if you have you sword out and I slap you. You could use a restraint or something?

You start with the false assumption that just because I have a sword (or knife, or whatever) that it is drawn. I do not have to choose to drawn the weapon.
If I did have it in hand, I could certainly choose to use it in any number of ways that are unlikely to be lethal.
You slap. I could block your slap using the flat of the blade. I could slap your head with the flat of the blade. I could inflict a superficial cut to your arm by blocking with the edge. I could cut you on various other body parts, in ways and locations that are very unlikely to be fatal. I could inflict more serious (but still survivable) cuts to the torso. I could do my best to remove your arm. I could run you through.
This is by no means a complete list of the options available.

How do the other 30% of confrontations end?

Mostly, with the weapon being fired. Doesn't necessarily mean a fatal shot. of course. Statistically, the police will miss with roughly 3/4 of their shots. So it's reasonable to assume that if that entire 30% results in a weapon being fired, most will still result in no injury.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Yeah because people tend to not carry around medieval weapons to fight. They carry pepper spray, hidden knives, and guns.

Seriously, what's the difference between a guy who dresses up like a Japanese samurai from the Middle Ages, and the people who dress up for the Renaissance fair?

Medieval weapon attacks
Woman attacked with medieval weapon while walking her dog in California
Baltimore Man Was Attacked With Medieval Weapons While Chillin In The Park
Girl brings medieval weapons to school and attacks classmates

People who have carried swords to a fight
Samurai Vigilante Draws Sword On Phoenix Light Rail, Breaks Up Brawl (VIDEO)
Samurai sword-wielding Mormon bishop comes to aid of woman being attacked (Video)
Store Clerk Has A Bigger Blade
Sword Fights Break Out In A Clash At India's Golden Temple
Video of the sword fight in India
Couple arrested after hookah bar sword fight

I don't think it's about carrying around medieval weapon. It's about using a weapon and that's what these things are. It's just that these people choose to use these types of weapons. Some people shoot guns, others use knives, and then you have those who prefer the long blade. Cold Steel makes combat ready swords with the understanding that people who buy their swords have no problem with wanting to use it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You start with the false assumption that just because I have a sword (or knife, or whatever) that it is drawn. I do not have to choose to drawn the weapon.
If I did have it in hand, I could certainly choose to use it in any number of ways that are unlikely to be lethal.
You slap. I could block your slap using the flat of the blade. I could slap your head with the flat of the blade. I could inflict a superficial cut to your arm by blocking with the edge. I could cut you on various other body parts, in ways and locations that are very unlikely to be fatal. I could inflict more serious (but still survivable) cuts to the torso. I could do my best to remove your arm. I could run you through.
This is by no means a complete list of the options available.



Mostly, with the weapon being fired. Doesn't necessarily mean a fatal shot. of course. Statistically, the police will miss with roughly 3/4 of their shots. So it's reasonable to assume that if that entire 30% results in a weapon being fired, most will still result in no injury.

I own 5 or 6 combat ready sword they aren't razor sharp, but they are heavy and getting hit with the flat of the blade is going to hurt. Wooden sheaths make an excellent secondary weapon as well, those things aren't soft either. When I first held a real sword, the first thing that went through my mind is just how strong a fighter would have to be to use a sword effectively.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Since fencing means "sparring with swords"...

Or 'hocking stolen merchandise'.

 

[RTKDCMB]

If you defined this by scientific method. Many martial arts would just fall over.

The scientific method does not require everything to be personally witnessed as they happen in real time. If it did then chemical reactions and the atomic nucleus would not pass either. The pressure testing I assume you are referring to (full contact competition fighting) is not the only line of evidence for the determination of an arts effectiveness or the effectiveness of any of its techniques.

 

[RTKDCMB]

But more is not necessarily better. ... don't make those mistakes with me in kumite....

I am not sure what you mean here.

You also omitted Laszlos' demo was purely instruction in its objective.

Generally myself and those in my school do not do instructional videos of that sort, you might find some basic techniques and stances or patterns but not board breaking of self defense instructional videos. We have the philosophy of 'if you want to learn something come to class and learn it properly'. It can be irresponsible to teach some things online (I have seen people break their hands on just two boards), in other words "kids, don't try this at home'.

TW, I never break boards down like in your demo because it is the easiest way to break them.... dropping one's body weight behind the strike. Good practice though for schooling those unwitting\ guard Gracie-like grapple-rs who landed on the bottom.

I generally don't break boards down like that because it is easier to break that way, if that were the case I would just foot stomp on them. I break them like that because they are downward techniques. I have broken the same amount of boards with a punch in the horizontal direction. Now I did the downward break on 3 boards first because I wanted to see how much resistance 3 boards would have in the punch before doing it horizontally but I broke the 3 boards with a downward strike because I had never tried breaking boards that way before (it was always with tiles before that).

The point is that 'dorky' Laszlo has technique is better than your form, especially in KIME.

How so?

Laszlo, like me, is more disciplined mentally in applying that KIME, and it shows on how he moves.

And how am I less disciplined, based on our respective videos?

Laszlo is SMOOTH & precise (pretty much so), you are somewhat forced.... to begin with.

How so?

but you would likely had trouble recovering from the sweep based on your BB routine....

That is conjecture as there is nothing in my videos that even hints at being unable to deal with sweeps. I have not included any sparring or anything that would suggest that is true.

 

[Xue Sheng]

And now will continue to do so.
Acheeedo.

No problem drip bear.....

 

[Hanzou]

Medieval weapon attacks
Woman attacked with medieval weapon while walking her dog in California
Baltimore Man Was Attacked With Medieval Weapons While Chillin In The Park
Girl brings medieval weapons to school and attacks classmates

People who have carried swords to a fight
Samurai Vigilante Draws Sword On Phoenix Light Rail, Breaks Up Brawl (VIDEO)
Samurai sword-wielding Mormon bishop comes to aid of woman being attacked (Video)
Store Clerk Has A Bigger Blade
Sword Fights Break Out In A Clash At India's Golden Temple
Video of the sword fight in India
Couple arrested after hookah bar sword fight

I don't think it's about carrying around medieval weapon. It's about using a weapon and that's what these things are. It's just that these people choose to use these types of weapons. Some people shoot guns, others use knives, and then you have those who prefer the long blade. Cold Steel makes combat ready swords with the understanding that people who buy their swords have no problem with wanting to use it.

Actually most people use guns, most people use knives. A crazy minority uses weapons from centuries ago.

The point is this; If you want to train in weapons, it makes more sense to learn how to use a gun, or take a FMA and learn to use knives and batons. You can actually carry those around and protect yourself. The idea that learning an ancient Chinese sword form from the 12th century is a good idea for self defense purposes is pretty laughable.

 

[ballen0351]

drip bear.....

A good antibiotic can clear that up

 

[TSDTexan]

Actually most people use guns, most people use knives. A crazy minority uses weapons from centuries ago.

The point is this; If you want to train in weapons, it makes more sense to learn how to use a gun, or take a FMA and learn to use knives and batons. You can actually carry those around and protect yourself. The idea that learning an ancient Chinese sword form from the 12th century is a good idea for self defense purposes is pretty laughable.

People give Wing Chun a hard time. Maybe because it hasnt done well in ufc. However, if a WC guy just happens to live in a jurisdiction where blades are permitted as SD and he just happens to live in a bad side of town... you would definitely develop an appreciation for the butterfly swords.

This art is pretty old, and comes out of whitecrane which is far older and white crane has sword forms that can done with butterflies.

Dont knock it because it is old. A blade of steel a foot long or longer is a viable form of sd. Don't let prejudice make you blind. Because the training is old.

Guns are great til it jams or is out of ammo.
Knives are short and swords are long. I would say a machete is more sword than knife.

In Mexico there is an indigenous machete martial art. And there are machete dancers. Very dangerous dudes.
Federales might freak out on you for a gun if you dont have some bribe money. But they never say a word about machetes. In the these area way out in deep Mexico only government shoots people. Men kill each other with Mexican swords.

Sometimes a group on group fight breaks out.
The federales show up.
And allow two individuals to keep on fighting.

Sometimes the duelist you think has the right moves will lose

This one happened in Nicaragua. Notice his defense after the the guy was disarms.

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

Word is this guy died.

 

[TSDTexan]

A good antibiotic can clear that up

Bwahaha. I just spewed flaming hot coffee. Damn it burns.

 

[elder999]

I think the bokken armed Aikidoka would do even better.
But youtube counts in dropbears system of evidence.

Guy with a stick > mma fighter.

What was so funny about my first post on this?

As someone with direct and relevant experience with aiki ken, and some experience with actual Japanese katana work, I can tell you that the focus of aiki ken, and the product of its training, has very little to do (for most) with actually using a sword in combat. It's all about body mechanics, and lessons that translate into empty hand movement. That isn't to say that someone who trained in aiki-ken couldn't bash someone decently enough with a stick....but they're not "swordsmen."