Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[Drose427]

Because hitting a board is different than hitting a person.



You're forgetting that there's practical uses for the gi versions of the ezekiel choke and the gi version of uchi mata. The kata/traditional version of the reverse punch will get you killed in a fist fight because it leaves your face wide open.



Yeah, that's called a stylistic difference between boxers. We're talking about karateka being trained one way in kata, and then supposedly trained a different way in sparring.

how is hitting board different from hitting a person other than how it feels on your foot?

"Boards dont hit back?"

Right, which is why white belts learn to set things up.

Is the technique of a throw or sub 100% diiferent on a dummy? c'mon now

and dropping your hand to your waist in a boxing match wont?

thats ridiculous and you know it.

the punch isnt whats different, the set up is.

Cant be any clearer than that.

The stance and chamber are the set up, not the reverse punch.

its that simple. You can throw a reverse punch on the shoulder if you want.

 

[Drose427]

Looks a lot like old fashioned bareknuckle boxing, before the use of gloves and rules prohibiting knees and such.

Fancy that! It's almost as if the demands of the context for which we train modifies how we apply our training.

Edit: and, yes, I'm aware that they're practicing with gloves.

Thank god those leggings went away from bouts.....

Cant imagine folks would be as intimidating in those XD

 

[Argus]

Because hitting a board is different than hitting a person.



You're forgetting that there's practical uses for the gi versions of the ezekiel choke and the gi version of uchi mata. You're taught two different versions because you may encounter someone wearing loose fitting clothes, or you may encounter someone wearing a t-shirt.

The kata/traditional version of the reverse punch will get you killed in a fist fight because it leaves your face wide open.



Yeah, that's called a stylistic difference between boxers. We're talking about karateka being trained one way in kata, and then supposedly trained a different way in sparring.

I'm always half in agreement, and half in disagreement with your posts, Hanzou. Not that it matters, or that I presume you care, or that I'm any kind of authority. But I'll opt for the "Like" button this time around. If nothing else, you challenge people's perspectives and cause them to think critically and defend their positions, for which there's a great deal to be said

Actually, I often wonder if you're, at least part of the time, merely playing devil's advocate for that sake in and of itself.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Learning boxing mechanics is easier= Boxing is a more efficient method of learning how to punch.

They can be designed to do whatever. If you're not actually breaking your partner's collarbone in practice with your collarbone breaking punch, that argument is pretty irrelevant.

Your statement "If you're not actually breaking your partner's collarbone in practice with your collarbone breaking punch, that argument is pretty irrelevant." If this is your logic then "If you're not actually boxing your partner in practice then your argument of boxing is more efficient method of learning how to punch is just as irrelevant."

That's right you don't study boxing, you do BJJ.

 

[Hanzou]

Your statement "If you're not actually breaking your partner's collarbone in practice with your collarbone breaking punch, that argument is pretty irrelevant." If this is your logic then "If you're not actually boxing your partner in practice then your argument of boxing is more efficient method of learning how to punch is just as irrelevant."

That's right you don't study boxing, you do BJJ.

I actually do study boxing. Not as much as I like, but I do attend a boxing gym every once in a while and go a few rounds in the ring. It's an excellent way to stay in shape.

That said, boxers do box their partners. It's called sparring, and boxers do it all the time. Sometimes people get knocked out in sparring.

 

[Drose427]

I actually do study boxing. Not as much as I like, but I do attend a boxing gym every once in a while and go a few rounds in the ring. It's an excellent way to stay in shape.

That said, boxers do box their partners. It's called sparring, and boxers do it all the time. Sometimes people get knocked out in sparring.

he didnt mean boxers he meant you spefically

Most people spar every night at their TMA class as well, and sometimes they get knocked out too

hard sparring it isnt exclusive to boxing/ Muay Thai/MMA no matter how hard you think it is

 

[elder999]

Learning boxing mechanics is easier= Boxing is a more efficient method of learning how to punch.

As someone who actually boxed, before he studied karate and all along, I have to say that no, "learning boxing mechanics" is not "easier......and, the key to efficiency in both types of punching is in the footwork and btai sabaki. The chambered punch, hip and/or shoulder movement of the punch in karate are isolation exercises meant to develop the efficient delivery of power.....

BTW, all the punches of western boxing are in Okinawan and Japanese karate.....

They can be designed to do whatever. If you're not actually breaking your partner's collarbone in practice with your collarbone breaking punch, that argument is pretty irrelevant.

As someone who has actually broken someone's collarbone, I gotta say you're F.O.S.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I actually do study boxing.

Not according to your response when I asked you what you studied.

 

[JowGaWolf]

As someone who actually boxed, before he studied karate and all along, I have to say that no, "learning boxing mechanics" is not "easier......and, the key to efficiency in both types of punching is in the footwork and btai sabaki. The chambered punch, hip and/or shoulder movement of the punch in karate are isolation exercises meant to develop the efficient delivery of power.....

BTW, all the punches of western boxing are in Okinawan and Japanese karate.....




As someone who has actually broken someone's collarbone, I gotta say you're F.O.S.

Hanzou only believes it's possible if we are the ones doing it. Correction only if he's the one doing it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

As someone who actually boxed, before he studied karate and all along, I have to say that no, "learning boxing mechanics" is not "easier

He failed to realize that there are more to boxing mechanics than just punching.

 

[ballen0351]

As someone who has actually broken someone's collarbone, I gotta say you're F.O.S.

Yep so have I and I agree. Although he guy kept saying I broke his Pancreas as he held his shoulder. So that was funny

 

[ballen0351]

The look the doc gave me when I took him in the ER was priceless. Doc says what's the problem officer as he sees the guy all stabalized by paramedics. I said he told me I broke his Pancreas. Doc says ok we will send him for x-ra....,,wait what?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Looks different.

I agree with you 100% there.

Many years ago, one day I suddenly realized that the way I trained in my forms are different from the way that I hit on my heavy bag, and also different from the way that I sparred. After that day, not only I don't punch as the way that I trained in my forms, I gave up all my form training completely.

I like to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. I see no reason to treat my training and my sparring differently. Today, I only train those drills that I have created by myself.

Even if the "long fist" system is one of my major systems, IMO, if the

- MT roundhouse kick is more powerful than the long fist roundhouse kick, and
- boxing punches is more powerful than the long fist punches,

I see no reason to switch to better training methods.

On the other hand, I still think the Shuai Chiao (Chinese wrestling) "single leg" is much more effective than the western wrestling "single leg". So I'm not an anti-TMA person after all. I just like to keep the best material whether it may come from my major systems, or it may come from elsewhere.

 

[Hanzou]

Most people spar every night at their TMA class as well, and sometimes they get knocked out too

hard sparring it isnt exclusive to boxing/ Muay Thai/MMA no matter how hard you think it is

I never said it was. I said that the idea that you have a punch that breaks the collarbone means little if you're not actually breaking collarbones when you practice it.

 

[ballen0351]

I never said it was. I said that the idea that you have a punch that breaks the collarbone means little if you're not actually breaking collarbones when you practice it.

That makes as much sense as saying an armbar means little if you don't break the arm

 

[Hanzou]

As someone who actually boxed, before he studied karate and all along, I have to say that no, "learning boxing mechanics" is not "easier......and, the key to efficiency in both types of punching is in the footwork and btai sabaki. The chambered punch, hip and/or shoulder movement of the punch in karate are isolation exercises meant to develop the efficient delivery of power.....

BTW, all the punches of western boxing are in Okinawan and Japanese karate.....

I know they are. The point is that the training methods surrounding the Okinawan and Japanese karate systems are inefficient compared to western boxing. Which is why modern combat sports adopted western boxing OVER the Asian systems. That was the case even in Asia itself.

Why? Because western boxing simply had the better method. Heck, we just had a discussion where a punch you practice in karate over and over again for years is effectively the wrong way to punch. That's an inefficient method of training.

As someone who has actually broken someone's collarbone, I gotta say you're F.O.S.

You broke someone's collarbone with a punch that you practiced? Interesting.

That makes as much sense as saying an armbar means little if you don't break the arm

A joint lock is different than a strike.

Not according to your response when I asked you what you studied.

Because unlike Bjj, it's not something that I do on a regular basis.

 

[elder999]

You broke someone's collarbone with a punch that you practiced? Interesting.


.

More than once, actually....it's kind of a "go to" for me, along with the carotid sinus....what's so "interesting" about that?
(Note @Hanzou : if you can break five boards with a hammerfist, you can pretty much snap a collarbone.)

 

[Argus]

I know they are. The point is that the training methods surrounding the Okinawan and Japanese karate systems are inefficient compared to western boxing. Which is why modern sports adopted western boxing OVER the Asian systems. That was the case even in Asia itself.

Why? Because western boxing simply had the better method. Heck, we just had a discussion where a punch you practice in karate over and over again for years is effectively the wrong way to punch. That's an inefficient method of training.



You broke someone's collarbone with a punch that you practiced? Interesting.

Is the best method for most people who compete in the ring the best method for all people in any context?

Take, for example, myself. Now, I definitely don't claim that I'm better than anyone else on average -- as if such a measurement could even be made, or made meaningfully. But I find that the specific TMA's that I study fit my psychology and learning style far better than most sportive arts such as western boxing, or even some contrasting TMAs that I appreciate but nonetheless don't practice. And while I don't have anything against such arts, I simply feel that the particular TMA methods that I study cater better to my learning style, and my natural skills, goals, psychology, and physiology. I do consider myself a bit of an oddity in this respect, and I see where many people struggle with or get hung up on the very methods that I find helpful, however.

I think that there's much to be said for practicing the martial art(s) that are most in line with your particular learning style, general psychology, and/or goals, and that some tend excel in styles that others simply don't, and vice versa. And for that reason (and others), I think it's very important to get as wide and diverse an experience in the martial arts as you can, in order to learn about yourself and how you can better reach your goals and potential.

All arts have something to offer. And all arts offer something better for some people than others.

 

[ballen0351]

A joint lock is harder to pull off correctly then a strike. I'd bet most average adults in relatively good shape are strong enough to break a collar bone. I don't need to break them in training to know I'm powerful enough to do it when I need to

 

[JowGaWolf]

A joint lock is harder to pull off correctly then a strike. I'd bet most average adults in relatively good shape are strong enough to break a collar bone. I don't need to break them in training to know I'm powerful enough to do it when I need to

Not true... how do you know you can break a finger if you have never broken one before it only counts if you have actually done it. oops... I've been listening to bad logic lately from hanzou lol.