Joe Rogan smack talking TMA's like kung fu

[Hanzou]

But of course that means that the entire style was dominated based on a single sparring session by a visiting instructor without any clear context.I guess Turkish wrestling must be better than Aikido.

Therefore it must also be better than BJJ:

Where did I say that Turkish wrestling was better than Aikido? I simply said that situations like that vid don't help with Aikido's perception.

Additionally, I never said the entire system was dominated, I said that Aikidoka was dominated.

 

[Hanzou]

so if I double leg a Jiu-Jitiero, and put him on his back I've completely dominated him?

Cool

If you put him on his back and he's tapping in a matter of seconds?

Absolutely.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Additionally, I never said the entire system was dominated, I said that Aikidoka was dominated.

I refer you to your previous statement;

Typically in demonstrations between two styles, one style doesn't completely dominate the other.

In the video I posted that BJJer was dominated.

 

[TSDTexan]

Anderson silver could probably make akido work.

Who has Steven segal fought again? I forget.

Tell me why an instructor's own fight record actually matters.
The Art founder accepted duels... such as the one with a navy officer and won using aikido.

Fight record really doesn't count much as evidence unless it is a loosing fight record.

And then, its value as evidence counts more against an exponent of an art, rather than the art itself.

Also, there is a parallel here. Just because a person is a great fighter, and exponent of a given art... it does not automatically follow that they can effectively teach.

The fact that the alleged world's best fighter was for a time training with a highly ranked akidoka instructor should be evidence that there is more than smoke there.

 

[Hanzou]

I refer you to your previous statement;

You clearly missed the context.

In the video I posted that BJJer was dominated.

Not really. The Bjjer at least put up a fight. Keep in mind, the Aikidoka was subbed, reset and subbed again in less time of that entire grappling match.

Further, I'm not hearing of any Turkish wrestlers dominating any major Bjj competitions or competitors, so your argument is kind of pointless. If a Turkish wrestler was subbing Marcelo Garcia, Kron Gracie, or Keenan, we'd have an argument here.

 

[RTKDCMB]

so your argument is kind of pointless.

As is yours.

 

[Hanzou]

As is yours.

Again, my argument was simply that videos like the one I showed simply reinforces negative views of Aikido's effectiveness.

 

[Xue Sheng]

 

[Drose427]

Tapping someone out in drills versus tapping someone out in fighting are two different things.

Only if you're drilling incorrectly.

Drilling should be like going live, except when I run something right, its your turn to try

Thats wrestling 101, I'd be very surprised if BJJ wasnt the same way

 

[drop bear]

He didn't lose to the Turkish wrestler, it was clearly just a demonstration of his abilities. If you notice, the Aikido students did not have the reaction they would have if their instructor was being shown up by a visiting fighter. They were applauding every time the wrestler got the upper hand so unless their instructor was not very well liked in his own class it was just a demonstration of wrestling.

How are you supposed to react?

We would be a whole room of very impressed people..

 

[drop bear]

Tapping someone out in drills versus tapping someone out in fighting are two different things.

Not if you do akido.

(See what I did there?)

 

[Drose427]

Not if you do akido.

(See what I did there?)

Well to be fair,

Even in wrestling its the same. If its not, you're drilling wrong

 

[elder999]

Can't find one for simply "not knowing the subject," but this also applies.

 

[drop bear]

Tell me why an instructor's own fight record actually matters.
The Art founder accepted duels... such as the one with a navy officer and won using aikido.

Fecord really doesn't count much as evidence unless it is a loosing fight record.

And then, its value as evidence counts more against an exponent of an art, rather than the art itself.

Also, there is a parallel here. Just because a person is a great fighter, and exponent of a given art... it does not automatically follow that they can effectively teach.

The fact that the alleged world's best fighter was for a time training with a highly ranked akidoka instructor should be evidence that there is more than smoke there.

The correct answer was kelly lebrock.

Otherwise the two days of training has been outed as a publicity stunt and Anderson Silva did know how to kick people in the head before he trained with Steven segal. So it was all smoke.

So Steven segal as no fight record to be proud of and has not trained any fighters. And I doubt you will see him sparring anybody any time soon or mixing it up with other systems.

All of that is fine. (Except for the Kelly lebrock thing) People train what they want for their own reasons. But you can't expected to earn the respect of a martial artist that is willing to put their reputation on the line by not putting yours.

I am not going to tolerate your fantasys if you enable mine. That is not mutual respect.

I will ground you in reality and graciously accept you grounding me through adversity. That is mutual respect.

And that is the Joe rogan point of humbleness even though commenting on the failings of a martial art.

 

[drop bear]

Well to be fair,

Even in wrestling its the same. If its not, you're drilling wrong

Yeah but nobody is going to prop themselves up in wrestling by saying they tapped someone in a drill.

Because they don't consider that a real test of effectiveness.

 

[Drose427]

Yeah but nobody is going to prop themselves up in wrestling by saying they tapped someone in a drill.

Because they don't consider that a real test of effectiveness.

If you cant do it in drilling, you can do it in a fight though

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I am not going to tolerate your fantasys if you enable mine. That is not mutual respect.

I will ground you in reality and graciously accept you grounding me through adversity. That is mutual respect.

And that is the Joe rogan point of humbleness even though commenting on the failings of a martial art.

Joe could simply say he prefers training in a system with "alive practice" and that is his preference rather than bagging on all the styles he does. In the end, in this situation he comes across as a jerk!

 

[Steve]

But does anyone really disagree with the idea here? After how many pages, it still seems like we all agree with the idea that there is bad training. And we all seem to mostly agree with what constitutes bad training.

The sticking point seems to be a matter of ratio. Contact and pressure testing are essential. how much is the minimum? How is the student's skill level tested to ensure proficiency?

Some styles seem to pressure test less often. And those styles get picked on a little. But inevitably, the people who defend these styles don't argue against pressure testing or contact. They instead allege to be among the minority who train with contact.

Hopefully this makes sense. I'm typing on a phone, so please forgive odd spellings.

 

[TSDTexan]

Joe could simply say he prefers training in a system with "alive practice" and that is his preference rather than bagging on all the styles he does. In the end, in this situation he comes across as a jerk!

You put it perfectly.

 

[TSDTexan]

But does anyone really disagree with the idea here? After how many pages, it still seems like we all agree with the idea that there is bad training. And we all seem to mostly agree with what constitutes bad training.

The sticking point seems to be a matter of ratio. Contact and pressure testing are essential. how much is the minimum? How is the student's skill level tested to ensure proficiency?

Some styles seem to pressure test less often. And those styles get picked on a little. But inevitably, the people who defend these styles don't argue against pressure testing or contact. They instead allege to be among the minority who train with contact.

Hopefully this makes sense. I'm typing on a phone, so please forgive odd spellings.

Steve... Don't be a wet blanket on a lively feed Bro.

Every one has a voice to speak on the subjects.