Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[JowGaWolf]

Take for example traditional karate and kung fu hand techniques vs. modern boxing. It's a pretty rare thing to see someone throw a reverse punch while sparring. However, seeing Karateka and traditional Kung Fu practitioners fighting like amateur kick boxers is a very common thing.

Drose427 is correct. Reverse punches are thrown all the time.

A 1,2, jab combination uses the reverse punch.

Here is another video showing the reverse Reverse punch used in kung fu sparring thrown by 3 different people 3 different ways

The reverse punch is often the fighters power hand. The reason why some Kung Fu practitioners fight like amateur kick boxers is because those people don't know how to use their techniques in a live fight. In these cases the technique isn't the problem, the fighter is.

Chambered fists are done in kata and form practice only (this includes punching drills).

 

[elder999]

Chambered fists are done in kata and form practice only (this includes punching drills).

Oh, you've done it now...(counting, 5.4.3.2.1..."How come they don't fight the way they practice in Because boxing is better." )

 

[TSDTexan]

Rogan wasn't saying that TMAs never spar. He said that TMAs don't push out "frivolous" techniques, or techniques that don't really work very well in favor of better techniques. That practice can result from a martial art that lacks sparring, a martial art that adheres too closely to its roots, or a combination of both.

Take for example traditional karate and kung fu hand techniques vs. modern boxing. It's a pretty rare thing to see someone throw a reverse punch while sparring. However, seeing Karateka and traditional Kung Fu practitioners fighting like amateur kick boxers is a very common thing.



Well, that claim is a bit harder to substantiate, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Thats the odd thing. The only time I have hit some in anger was with 3 alternating reverse punches, chambered from the hip. Thats was on a basketball court and I should have just walked away.
But he was knocked down and regreting it.
And I was kind of shocked because I didn't really intend punch him.

 

[Hanzou]

Drose427 is correct. Reverse punches are thrown all the time.

A 1,2, jab combination uses the reverse punch.

Here is another video showing the reverse Reverse punch used in kung fu sparring thrown by 3 different people 3 different ways

The reverse punch is often the fighters power hand. The reason why some Kung Fu practitioners fight like amateur kick boxers is because those people don't know how to use their techniques in a live fight. In these cases the technique isn't the problem, the fighter is.

Chambered fists are done in kata and form practice only (this includes punching drills).

Let's make sure we're talking about the same punch here;




That is a reverse punch.

You really shouldn't train a punch like that if the goal is to perform a straight/cross punch. You're talking about two entirely different punches. If your goal is to perform a straight/cross punch, train the straight/cross punch.

Thats the odd thing. The only time I have hit some in anger was with 3 alternating reverse punches, chambered from the hip. Thats was on a basketball court and I should have just walked away.
But he was knocked down and regreting it.
And I was kind of shocked because I didn't really intend punch him.

Didn't you also say that your master saved you from six "ninjas" who attacked you in a parking lot?

 

[kuniggety]

Didn't you also say that your master saved you from six "ninjas" who attacked you in a parking lot?

As someone who lives in Japan, I can tell you that ninjas are a very real threat. Luckily, I have an attuned spidey-sense that has prevented my assassination.

 

[TSDTexan]

Let's make sure we're talking about the same punch here;




That is a reverse punch.

You really shouldn't train a punch like that if the goal is to perform a straight/cross punch. You're talking about two entirely different punches. If your goal is to perform a straight/cross punch, train the straight/cross punch.



Didn't you also say that your master saved you from six "ninjas" who attacked you in a parking lot?

No. Not ninjas.
Common teen thugs street gang trash... on a street.

These two incidents were many years apart.
One was about winter 1990.. somewhere.

The other was about '02 or '03.

Your disbelief and mocking tone.... make me regret trying to share with you.

And yes that punch.

And the basketball incident is my biggest failure.

 

[Drose427]

Let's make sure we're talking about the same punch here;




That is a reverse punch.

You really shouldn't train a punch like that if the goal is to perform a straight/cross punch. You're talking about two entirely different punches. If your goal is to perform a straight/cross punch, train the straight/cross punch.



Didn't you also say that your master saved you from six "ninjas" who attacked you in a parking lot?

A Reverse Punch doesnt have to chamber at the waist to be a reverse punch..
Thats what youre missing here

Its the rotation(generally at the finish) and coming back to starting position(which can be the shoulder) that qualifies it as a reverse punch.

Most point tournaments have an entire seminar before the event on this

The only difference between a boxing straight right and a reverse punch in application (not kata) is the timing of the rotation

 

[Hanzou]

A Reverse Punch doesnt have to chamber at the waist to be a reverse punch..
Thats what youre missing here

Its the rotation(generally at the finish) and coming back to starting position(which can be the shoulder) that qualifies it as a reverse punch.

Most point tournaments have an entire seminar before the event on this

The only difference between a boxing straight right and a reverse punch in application (not kata) is the timing of the rotation

So why is there a difference between a boxing straight and a reverse punch in kata and drilling?

Again, wouldn't the more efficient method be to simply teach the boxing straight?

 

[TSDTexan]

So why is there a difference between a boxing straight and a reverse punch in kata and drilling?

Again, wouldn't the more efficient method be to simply teach the boxing straight?

Different fundamentals.
Weighted fist with serious follow through on impact versus unweighted fist with retraction upon impact. Also distance ranges berween striker and target are very different.

And this is also how it is done on the traditional striking target in old karate and Tou-Te... furthermore the chamber or hitake isn't what you think it is. Its a grabing traping hand.

 

[TSDTexan]

.

 

[Drose427]

So why is there a difference between a boxing straight and a reverse punch in kata and drilling?

Again, wouldn't the more efficient method be to simply teach the boxing straight?

Again, the only difference in application is the timing of the rotation

it is taught that way for sparring.

We've explained why forms have such exaggeration and deep elongated stances in the past over and over and over again.

they arent, and never were, meant to be a perfect representation of fighting

 

[Drose427]

Different fundamentals.
Weighted fist with serious follow through on impact versus unweighted fist with retraction upon impact. Also distance ranges berween striker and target are very different.

And this is also how it is done on the traditional striking target in old karate and Tou-Te... furthermore the chamber or hitake isn't what you think it is. Its a grabing traping hand.

Dont even try to bring up applications/interpretations.

We've been down that road before and dont need to have another 40 pages that ends in personal attacks

 

[JowGaWolf]

Thats the odd thing. The only time I have hit some in anger was with 3 alternating reverse punches, chambered from the hip. Thats was on a basketball court and I should have just walked away.
But he was knocked down and regreting it.
And I was kind of shocked because I didn't really intend punch him.

Was your fist chambered like the lady's picture below? Or did you throw a punch from the hip like the video below? To me the definition of a chambered fist is like how the lady is holding her fist next to the body. Punching from a chambered fist helps the student learn correct punching form and how to correctly generate power for punches. To fight with a fist chambered like that is dangerous. It might be something you can get away with if you throw the first punch but you'll need that hand to help with defense once kicks and punches start flying,

 

[JowGaWolf]

Let's make sure we're talking about the same punch here;




That is a reverse punch.

You really shouldn't train a punch like that if the goal is to perform a straight/cross punch. You're talking about two entirely different punches. If your goal is to perform a straight/cross punch, train the straight/cross punch.



Didn't you also say that your master saved you from six "ninjas" who attacked you in a parking lot?

A reverse punch is just a punch where you aren't punching with your lead hand. The gif that you have are punching drills. The purpose of this drill to learn how to throw a punch correctly. The reverse punch is not the same as a cross.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Again, the only difference in application is the timing of the rotation

it is taught that way for sparring.

We've explained why forms have such exaggeration and deep elongated stances in the past over and over and over again.

they arent, and never were, meant to be a perfect representation of fighting

I thought the "What's a reverse punch?" question was answered already too.

 

[Drose427]

I thought the "What's a reverse punch?" question was answered already too.

Well we had a thread, but I wasnt sure hanzou stopped by to see it

 

[Hanzou]

Different fundamentals.
Weighted fist with serious follow through on impact versus unweighted fist with retraction upon impact. Also distance ranges berween striker and target are very different.

Which is to be expected since they are two entirely different punches.

You also didn't answer my question.

And this is also how it is done on the traditional striking target in old karate and Tou-Te... furthermore the chamber or hitake isn't what you think it is. Its a grabing traping hand.

It can be a grabbing/trapping hand. However it never really is because the timing and power necessary to pull something like that off is pretty close to fantasy.

 

[Drose427]

Which is to be expected since they are two entirely different punches.

You also didn't answer my question.



It can be a grabbing/trapping hand. However it never really is because the timing and power necessary to pull something like that off is pretty close to fantasy.

We've explained this movment too......

You arent yanking them from that far off..

 

[TSDTexan]

Was your fist chambered like the lady's picture below? Or did you throw a punch from the hip like the video below? To me the definition of a chambered fist is like how the lady is holding her fist next to the body. Punching from a chambered fist helps the student learn correct punching form and how to correctly generate power for punches. To fight with a fist chambered like that is dangerous. It might be something you can get away with if you throw the first punch but you'll need that hand to help with defense once kicks and punches start flying,

Well the sequence was 4 repeated instances of hard charging right through me. I was set in position. He knocked me down, I said foul. Neither team gave me my free throws. Inbound and repeat.
The fourth time I told him if you try to charge me like that again... its going to get serious.
He took a pass.. and drove towards me.
I pivoted down in to a deep horse stance and shoved him off after he impacted unforeseen resistance.
This led to him reentering to shove me.
Rather than getting into a shoving match. I pulled, as I was firing three alternating reverse punches.

The first was low on the hip, second and third didnt have time for the full low chamber. They were high rib chambers like Motobu Choki modeled. A guarding chamber.

My greatest regret is that I could have walked off the court instead of dropping the gauntlet on the fourth charge.

I didn't have to play street ball. I escalated.
I didn't like being knocked down by a twenty year old.
Definitely had a huge ego.

 

[Hanzou]

Again, the only difference in application is the timing of the rotation

As well as the hand placement, and the entire stance.

it is taught that way for sparring.

Would that be because the traditional way was found to be ineffective I
While sparring?

We've explained why forms have such exaggeration and deep elongated stances in the past over and over and over again.

they arent, and never were, meant to be a perfect representation of fighting

Then why do it? We don't see boxers doing chambered reverse punches in order to learn how to do a straight. They simply practice the straight.